Toughest Racial Capital to siege

[seleri]

Probably the Vindicaar since it's in space and can go anywhere. Unless it's significantly larger in lore though, I'm not even sure I'd consider it a capital. As far as actual cities go, either Ironforge or Silvermoon (assuming Blizzard says the shield is op).

[Psychotrip]

Its more likely the writers just mistakenly assumed it was subterranean. The presence of plant life, naga, and the ship make it impossible.

Is there even a lake between Ironforge and Stormwind? I already explained the ship, there's no reason naga couldn't get there, and there's numerous ways plantlife could be down there as well. Sun shining in from holes in the cavern ceiling, bio-luminescent fungi, hell there's plantlife in the deep sea that don't need too much light at all.

The lake is underground. That's just the way it is, according to the lore.

[Leviatharan]

Ironforge.

• As with Undercity, Ironforge is built to be a maze, and cannot be infiltrated by air or by sea. Old Ironforge is also over a lava pit, so anyone unfamiliar with the mountain will face difficulty tunneling in as well.
• For most foes, there is only one entrance into or out of the city -- the front gate -- which means only one entrance defenders would need to barricade, as easy as simply collapsing the tunnel. (Dwarves are builders and tunnelers; they're never sealed in.)
• There is enough space just inside the front gates to deploy several siege vehicles facing outward -- and the dwarves live with the Alliance's main distributor of siege machinery.
• Home to two of the smallest species on Azeroth, Ironforge is equipped with several narrow tunnels, sharp corners, and natural bottlenecks that make it easy to pick off anyone charging toward you.
• The Deeprun Tram tunnels give the inhabitants not only a quick exit from the city, but a route for supplies and rapid reinforcements from Stormwind. It also features electronic communications bulletins (which normally track the trams), which could be easily reconfigured to send nigh-instantaneous SOS signals between cities.
• If there are two races you should never want to try and besiege, it's Gnomes and Goblins. Innovative minds are the most likely to imagine up traps. Goblins haven't lived in a city they could have spent decades booby-trapping.
• Dun Morogh is cold, which itself makes a natural deterrent against extended sieges. Look up Napoleon's charge into Russia.

[Radaney]

Ironforge probably.

[sighy]

I suppose Azerite weapons change the game a bit. But looking at if from the outside it seems it's hollowed out to the peak with rooms and tunnels so I doubt they Arnt silly enough not to reinforce the structure and think of that. I don't think conventional siege weapons we've seen could bring the mountain down in them but we need to see what Azerite can do yet.

If they are realy under siege incursions through blowing a hole in the damn mountain, if not bringing it down on to of the poor bastards would be very effective. And the dwarwes can't do a damn thing about it. Bare in mind they only need to disrupt the structural integrity and that is only a question of sufficient firepower in the right places. azerite is unknows, but the general describtions make it seem like a little bit of azerite can make gunpowder 10 times more potent.

[jackofwind]

Don't forget that while Ironforge is built over a lava pit and is therefore quite temperate, Dun Morogh is a very cold region. Any protracted siege would not be an enjoyable experience for those outside the mountain.

[sighy]

In mop garrosh attacked by sea in his vision.

Which makes sense as marching an army South via land would be death once you hit the mountains and dwarves. North would work better by sailing to sv but leaves u open to attack in transit and sv in lore is said to be pritty harsh terrain( harsher than it's presented in game)

A sea born invasion would definitely be the most logical attack vector with an Airborn component from carriers and gunship's. Surprise would be of the most importance. I would begin first though by sending small Goblin subs with rouge agents in first to sabotage the ships in harbour and as much aerial defence they have then launch a full scale landing right in the docks beaching my ships if need be.

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Or it's subterranean but with an opening to the sea?

The moest feasible way to get to stormwind on foot would likely be to make a landfall in westfall and go through elwyn forest. That is the reason Vashj'ir was so important to Garrosh in Cata, because it was a new landmass basically next to Stormwind, which made it excellent as a staging ground for the conquest of Stormwind.

[Varodoc]

Ironforge is overrated. The city was never breached during the Second War but it's also true that the bulk of the Horde had moved north to invade Capital City which means that only one Clan, the Bleeding Hollow led by Kilrogg Deadeye, was left to siege the city. Let's see if Ironforge had resisted if the entire Horde, not just one Clan, had invaded it like they did with Stormwind City in the First War. In addition, let us not forget that King Varian Wrynn and 18 SI:7 operatives successfully infiltrated the city despite the fact that Queen Moira Thaurissan had it locked down and its people kept as hostages.

Now that I think about it, Telogrus Rift is technically the toughest racial capital to siege, simply because the only entrance to the Rift is through a small portal in the heart of Stormwind City. How do you invade that? You don't.

[Khaza-R]

I would have actually thought Darnassus was on of them. Normal, healthy trees are not very flammable despite the pop culture depictions. Given its height, they would also see any attack coming from far away.

Ironforge would be my second guess barring the enemy doesn't have strong magic that would shake the mountain and make it collapse on itself or erupt from the inside out.

Stormwind seems vulnerable due to the large port area they would have to defend.

Orgrimmar seems like it would be well fortified being in a canyon and all, but its been destroyed once and invaded once. So I am not really sure how fortified it is.

A land invasion into Thunder Bluff would seem futile unless you could launch catapults and artillery up there. Overall since its only made up of tents, it seems pretty susceptible to any type of bombing. If it was fortified with rock and stone I might say otherwise.

[Ardac]

Silly answer - Vindicar. Its a freaking space ship that held back legion attacks against it for our time on Argus.

Honest answer - I would have to say undercity. Yes, I know its a bad pick because it falls at the start of BFA and after the wrath gate.
Reasons....
-It and Ironforge are underground (which is huge when it comes to defense).
-The went up to the ground lvl to defend in BFA. If they wanted to actually hold back a siege, they could have collapsed the tunnels and waited out the alliance / attackers rather easy. Blockades are a huge part of sieges. The invading army cuts off the supplies of the home team, so they home team has a deadline. This would effect IF but not the UC. The forsaken can wait months or years down in the ground with no issue. An invading army cant just sit outside and wait forever.

That answer depends on it being held by forsaken. Just 100% based on the city and not the race that held it the Ironforge or Silvermoon. Ironforge has a strong physical defense, while SMC has powerful magic.

Personally excluding Zuldazar because I havent seen the city yet.

Also, IF would be hard but it is the same as Grim Batol and we all know what happened to that place.

[Rosefern]

To siege (or lay siege to) one of them is to simply put a blockade around the city so no one may enter or leave. Ironforge, with it's 2 ingress/egress points, could be incredibly easy to siege given you could take over Stormwind. However, it would be incredibly difficult to invade/take over for those same reasons.

This was my first thought to (especially with the follow up post being about blowing up the tram). Cutting off supplies to Ironforge could be considered the "easiest" since if it can't make it through the front gate, it ain't making it in.

I would agree that although goblins aren't the toughest people, Bilgewater would be hard to siege with it's waterfront for supplies and proximity to Org for re-enforcement's.

[Time Sage]

Its not subterranean you can see a sunken ship. It likely goes though a lake several are on the surface between SW and IF

Fun fact, the tram was supposed to run between the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor originally. The water is a remnant of that (Also probably why the map has it running east and west rather then north and south)

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Silly answer - Vindicar. Its a freaking space ship that held back legion attacks against it for our time on Argus.

Honest answer - I would have to say undercity. Yes, I know its a bad pick because it falls at the start of BFA and after the wrath gate.
Reasons....
-It and Ironforge are underground (which is huge when it comes to defense).
-The went up to the ground lvl to defend in BFA. If they wanted to actually hold back a siege, they could have collapsed the tunnels and waited out the alliance / attackers rather easy. Blockades are a huge part of sieges. The invading army cuts off the supplies of the home team, so they home team has a deadline. This would effect IF but not the UC. The forsaken can wait months or years down in the ground with no issue. An invading army cant just sit outside and wait forever.

That answer depends on it being held by forsaken. Just 100% based on the city and not the race that held it the Ironforge or Silvermoon. Ironforge has a strong physical defense, while SMC has powerful magic.

Personally excluding Zuldazar because I havent seen the city yet.

Also, IF would be hard but it is the same as Grim Batol and we all know what happened to that place.

Alliance rogues and druids have already infiltrated the city by time the scenario starts. Killing them while evacuating citizens is the first couple steps of the horde side. Even if they sealed the elevator shafts and the sewer entrances off, you'd be trapped in there with no way out with hostile elements.

[Deleted]

Very good thread.

Applying real world siege tactics and WoW lore: Ironforge, Shadowforge and Quel'Thalas.

[Ardac]

Fun fact, the tram was supposed to run between the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor originally. The water is a remnant of that (Also probably why the map has it running east and west rather then north and south)

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Alliance rogues and druids have already infiltrated the city by time the scenario starts. Killing them while evacuating citizens is the first couple steps of the horde side. Even if they sealed the elevator shafts and the sewer entrances off, you'd be trapped in there with no way out with hostile elements.

Trapped yes, and not the greatest idea but it would make it the easiest to defend. I don't think the hostile environment of being trapped in the UC would effect the forsaken much. The attacking army prob would have gotten some spys inside first, but once the tunnels are closed they have no where to go, the cant poison food supplies or anything.

[sighy]

Trapped yes, and not the greatest idea but it would make it the easiest to defend. I don't think the hostile environment of being trapped in the UC would effect the forsaken much. The attacking army prob would have gotten some spys inside first, but once the tunnels are closed they have no where to go, the cant poison food supplies or anything.

Just a tiny problem of siege weapons bringin the cieling down on their heads left.

[Nathreim]

It is rather unspectacular:

Back in Beta the tram was supposed to lead to Darnassus rather than Stormwind and the "Lake" you see is actually the ocean between the continents.
That was later scraped for unknown reason and connected to Stormwind instead, but the water part remained even though there is no lake between Ironforge and Stormwind. Writers then just said it is an underground lake.

Is there even a lake between Ironforge and Stormwind? I already explained the ship, there's no reason naga couldn't get there, and there's numerous ways plantlife could be down there as well. Sun shining in from holes in the cavern ceiling, bio-luminescent fungi, hell there's plantlife in the deep sea that don't need too much light at all.

The lake is underground. That's just the way it is, according to the lore.

Actually if you look in game it passes under a narrow sea passage which would explain the sharks.

[Oneirophobia]

Ironforge would be a motherfucker to crack in a siege, especially if they collapse the tram tunnel, the only problem is how long will they last before they run out of supplies, I know dwarves are notorious for hording gold and supplies but eventually it will become a point where shit going to get real inside that mountain.

Can't you just portal supplies into the city or conjure food?

Alternatively, portal saboteurs into the city. Drop some blight in through some portals, cave in the exits. Come back in a week to rob the tomb. Play a little game of "are the dwarves as good as they say they are at digging."

[Psychotrip]

Can't you just portal supplies into the city or conjure food?

Alternatively, portal saboteurs into the city. Drop some blight in through some portals, cave in the exits. Come back in a week to rob the tomb. Play a little game of "are the dwarves as good as they say they are at digging."

Conjuring food is only efficient on a small scale. It takes energy (mana) to create it, and realistically you couldn't feed an entire city of people on mana buns unless you want to kill a lot of exhausted mages.

I also think in this scenario, magical transport would be disabled. The only way for a siege to work at all in the Warcraft universe would be if magical saboteurs stopped the people in the city from porting out. Even so, portals can only fit so many people at a time and can't exist permanently. Imagine trying to evacuate New York City through a 10 foot tall hole in reality that only lasts a few minutes each time.

[Deleted]

If they are realy under siege incursions through blowing a hole in the damn mountain, if not bringing it down on to of the poor bastards would be very effective. And the dwarwes can't do a damn thing about it. Bare in mind they only need to disrupt the structural integrity and that is only a question of sufficient firepower in the right places. azerite is unknows, but the general describtions make it seem like a little bit of azerite can make gunpowder 10 times more potent.

aye also a point i remembered iron forge is a dormant volcano it has lava in it. would azerite trip an eruption and do to ID what raggy did to black rock ?

[Dudas]

I noticed that a vast majority mentioned the Vindicaar as hard to siege. While that might be true, if we speak only from a siege perspective, keep in mind that a similar(if not better ship) type of vessel called the Xenedar, that has battled the legion for 1000 omegalul years, was shot down by the legion with a fel canon. Now I'm sure there is a goblin rogue out there that has the blueprints to such a canon. And I'm sure there are enough warlocks loyal to the Horde willing to provide fel via magic. Or just take enemy demon hunters and apply chinese water drop torture on them till they shoot fel beams and use that for fuel. So a similar canon (it not a better azerite pumped one) could be made and take the flying ship out of the sky.

Also another factor is how are those ships fueled. And don't tell me Light magic...
"As the command ship for the invading mortal forces, the Vindicaar would come under heavy fire from Legion artillery in most locations on Argus (particularly the Antoran Wastes) though its shields were able to prevent serious damage. In charge of maintaining these defenses, Grand Artificer Romuul also ordered the recovery of a specific variety of crystal from the ancient constructs scattered around Mac'Aree, which were vital to these efforts."

We can assume that this is also used for fuel? If it is I wonder how much it would consume to travel from one planet to another. And how much did they manage to stack while on Argus...

Vindicaar looks like a cool Sci-fi future imba ship but seems it will run out of gasoline pretty soon, if it hasn't already... If that is the case even the vindicaar would be taken down during a siege. Its shields are strong but don't last forever. And with no way to get the same crystal on Azeroth things don't look that fortunate...