BFA tank homogenisation

[styil]

Sigma has confirmed in a recent Blizzard post that the tank homogenisation seen on BFA alpha is in fact intended:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...2287277#post-9

All tanks will boil down to having an AGI/STR ---> armor button and very limited magic mitigation tools. I think that this is the wrong way to go and makes tanking extremely one-dimensional. Tank balance will simply boil down to whose 1 button is better.

Legion arguably had the worst tank balance in the history of WoW, but BFA is shaping up to be far worse. Putting all the tuning eggs into a 1 button basket is going to amplify the smallest of imbalances. All classes are going to play exactly the same, and the power of utility is going to be amplified.

And with Blizzard's hands-off approach when it comes to tank balance, expect an entire expansion with 2x the tank with the best 1 mitigation button.

I am genuinely horrified at the direction tanking is heading in BFA.

[Nevcairiel]

Please, thats so far from what he said. And you wonder why people criticize negative threads, because they twist the facts to fit their own personal agenda of FUD.

All tanks use armor, thats hardly news. All tanks gain armor through their primary stat in 8.0 in some shape or form (in some cases a passive). That doesn't dictate their playstyle or how they actually mitigate most of the damage, nor does it mean they are limited to one button.

[Thenatural]

Sigma has confirmed in a recent Blizzard post that the tank homogenisation seen on BFA alpha is in fact intended:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...2287277#post-9

All tanks will boil down to having an AGI/STR ---> armor button and very limited magic mitigation tools. I think that this is the wrong way to go and makes tanking extremely one-dimensional. Tank balance will simply boil down to whose 1 button is better.

Legion arguably had the worst tank balance in the history of WoW, but BFA is shaping up to be far worse. Putting all the tuning eggs into a 1 button basket is going to amplify the smallest of imbalances. All classes are going to play exactly the same, and the power of utility is going to be amplified.

And with Blizzard's hands-off approach when it comes to tank balance, expect an entire expansion with 2x the tank with the best 1 mitigation button.

I am genuinely horrified at the direction tanking is heading in BFA.

Weird because some one the best tanks currently playing the game disagree with you and that sentiment wholeheartedly. Watch any slootbag VoD. He is very critical about a lot of design choices and this isn't one of them.

Judging by your post history you are just looking to stir up trouble. Get a life and stop trying to make people justify your doubts.

[Cosmic Janitor]

If all are the same how can they all be imbalanced and different?
You're grasping at straws. It's either one or the other and currently there seem to be some very clear differences to tanks and the area of the game you apply them to.

[ReD-EyeD]

Legion arguably had the worst tank balance in the history of WoW

You lost me here.
Tanking balance is not perfect in Legion, but it's the BEST we have had so far. Every single tank is viable in any content (excluding extremes like esport mythics and top 10 raiding).

People just mimicking flavors of the month without second thought and it can make you think that something is much more op than the others.

The only thing that blizzard is balancing in BFA is self-sustain of dks, dhs and warriors. There should not be tanks that don't require healers at all and it's a right decision. And shield of the rightousness for paladins of course. But thats because of magic damage mitigation nerfs.

[Polarthief]

You lost me here.
Tanking balance is not perfect in Legion, but it's the BEST we have had so far. Every single tank is viable in any content (excluding extremes like esport mythics and top 10 raiding).

Except for like Vanilla/BC, every tank was viable in any "non-extreme content", and most were usually fine in "extreme content".

The fact that you exclude the extremes proves how shit the balance is right now. Guardians are amazing at physical mitigation; DKs are amazing at anything that doesn't outright kill them. The balance is beyond terrible and you're just proving the point.

OT: I'm all for homogenization if it's for the sake of balance. Most tanks had a weird button rotation followed by a choice of two spenders; they're pretty homogenized atm anyways.

[Donald Hellscream]

Meh, playing a blood death knight nothing has really changed besides bone shield now increasing armor rather than providing flat % dmg reduction, while it with the shit starter gear on alpha amounts to roughly a 10% dmg reduction down from the 16% in Legion it does scale with gear since the amount of armor it gives is based on a 60% of your str with means with better gear the damage reduction will increase due to the better gear having more str.

[Nevcairiel]

The fact that you exclude the extremes proves how shit the balance is right now.

The "Extreme" will never be balanced in any area, be it tanking, healing or dps, since players in those areas will seek out every little advantage they can, no matter how miniscule it is. They won't stop to rotate out classes for every single encounter based on strength and weaknesses of classes/specs. That doesn't mean we should have perfectly identical classes/specs across the board, because variety is important, and for 99.99% of all players its also perfectly fine. Anyone that doesn't understand that yet and uses that to try to argue for shit balance is just deluding themselves.

[SoulSoBreezy]

Sigma has confirmed in a recent Blizzard post that the tank homogenisation seen on BFA alpha is in fact intended:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...2287277#post-9

All tanks will boil down to having an AGI/STR ---> armor button and very limited magic mitigation tools. I think that this is the wrong way to go and makes tanking extremely one-dimensional. Tank balance will simply boil down to whose 1 button is better.

Legion arguably had the worst tank balance in the history of WoW, but BFA is shaping up to be far worse. Putting all the tuning eggs into a 1 button basket is going to amplify the smallest of imbalances. All classes are going to play exactly the same, and the power of utility is going to be amplified.

And with Blizzard's hands-off approach when it comes to tank balance, expect an entire expansion with 2x the tank with the best 1 mitigation button.

I am genuinely horrified at the direction tanking is heading in BFA.

This is one of the many cases where the whole darn statement ought to be front and center.

A few things about tank mitigation that came up in this discussion:

Magic mitigation, outside of major cooldowns like Shield Wall, is generally much lower this expansion. This is intended: the distinction between physical and magical damage is less "these are two parallel things that sometimes require different buttons" and more "this damage is different because it pierces many of your defenses." While tanks can still have some variance in the anti-magic tools, those tools are fewer than in the past and cap out at smaller amounts of mitigation.

Related to this, active mitigation is also making use of armor as a mechanic more often. There are a few reasons for this:
--It makes primary stat more important on tanks. So far in alpha, every tank except Brewmaster has an active or passive effect that turns primary stat into armor. This brings more consistency to the value of ilvl upgrades and other effects that increase primary stat. (TBD exactly how to handle this on Brewmaster)
--It allows us to make use of the fact that more difficult enemies (for example, endgame content later in the expansion) can demand more armor to reach a par level of mitigation (for theorycraft types--the "armor constant" can increase). This again allows for gear progression while keeping armor-related effects balanced at different tiers of content.

Block works similarly to armor. Its effectiveness now increases as you equip higher-ilvl shields with higher block value. Its effectiveness (as a %) decreases as you fight enemies that are meant for stronger gear. In particular, this makes a shield a more significant upgrade than it used to be, for the specs that use them.

In both of the above cases (armor and block), the plan is for the % mitigation they provide to remain roughly constant over the expansion, when in par gear for the content you are doing. Your % will be higher anytime your gear is ahead of the curve, and lower if your gear is behind.

[Pooti]

Maybe it is me, but I feel like he never did explain why your block DR% goes down when you use Shield of the Righteous.

[Polarthief]

The "Extreme" will never be balanced in any area, be it tanking, healing or dps, since players in those areas will seek out every little advantage they can, no matter how miniscule it is. They won't stop to rotate out classes for every single encounter based on strength and weaknesses of classes/specs. That doesn't mean we should have perfectly identical classes/specs across the board, because variety is important, and for 99.99% of all players its also perfectly fine. Anyone that doesn't understand that yet and uses that to try to argue for shit balance is just deluding themselves.

Are you denying the point that some tanks are just vastly superior to others right now?

While Bears can be easily whittled down by small, rapid, magic hits and DKs can be bursted or die to lots of small hits they can't death strike back up from, you have stuff like Paladin and Warrior and they're just, well, there's a reason you don't see many of them beating high-end Mythic fights.

[Super Kami Dende]

Except for like Vanilla/BC, every tank was viable in any "non-extreme content", and most were usually fine in "extreme content".

The fact that you exclude the extremes proves how shit the balance is right now. Guardians are amazing at physical mitigation; DKs are amazing at anything that doesn't outright kill them. The balance is beyond terrible and you're just proving the point.

OT: I'm all for homogenization if it's for the sake of balance. Most tanks had a weird button rotation followed by a choice of two spenders; they're pretty homogenized atm anyways.

How does someone actually be this wrong but believe it so much? Extremes are excluded because they are outliers. Meaning the extremes aren't what the game is balanced around. The Balance is better now for Tanks than it has been in a very long time if ever. The "extremes" he mentioned are places where even if tanks are only 1% apart in effectiveness the better one will be taken 99% of the time. Good lord some people on this website regurgitate the most inane shit.

[Nevcairiel]

Are you denying the point that some tanks are just vastly superior to others right now?

Bears for example can be easily whittled down by small, rapid, magic hits and DKs can be bursted or die to lots of small hits they can't death strike back up from. Then you have stuff like Paladin and Warrior and they're just, well, there's a reason you don't see many of them beating high-end Mythic fights.

Considering Guardians and BDKs have by far the highest presence in Mythic Antorus, and you still consider them flawed, I think its perfectly fine (all other tank specs are spread about equally). Who is the superior tank in that scenario if you consider everyone bad? Certainly not VDHs, they are generally quite sub-par, that leaves what, Monks? Still relatively low representation in raids.

In fact, many high-end raiders have commented on the tank balance in Legion being one of the best we've had for a long time.

[ReD-EyeD]

The fact that you exclude the extremes proves how shit the balance is right now.

Yes I do exclude them. And mind you this is coming from a person that played in Exorsus for like 7 years straight. You CAN'T balance extremes. That's the point. Even if you make the exact same rotation classes the one that has 1 extra hp will win.
Also 99% of time tanks being chosen for specific top 1 kill is because of utility that is being abused, not because of the tank being op overall.

[Nikkaszal]

Sigma has confirmed in a recent Blizzard post that the tank homogenisation seen on BFA alpha is in fact intended:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...2287277#post-9

All tanks will boil down to having an AGI/STR ---> armor button and very limited magic mitigation tools. I think that this is the wrong way to go and makes tanking extremely one-dimensional. Tank balance will simply boil down to whose 1 button is better.

Legion arguably had the worst tank balance in the history of WoW, but BFA is shaping up to be far worse. Putting all the tuning eggs into a 1 button basket is going to amplify the smallest of imbalances. All classes are going to play exactly the same, and the power of utility is going to be amplified.

And with Blizzard's hands-off approach when it comes to tank balance, expect an entire expansion with 2x the tank with the best 1 mitigation button.

I am genuinely horrified at the direction tanking is heading in BFA.

You didn't even comprehend the post you linked.

There is no "STR/AGI = ARMOUR button". It said that each spec will have an ACTIVE OR PASSIVE that CONVERTS SOME OF YOUR MAIN STAT INTO ARMOUR.

This in turn influences active mitigation tools, which scale off armour.

And ALL this blue post was talking about was how it makes gearing, primary stats and ilvl upgrades more meaningful for tanks. The more primary stat you have, the more armour you get and the more effective your AM is. This in turns allows you to more comfortably tank content which will require a higher armour "level" than the last.

Honestly you really should stop and actually read the bullshit you put down before hitting the "create thread" button.

[ls-]

Honestly you really should stop and actually read the bullshit you put down before hitting the "create thread" button.

If people did that, we'd have fewer threads on MMOC >_>

[VooDsXo]

Sigma has confirmed in a recent Blizzard post that the tank homogenisation seen on BFA alpha is in fact intended:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...2287277#post-9

All tanks will boil down to having an AGI/STR ---> armor button and very limited magic mitigation tools. I think that this is the wrong way to go and makes tanking extremely one-dimensional. Tank balance will simply boil down to whose 1 button is better.

Legion arguably had the worst tank balance in the history of WoW, but BFA is shaping up to be far worse. Putting all the tuning eggs into a 1 button basket is going to amplify the smallest of imbalances. All classes are going to play exactly the same, and the power of utility is going to be amplified.

And with Blizzard's hands-off approach when it comes to tank balance, expect an entire expansion with 2x the tank with the best 1 mitigation button.

I am genuinely horrified at the direction tanking is heading in BFA.

If tanking was so bad for balance, why did ALL of the major tank players say repeatedly tanking is the best for balance it's ever been? It sounds to me like YOU are taking bits and pieces of people talking about druids being a bit better overall but no tank spec being bad or not a viable option. The top 2% of guilds using only druids DOES not mean anything toward a normal player.

[ReD-EyeD]

Be me. Playing vanilla WoW and progressing on Naxxramas 40's The Four Horsemen. Apparently we need at least 4-6 warrior tanks (THE only tank in the game, at least for horde side) that farmed at least 5% SPELL HIT chance so your taunts WONT BE RESISTED leading to straight out wipe.

Reading this thread: "Legion tanking is garbage and the worst in WoW history".

Oh, well... Tanking balance can't be bad if there is only one tank in the game, I guess.

[Nikkaszal]

Be me. Playing vanilla WoW and progressing on Naxxramas 40's The Four Horsemen. Apparently we need at least 4-6 warrior tanks (THE only tank in the game, at least for horde side) that farmed at least 5% SPELL HIT chance so your taunts WONT BE RESISTED leading to straight out wipe.

Reading this thread: "Legion tanking is garbage and the worst in WoW history".

Oh, well... Tanking balance can't be bad if there is only one tank in the game, I guess.

Don't forget TBC where if you were a warrior, PuGs just assumed that you couldn't AoE tank and would skip you for a paladin. Or where you basically NEEDED a paladin for Hyjal trash.

Or the start of LK where DKs were basically nothing more than a liability at the start, then became gods.

Or in MoP where a well played Brewmaster was so fucking strong that they could single-tank a whole lot of stufd no-one else could (17 stacks on Horridon was my record), flat-out cheese mechanics (Elusive Brew on Sha Of Fear and Tortos), and in AoE situations they were the top damage in the whole damn raid (LOL WIND LORD)

[ReD-EyeD]

Don't forget TBC where if you were a warrior, PuGs just assumed that you couldn't AoE tank and would skip you for a paladin. Or where you basically NEEDED a paladin for Hyjal trash.

Or the start of LK where DKs were basically nothing more than a liability at the start, then became gods.

Or in MoP where a well played Brewmaster was so fucking strong that they could single-tank a whole lot of stufd no-one else could (17 stacks on Horridon was my record), flat-out cheese mechanics (Elusive Brew on Sha Of Fear and Tortos), and in AoE situations they were the top damage in the whole damn raid (LOL WIND LORD)

Yeah, you're very right here. People don't understand how bad things were >COMPARED< to our current game now. Obviously they weren't certainly "bad" at that time, but in hindsight I'm very glad with what we have now.
I'm also one of those people that played vanilla through and through on all levels from casual to world class raiding and I absolutely don't understand why people hype it so much. I just don't.