Illidan and Arthas Rematch

[JTHMRulez1]

I know powerlevels are bullshit and that's my signature quote. But I don't care, I wanted to do this thread.

If Illidan as we saw him in Legion (That is, at his prime) had a rematch against Arthas as the Lich King, who would win?

[Felthan]

Through gameplay or lore if gameplay Illidan if lore then The Lich King.

[Kyphael]

Through gameplay or lore if gameplay Illidan if lore then The Lich King.

Is it confirmed Legion Illidan is any stronger than WC3 Illidan? I mean, it's not like Dragon Ball where saiyans get stronger after losing a battle, and Illidan was like in some sort of stasis so since BC so it's not like he was "training" in BC. In WC3 when he got the Skull of Gul'dan, he became as strong as he has been up to this point without any other particular power boost for him mentioned in between WC3 to Burning Crusade.

And given Illidan + Skull of Gul'dan still lost to Death Knight Arthas, Lich King Arthas would have stomped him for sure, game play or not, remember, Blizzard has said levels don't correspond to lore power, so just because Vanessa Vancleef is level 90 in Cataclysm doesn't mean she could beat the Lich King who is 80.

So Illidan loses in any scenario against Lich King Arthas or even DK Arthas unless Illidan gets a new power boost (he's imprisoned with Sargeras now but not like it matters, Arthas is dead so it's unlikely they'll meet again.)

[darkoms]

Illidan is easy. He lost only because of his self-confidence. A'dal could destroy cities and mountains and even he was weaker than Illidan. Not to mention that he destroyed Xe'Ra, which is much stronger than A'dal. The Lich King lost the paladin with a sword, in which the heart is naaru. Illidan destroyed the strongest of the naaru.

[Dellis0991]

Illidan is easy. He lost only because of his self-confidence. A'dal could destroy cities and mountains and even he was weaker than Illidan. Not to mention that he destroyed Xe'Ra, which is much stronger than A'dal. The Lich King lost the paladin with a sword, in which the heart is naaru. Illidan destroyed the strongest of the naaru.

One prime naaru.....there are more out there.

[Bathory]

It's hard to say since the writing for illidan has been pretty all over the place with the "Illidan went mad after he was defeated by Arthas, now he's completely gone", now we find out he didn't go crazy at all, he just had a master plan that we interrupted.

So, going solely off of "illidan was defeated by arthas and if they met up, what would happen?" I think Illidan would be less cocky, and more careful and would ultimately bring Arthas down.

[Varodoc]

Nope, there is no way that Illidan could destroy Lich King Arthas unless the battle took place at the Frozen Throne. The Lich King would endure whatever Illidan threw at him.

Also, Illidan destroyed Xe'ra but the Prime Naaru wasn't expecting his retaliation. Let's see how the battle would have played out had Xe'ra expected Illidan's attack.

[Tyrathius]

There's no real evidence Illidan is any stronger now than he was when he originally lost to Arthas.

On the other hand, there's A LOT of evidence that Arthas got stronger since, you know, he wasn't the Lich King then.

[Deleted]

Lich King Arthas is certainly not immune against the power of fel, fel fire etc. Things Illidan used a great deal. The newest lore in the book showed that Illidan was definitely quite a bit stronger compared to Lich King empowered Deathknight Arthas and only lost because of overconfidence.

After that, back in Outland, Illidan grew immensely in power. A'dal called him a god. Although thats typical Blizzard hyperbole. The biggest strength of the Lich King also isn't 1vs1 fights. Blizzard also stated that Lei Shen with his full power would be stronger than the Lich King.

The power of the Lich King also depends on how many undead he controls. The more he controls, the powerful he gets.

But i'm of the impression, that Legion Illidan could burn the Lichking to crisp with his fel fire, if he gets a proper hold on him. Of course the Lich King could defeat Illidan as well, if the latter is again overconfident.

[JTHMRulez1]

Nope, there is no way that Illidan could destroy Lich King Arthas unless the battle took place at the Frozen Throne. The Lich King would endure whatever Illidan threw at him.

Also, Illidan destroyed Xe'ra but the Prime Naaru wasn't expecting his retaliation. Let's see how the battle would have played out had Xe'ra expected Illidan's attack.

Honestly. The whole Frozen Throne angle seems to be a classical Blizzard hyperbole. But if you really want it, assume they fight on the Frozen Throne.

Also, how could she have not expected retaliation? She had him imprisioned and saw him break his chain in front of her. Illidan destroyed her fair and square.

[Varodoc]

But if you really want it, assume they fight on the Frozen Throne.

That would give Illidan a clear advantage, whereas in this VS. threads both fighters are supposed to be on even grounds.

Also, how could she have not expected retaliation?

Because it was unconceivable for Xe'ra that the Champion of the Light would turn against the Prime Naaru and reject the Light.

[Qualia]

There's no real evidence Illidan is any stronger now than he was when he originally lost to Arthas.
On the other hand, there's A LOT of evidence that Arthas got stronger since, you know, he wasn't the Lich King then.

Is it confirmed Legion Illidan is any stronger than WC3 Illidan? I mean, it's not like Dragon Ball where saiyans get stronger after losing a battle, and Illidan was like in some sort of stasis so since BC so it's not like he was "training" in BC. In WC3 when he got the Skull of Gul'dan, he became as strong as he has been up to this point without any other particular power boost for him mentioned in between WC3 to Burning Crusade.

And given Illidan + Skull of Gul'dan still lost to Death Knight Arthas, Lich King Arthas would have stomped him for sure, game play or not, remember, Blizzard has said levels don't correspond to lore power, so just because Vanessa Vancleef is level 90 in Cataclysm doesn't mean she could beat the Lich King who is 80.

So Illidan loses in any scenario against Lich King Arthas or even DK Arthas unless Illidan gets a new power boost (he's imprisoned with Sargeras now but not like it matters, Arthas is dead so it's unlikely they'll meet again.)

Not really.

It's confirmed that Legion Illidan - or even TBC Illidan if he wasn't greatly weakened when we arrived - is much more stronger than WC3 Illidan. Apparently, he had new power boost all along. This mainly comes from the novel "Illidan", with some bits in Legion expansion as well. He just took some time to "ingest" the power he received from the ToS. For example, in "Illidan", Akama said it: "You have no conception of how strong Illidan has become. I saw him work sorcery that I would not have believed possible for anyone less than a god". Given that Akama had been with Illidan since WC3, if he said Illidan had become stronger, it's fair to assume that Illidan indeed grew stronger. Moreover, we also had A'dal accepted that Illidan "has the power to make good of that" (his claims to be Lord of Outland), and before the siege of Black Temple, it was said that "He is the mightiest being in Outland". Adal, who was stated to be "shimmered like a chained sun. Unleashed, the naaru’s power might destroy cities or level mountain", wasn't as powerful as TBC Illidan. I don't think LK Arthas has shown any indication of being powerful enough to destroy a mountain. To boost, while he drained his opponents' souls to power his spell, Illidan opened a portal all the way to Nathreza - one which he later used as a bomb to destroy the Nathrezim's planet ("Shortly after the portal closed, Nathreza blew apart. Every demon on its surface perished."). This should be way more powerful than Illidan as he was during TFT, when he couldn't destroy a single continent (Northrend) on the same planet with just the Eye of Sargeras and had to go to Dalaran to take more power from the leylines as well.

Based on the book, we only won against him because he was greatly weakened due to a certain incident before we assaulted BT. Illidan was more or less on his death bed, had to even further spent his power to keep the portal to Mar'dum opened for the DHs to come back, and still would have killed us all if Maiev didn't come at the end. It's fair to say that with the book and Legion, Illidan's power has been portrayed on another higher level from what we thought during TBC - which kinda makes sense, this is the guy who went against Kil'Jaeden together with Velen & Khadgar, and managed to hold him off long enough for us to finish the Avatar in ToS, after all.

Lastly, keep in mind that DK Arthas wasn't just merely DK Arthas. He was empowered with every ounce of LK's power that Ner'zhul could afford back then - to the point that LK was almost going to fade away ("it was a dangerous gamble that pushed the entity even greater to the edge of oblivion, but it was the only chance he had to survive"). While he definitely wasn't on the same level as LK Arthas, he is closer to LK in power than the normal DK Arthas we saw during RoC / TFT until the duel. Illidan could have won as well, if he hadn't been as arrogant as he was. Fairly speaking, assuming no PiS, Legion Illidan should triumph over LK Arthas. After all, if we are talking about individual power, Arthas canonically is less powerful than Lei Shen at his peak - and I don't think even Lei Shen at his peak was as powerful (took a month to defeat a Wild God in a duel, and clearly no indication that he could either destroy a mountain or even a planet either)

[Felthan]

Correct me if i am wrong but during WC3 Frozen throne campaign Arthas was losing strength (in terms of game play he started at max level and each new mission he started one level lower till he was low level again) so was he fighting illidan at 10% of his power or did he regain all his power before he merged with the Lich King? Cause Illidan weakened (with a crack?) the frozen throne with the artifact and ritual.

[Verdugo]

Correct me if i am wrong but during WC3 Frozen throne campaign Arthas was losing strength (in terms of game play he started at max level and each new mission he started one level lower till he was low level again) so was he fighting illidan at 10% of his power or did he regain all his power before he merged with the Lich King? Cause Illidan weakened (with a crack?) the frozen throne with the artifact and ritual.

During the last mission, Lich King gave him all the power he could spare, allowing him to level back to 10.

[Arrashi]

Arthas just stabs him during illidans self-pitying, miserable speech.

[Felthan]

During the last mission, Lich King gave him all the power he could spare, allowing him to level back to 10.

Been a long time since i played thanks for the info.

[Deleted]

It's impossible to know for sure because both Illidan's and Arthas powers changed greatly after their first duel.
In WoTLK we have both Jaina and Sylvanas state how Arthas power had increased immensely since the last time they met him (also confirmed by the spirit of Uther in HoR if I'm not mistaken), while in the Illidan book we are explained that Illidan hadn't still full control of the power he absorbed from the skull of Gul'dan, and lost becasue he was overconfident.

Especially considering how badly Illidan story has been handled during the years, it's really hard to know how powerful he is for sure.

[JTHMRulez1]

That would give Illidan a clear advantage, whereas in this VS. threads both fighters are supposed to be on even grounds.

Contradict, contradict, contradict.

Because it was unconceivable for Xe'ra that the Champion of the Light would turn against the Prime Naaru and reject the Light.

Except it wasnt? she was clearly forcing him to accept the gift. She had him restrained and was trying to hold him off from fighting back and was obviously meeting resistance.

[Varodoc]

Contradict, contradict, contradict.

It's not. If you decide that the battle takes place in the Frozen Throne, you give Illidan a clear advantage over Arthas.

Except it wasnt? she was clearly forcing him to accept the gift. She had him restrained and was trying to hold him off from fighting back and was obviously meeting resistance.

She was blinded by her faith, as Turalyon and his lackeys were. She thought that Illidan would ultimately give into the Light -one way or another-, since this was what the Light showed her. The mere idea that Illidan would defy the prophecy and turn against the Prime Naaru was unconceivable.

[Powerogue]

Their first duel was Arthas before he took on the powers of the lich king (and while he was dying from the lich king facing the effects of some eye of sargeras-induced global warming). So I'm still banking on Arthas. (maybe back down to even post-weakening from us shattering Arthas's heart?)

Though if you're talking Illidan now vs Arthas now, that would be a very short fight.