Class design in Battle for Azeroth is worrosime...

[Deleted]

WoD was by far the worst expansion.

That's your opinion, for me it is legion which somehow managed to be even worse than wod.

[Pakheth]

I would give my whole collection of Legiondaries to get MoP style class design again.
BfA is not looking good for any of the classes I play.

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Because classes should be fun and complete when you dont have artifacts, azerite armor, legendaries or tier sets.
Those things should just add an additional gameplay layer on top, not to make the class "work" as intented.

Exactly.
Why do Blizzard think new players will not be disheartened from leveling when you as some classes are stuck with something like 3-4(!) abilities from lv 9 to lv 100.

[Accendor]

I don't understand why people keep making posts like this when BFA's artifact system (azerite armor) hasn't even been implemented yet for the public. It'd be like complaining about Legion class design when you don't have access to artifacts.

because a class should work without it. Additional bonuses? awesome!
But make the class function without them please.

[Ponky]

It's nice to see how people are praising MoP and WoD as a pinnacle of class design, but reading forums back then in MoP and WoD was the same as now - people complaining about their classes infinitely (e.g. ret paladin inquisition, holy power for holy paladins, etc). So people will never be satisfied no matter what and it's so moronic now that legion is over people are like "omg we lose our artifact abilities, the horror!" meanwhile when artifacts were announced as a feature for legion, everyone hated them...

And it's nice that you guys want more abilities, when most of the players I meet in dungeons can't even use their cc nor interrupts nor niche abilities like spectral sight to find the disguised demon in CoS...so if you can't find your cc in your "5 button class" it's gonna be even worse if they give you more...

[Deleted]

WoD classes were infinitely better than any of legions garbage, quit your wod bashing bandwagon crap here. Outside of mmochamp posters who seem to love to bash wod for literally anything they can i do not know anyone who would not kill to go back to wod classes over the garbage legion and bfa offer.

That's highly subjective, i found both dd warrior specs worse of in wod especially arms, fire mage was strange the whole expansion and i also like the new idea of the shadowpriest in Legion way more.

I find a lot of dd specs more convenient and complex now, for tanks however legion made it worse imo..

[Cracked]

That's highly subjective, i found both dd warrior specs worse of in wod especially arms, fire mage was strange the whole expansion and i also like the new idea of the shadowpriest in Legion way more.

I find a lot of dd specs more convenient and complex now, for tanks however legion made it worse imo..

I think a few specs had problems with tuning in WoD, like Shadow, but few had problems with design. Arcane mage was very awkward until the class trinket came at least for me. But overall, the design bar was much higher. Then they gutted a lot of the specs, just compare WoD demo lock and the current empty shell. You say fire mage was strange, but it had a lot of depth with the old combustion, BRF double spread and double heating up buildup, it was only strange in HFC where it could no longer pull good numbers outside of 2 bosses.

Some specs also got better, ele shaman is my #1 example of good Legion design. It's genuinely fun to play, even if it doesn't have a ton of depth. But as I said, the overall bar was lowered.

[Gaidax]

It's nice to see how people are praising MoP and WoD as a pinnacle of class design, but reading forums back then in MoP and WoD was the same as now - people complaining about their classes infinitely (e.g. ret paladin inquisition, holy power for holy paladins, etc). So people will never be satisfied no matter what and it's so moronic now that legion is over people are like "omg we lose our artifact abilities, the horror!" meanwhile when artifacts were announced as a feature for legion, everyone hated them...

And it's nice that you guys want more abilities, when most of the players I meet in dungeons can't even use their cc nor interrupts nor niche abilities like spectral sight to find the disguised demon in CoS...so if you can't find your cc in your "5 button class" it's gonna be even worse if they give you more...

It's the usual - bunch of scrubs are up in arms nitpicking everything and providing little to no actual input.

Like if you look at OP - he is basically raising a tanty over 2 abilities being talents, which apparently instantly means that all 36 specs in game are utter terrible unispired lazy design and what not other hyperbole he tosses around. Apparently because Void Torrent is not baseline it means that "Blizzard's class design has become very shallow, boring and uninspired". The insult to the injury is that this is coming from a guy maining a spec, which got one of the best and most awesome redesigns in WoW just now in Legion by the same "shallow, boring and unispired" team.

And of course as customary you have a bunch of other bads jump into the circle-jerk with barely any actual info to work with.

I am playing Alpha and as a Warlock I can say that Demonology redesign is frikkin' awesome this time and I am happy they did not tamper with already good Destruction by bloating it with niche spells like in Legion. Affliction is too plain, IMO and not every last talent in other specs I like, but it does not suddenly mean that everything is shit.

People need to get off that hyperbole nonsense.

[ldev]

Last of the good class design went with MOP, any morons that thought it was a good idea to basely delete a spec that was no where near the least played (Ranged SV) and replace it melee #whatever and leave the people that enjoyed it out in the cold, just proves how stupid they really are. BFA Class design has no hope...

MoP demo warlock was best warlock too.

[Chemii]

I am crossing my fingers that they are deliberately leaving some major stuff out until beta to allow content to be experienced as freshly as possible at launch. Who knows though, a lot of people are saying the GCD thing is horrible.

Ultimately I've pre-ordered BfA, so I'm not going to stress out about it, I'll play it and if it sucks, I won't continue to play it.

[Gaidax]

just compare WoD demo lock and the current empty shell

As a Warlock main since Vanilla I can plainly say you have no idea what you are talking about. WoD Demo is a good design in your book? It was utter shit. Why? Because it was basically directionless mess of counter-intuitive abilities that produced a list of damage sources that looked like what my cat throws up.

This certainly does no favors to Legion Demo which has actual coherent direction, but suffers from mechanical mishaps like mana, buffing and ramp (things that are fixed in BfA btw), but let's not pretend WoD version was a good design - it was a frikkin' mess of absolutely random shit mixed together that worked only because it happened to be overtuned as fuck during Highmaul mastery hotfix and followed by BRF adds spam that happened to fit HoG stacking or Chaos Wave burst.

You certainly did not play it to experience the joy of gameplay.

[Cracked]

As a Warlock main since Vanilla I can plainly say you have no idea what you are talking about. WoD Demo is a good design in your book? It was utter shit. Why? Because it was basically directionless mess of counter-intuitive abilities that produced a list of damage sources that looked like what my cat throws up.

This certainly does no favors to Legion Demo which has actual coherent direction, but suffers from mechanical mishaps like mana, buffing and ramp (things that are fixed in BfA btw), but let's not pretend WoD version was a good design - it was a frikkin' mess of absolutely random shit mixed together that worked only because it happened to be overtuned as fuck during Highmaul mastery hotfix and followed by BRF adds spam that happened to fit HoG stacking or Chaos Wave burst.

You certainly did not play it to experience the joy of gameplay.

So because you didn't like the direction it was a "directionless mess"? No, it wasn't. Yes, I enjoyed it. Yes, it was fueled by multi target or aoe fights. So what? Some specs are, nothing wrong with that. I never said it was the pinnacle of clean design or amazing all around, I implied that it was better than what Legion has. Which I'm pretty sure you would be in a minority to deny it.

[Gaidax]

So because you didn't like the direction it was a "directionless mess"? No, it wasn't. Yes, I enjoyed it. Yes, it was fueled by multi target or aoe fights. So what? Some specs are, nothing wrong with that. I never said it was the pinnacle of clean design or amazing all around, I implied that it was better than what Legion has. Which I'm pretty sure you would be in a minority to deny it.

Of course I would be in minority, because we are in the usual "things were much better in past than they are now" mode. The usual bullshit I hear 13 years and counting I play this game.

I, personally, did not enjoy the fact that my spender nuke in my teh big bad ultimate form did damage equal to fucking Incinerate - a filler spell. And I did not enjoy the fact that using Chaos Wave in that super ultimate form was doing it wrong, because Hand of Guldan DoT stack was the right answer. I also did not enjoy the fact that Meta instead of being awesome DPS cooldown, was basically - great now my damage is finally not complete shit for the whole 10 seconds fury and molten core procs last.

And finally - I certainly did not enjoy the fact that "Demonology" was a bloody DoT/Direct Damage/Pets/Forms shit mix spec at the same time which resulted in what could be described as "Master of None" because your DoTs were shit, your pets were shit, your direct damage nukes were shit and your form was shit and all this worked out merely because you threw all this shit together at things like some cat fight.

Not even talking about how most abilities granted by Meta were a mistake to use, which IMO is a pinnacle of bad design - where your supposedly improved spells are noob traps, while the correct answer was actually spamming that one ability that you had all along even without Meta, yes that one - the one that was hitting for what amounts to filler spell damage by Destro.

[Akka]

Because people are impatient and haven't learned from every previous cycle. The concept of something being a work-in-progress is hard to grasp.

I find it ironic that someone looks down on other about how they "haven't learned from every previous cycle", while the real lessons to take from all previous cycles is that if you see it in the advanced alpha stage, it's going to be in the final version.

[Veldoranz]

I'm sure we will get a clearer picture in Beta next week. I'm going to wait until the game launches to say whether or not the class balance is bad or not.

[Nevcairiel]

I find it ironic that someone looks down on other about how they "haven't learned from every previous cycle", while the real lessons to take from all previous cycles is that if you see it in the advanced alpha stage, it's going to be in the final version.

So basically, all changes we see in every alpha or beta cycle, past or future, just didn't happen? Because what we saw in early alpha is what we got, right?

[Deleted]

Another amazing " Armschair Dev talking about stuff he didn't test in alpha "

[Schmilblick]

I'm sure we will get a clearer picture in Beta next week. I'm going to wait until the game launches to say whether or not the class balance is bad or not.

Beta next week ? source ?

[Kazjin]

First expansion where we won't learn any new abilities or spells from leveling. I can't wait to level!!

[Mafic]

Another amazing " Armschair Dev talking about stuff he didn't test in alpha "

Take off Active artifact abilities from your bar.

Congrats you tested 99% of the specs for BFA.

Classes in BFA are reverting to a legion prepatch state with minor changes to talents and arrangement of talent rows. If you think this is improvement well....

[Echiyo]

Classes right now really do feel like classes right now at level 100 without an artifact. It's really jarring and feels like a step backwards. Granted, I realize the azerite system is supposed to replace new abilities/talents in terms of character growth, but right now we have no assurance that level 120 azerite abilities will be meaty enough to fill that void.

It is very worrisome.