If you could replace LFR with something better what would it be?

[Aggrophobic]

Wuold be better for the game why? Still the legend that if there is not LFR people will mass move to Normal raiding and suddenly become better players? I believe a lot will just move to another game, or don't raid at all like it was pre-LFR.

I doubt it. The game did better and had way more subscribers when LFR was not a thing.

[JohnnyMccrum]

DIFFICULTY

0) streamline raids so that there is only one difficulty
1) the raid has bosses optional bosses which range in difficulty.
2) you may not be able to kill every boss.
3) bosses will gear-check and kill anyone lower than requirements instantly.

DESIGN

4) dungeon design is now closer to Karazhan, Maraudon.
5) optional but difficult bosses. (alagon)
6) sub-bosses which are easier fights
7) I would lock content behind bosses, such as gear vendors, or important quest givers.
8) I would lock bosses behind other bosses.
9) I would make it so the raid has to split up, i.e only hunters can go down this area and perform this mechanic.

DUNGEONS

10) make dungeons harder.
11) hardmode switches in dungeons that reward better gear.
12) it wouldn't be uncommon to be unable to down a hardmode boss.
13) best gear obtainable being on-par with raid-entry.

MOTIVATION

14) You will never see raids if you're not skilled enough,
15) people will work towards the goal of entering the raid.
16) buying gear from the AH is no longer an option.

WORLD PROGRESSION

17) Professions and world content offer soulbound upgrades.
18) gear pieces are locked behind reputation vendors, with this working like classic argent dawn.
19) difficult solo quests (class, race based) which allow you access to good gear.
20) class mastery is a requirement.
21) raid and dungeon attunements locked behind factions

LFR REPLACEMENT

22) based within the emerald nightmare.
23) aims to recapture the initial leveling rush/experience.
24) think of it like Alterac Valley but exclusively PVE, ironman, the leveling rush and battle royale combined.
25) group of 40 1-110 players are scaled to max level.
26) you enter the nightmare with no gear at all.
27) no health regeneration, no mana regeneration.
28) You need to kill difficult mobs using your abilities to get any gear or consumables, probably greys at first.
29) if you die you exit the nightmare and lose your progression.
30) you get things like trinkets which have on use abilities, or items that enhance your own abilities.
31) trading with other people is required, you need to do this to get gear specific for your class.
32) professions (mining, herbalism, alchemy, blacksmithing) and crafting are available within the nightmare.
33) if you want to do professions, it's possible to get raid invites by becoming a gear donkey.
34) grouping with other players is pretty much required to actually take down the bosses.
35) it's a group effort to communicate, grind, gear up eachother, learn your class, forced to be engaged.
36) you are not forced to group with the ungeared guy that is partially afk, he is useless anyway.
37) a group of 3-4 players will combine with another group of 3-4 players to take down a boss which requires 8 players.
when the boss that requires 8 players is dead, more of the total area opens up, boss that requires 16 players (or 8 seriously geared players) is unlocked.

[Deleted]

I doubt it. The game did better and had way more subscribers when LFR was not a thing.

Oh yeah LFR and loss of subscribers is a scientifically proven connection based on solid facts. I mean, what else in this world happens at the same time but have no connection whatsoever? For example everyone knows that WWII was caused because Siam changed is name in Thailand in 24 june 1939.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Personally, I believe most of the players running LFR would be happier in casual guilds running Normal.
I understand, however, that many are skittish about joining a guild, whether their reasons are justified or not.
That is, I am not questioning whether their reasons make sense to them, just saying I think most would be happily surprised by finding the right guild and would be glad to have made the transition.

[Noah37]

If I could fix it, and this would be a really hard system to implement, but I'd like a tracker of sorts that watches players activity during LFR. Basically, if someone is constantly dying/taking damage from avoidable mechanics, AFKing, or just generally not participating in a way that helps the group. I'd like for the system to kind of mark them and incrementally decrease their chance for loot down like 10-15% below the average or something. Just a small penalty for going in and not trying, and something that could easily be avoided. But again, this would be insanely hard to implement correctly.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

1) Pick a towel or a piece of paper

2) Stick it on your computer screen chat corner

4) That prevents you to see the chat even if you don't want to turn it off

5) LFR is not toxic anymore, on contrary a smooth ride between easy bosses and nice loot

6) Profit

I barely see any drama in LFR or any toxicity. First of all, it's so hard to mess up people doesn't even bother writing in chat but just speed trough bosses. Second, even if the gruop sucks and wipe a lot, replacament are atomated and fast, just a matter to "renew" the rotten apples.

Oh and pro-tip: it's not LFR that is toxic, but WoW players in general. Call me when you pug a Hc raid full of wipes, then we will talk about toxicity.

But why play a game where you have to cover part of your screen or pug a raid full of wipes? When you can raid with friends who all laugh together, get your progression out of the way early each tier, and enjoy smooth farm runs for the rest of the patch? Even after switching to alts, because it's still the same players and you all learned the fights together?

One way is stressful and slow - LFR takes longer than Heroic with my guild - while the other is chill and relatively easy.

[Teri]

AFK just hurt Antorus LFR more then anything as the health is like over 10 times that from Emerald Nightmare, and like double that of ToS LFR.

Some Trash mobs in Antorus have like more health then EN bosses.

DPS of the average LFR person did not go up 10-12 times from EN to Antorus, usually there's heroic+ raiders that carry.

But later in the week it can be very random results, and deaths to Argus LFR due to Enrage for example.

[Deleted]

Personally, I believe most of the players running LFR would be happier in casual guilds running Normal.
I understand, however, that many are skittish about joining a guild, whether their reasons are justified or not.
That is, I am not questioning whether their reasons make sense to them, just saying I think most would be happily surprised by finding the right guild and would be glad to have made the transition.

My friend, i know that it's 10o times better to raid with a guild. I raided all kind of difficulty (Hc and modern Mythic also), but i love that LFR exist and i love that it's easy, fast and doesnt require hard concentration. It's just a choice that hurts noone. If a player feels the need to step up, he will, LFR or not. I am one of those people. At moment i can't afford (and partially i don't want the commitment) to join a raiding guild, that's all. In those time i am happy LFR is around, i am happy it drops Tier (specially because they are good looking) and happy it's easy and fast. Sorry, but i still can't see a single reason why LFR is a detriment for the game or for established raiders. Maybe they lose 30 minute because of legendary drop or tier or a chance of warforged trinket? Sorry, i don't see this as a big deal.

[HuxNeva]

The vote-kick system works just fine in LFR, and I see it regularly used to show people the door when they're afking a fight (doing sub-100k DPS with no attacks but autoattack registered on Recount) or trolling the raid by pulling bosses early/misdirecting onto healers/etc. Again, it's almost like you're exaggerating the situation in order to make your position seem more tenable rather than being intellectually-honest at the expense of looking like an asshole.

You mean the trolls that yell in chat 'kick the afk rogue', and sneakily put up a kick for the main tank knowing very well people will just agree to whatever kick dialog comes up?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Sorry, i don't see this as a big deal.

For the record, I don't care if some want to run LFR and am not campaigning to have it removed. In my experience it does take longer than pugging N, and way longer than raiding H with a guild group.

[Mirishka]

Or, its LFR players that are the problem by being afk because "lul the tryhard will just do it for me, fuck you no-lifer carry me" mentality that plagues LFR that makes it a problem.

All my wipes in Legion LFR were from LFR only players being fully on AFK, not because they "didnt have the gear or DPS or time".

Its simply the mentality "Just give me the loot".

LFR needs to get removed completely and replaced with some sort of solo-scenario were NPCs tank/mechanics for people to see the story/fights etc etc.

Or turned back to its original state were a few bosses require some learning at least.

Right out removing all abilities and making the rest hit for 10% of the actual ability is pointless.

And I've seen LFRs where the overgeared try-hards are the ones AFK, or the ones in the wrong spec, etc. There's lazy assholes at every skill level.

Generalization is bad, mmkay?

[ydraw]

I doubt it. The game did better and had way more subscribers when LFR was not a thing.

The game had no competition then.

[Deleted]

Very simple. Remove LFR difficulty.

Launch LFR same week with Mythic. and you can queue for normal and heroic with LFR but you need to have killed everything in the raid before you can queue. Then in the next Tier. Open Mythic LFR for previous tier. with the requirement that you need to have killed everything before you can queue

[ydraw]

Personally, I believe most of the players running LFR would be happier in casual guilds running Normal. .

This assumes that all those people can make scheduled raid times. The vast majority of people cannot, which is why PUGging is by far the most popular way to complete all forms of content in the game.

[Mirishka]

But why play a game where you have to cover part of your screen or pug a raid full of wipes? When you can raid with friends who all laugh together, get your progression out of the way early each tier, and enjoy smooth farm runs for the rest of the patch? Even after switching to alts, because it's still the same players and you all learned the fights together?

One way is stressful and slow - LFR takes longer than Heroic with my guild - while the other is chill and relatively easy.

This is an anecdotal experience. Heroic is not chill and relatively easy for every group, nor is LFR slow and miserable every time. I've been in wings that were over in 20min because people did what they were supposed to do. Nor does every player have enough friends for a fun, breezy clear through heroic.

Of course some LFR runs are miserable and awful, but then... so are many N/H PuGs.

[ydraw]

You mean the trolls that yell in chat 'kick the afk rogue', and sneakily put up a kick for the main tank knowing very well people will just agree to whatever kick dialog comes up?

You know that just one person initiating a kick does not bring up any dialog in LFR right?

At least 5 people have to initiate the vote on the same person for the dialog to even appear.

[Deleted]

For the record, I don't care if some want to run LFR and am not campaigning to have it removed. In my experience it does take longer than pugging N, and way longer than raiding H with a guild group.

Yeah sure, i agree! Have experienced this on my skin while in WoD i raided Mythic, clearing HFC Hc was so fast, in comparison LFR was eternal (tons of HP) XD

[Mirishka]

No, removing it would be better for the game. People that want it removed care about the direction and quality of the game.

Then they should want LFR because the vastly increased numbers of people seeing that content justifies Blizzard spending the money that they do on creating it. And that's per Blizzard.

In case that wasn't clear, any moron screaming 'GET RID OF LFR LOLZ' from the rafters is advocating, intentionally or not, for a reduction in the budget/resources spent on raid content.

- - - Updated - - -

You know that just one person initiating a kick does not bring up any dialog in LFR right?

At least 5 people have to initiate the vote on the same person for the dialog to even appear.

Beat me to it.

[Fal]

My perfect solution for an LFR replacement would be to make it a 5 man queueable thing.
About the difficulty of normal but with slightly lesser rewards (5-10) ilvls lower or perhaps disabling titanforging for the difficulty but base drops is same as normal.

Casuals want to see the raid content but no one wants to be in a mass of 25 randoms where nothing you do matters. Lower the group size, keep it easyish but make people do something that matters and everyone wins.

[Thage]

You mean the trolls that yell in chat 'kick the afk rogue', and sneakily put up a kick for the main tank knowing very well people will just agree to whatever kick dialog comes up?

As someone else already mentioned, it takes 5 votes to initiate a vote-kick specifically to avoid situations like this one, which led to a drastic drop-off once it was implemented. Again, the vote-kick system works just fine in LFR.

- - - Updated - - -

I doubt it. The game did better and had way more subscribers when LFR was not a thing.

Outside WoD's massive losses, WoW has followed a bell curve typical of any long-running product, and pre-Cataclysm WoW was pretty much unchallenged in the MMO market. Since then, numerous big- and small-project MMORPGs have come to the fore, chipping away at WoW's audience on top of the standard attrition from the game being a decade old.