WW Monk stat caps?

[Deleted]

Just wondering if there is any important stat caps for a WW monk?

Ive tried looking at icy veins, and peak of serenity. Nothing is listed there, so im in doubts.

[Lord Baz]

Raidbots . com

[Lixion]

No but our statweights change all the time depending on your gear.

The best way is to sim your char every now and then to get up to date weights.

[Deleted]

Nope, you gotta sim what your best stat is.

[Babylonius]

Didnt look too hard:
http://www.peakofserenity.com/windwa...etc_for_x_stat

Is there a hard cap, soft cap, breakpoint, etc for X stat?
No. Caps and breakpoints aren’t as common in WoW as they once were believed to be, and even then, many of them are minor caps or breakpoints at best. That is simply not how math works very often in WoW anymore.

[MightyWombat]

yea, i also use raidbot site, and i also use simc addon, which allows me to type /simc ingame and it pops up a window with info i copy, and paste into the raidbot site, and it then runs a simulation for me, and spits out a string i can use on a addon, i use pawn addon, i like it.Then i post my string into that and voila it will tell me if a piece of gear i find is better, but when you do change out gear it could be wise to simulate again to make sure the weightscale hasnt changed.

[Jngizu]

yea, i also use raidbot site, and i also use simc addon, which allows me to type /simc ingame and it pops up a window with info i copy, and paste into the raidbot site, and it then runs a simulation for me, and spits out a string i can use on a addon, i use pawn addon, i like it.Then i post my string into that and voila it will tell me if a piece of gear i find is better, but when you do change out gear it could be wise to simulate again to make sure the weightscale hasnt changed.

Pawn is actually risky because stat weights change with every new piece of gear you get. You should always use the "Top Gear" option instead.

[MightyWombat]

pawn is safe because, i change the stats weight everytime i get a new gear...i dont run pawns own stats, i use raiderbot sites calculations with it. and got a simc addon to make it easier.

[Jngizu]

pawn is safe because, i change the stats weight everytime i get a new gear...i dont run pawns own stats, i use raiderbot sites calculations with it. and got a simc addon to make it easier.

You completely missed my point.

[Parhelion]

Except if you are ilvl 970 where every 1% matters, with perfect ping and execution, as a rule of thumb, I don't think a WW can go wrong with stacking mastery and crit, with a few pieces that have haste and versatility. I think people spend too much time looking at simulations and not enough time on perfecting execution, which is obivously far harder and takes a lot more effort than simming yourself for every new piece of gear you get.

[Babylonius]

Except if you are ilvl 970 where every 1% matters, with perfect ping and execution, as a rule of thumb, I don't think a WW can go wrong with stacking mastery and crit, with a few pieces that have haste and versatility. I think people spend too much time looking at simulations and not enough time on perfecting execution, which is obivously far harder and takes a lot more effort than simming yourself for every new piece of gear you get.

Although a WW can't go too wrong just stacking Mastery and Crit, they're still leaving damage on the table thats easily obtainable if they're unaware of whether or not they should switch their gems or enchants for Versatility. Someone who's playing the spec to the max will get more out of changing the gems around to the correct ones, but everyone benefits, even a little, from having their stats set up correctly. Its an easy and innocuous way to gain a little bit damage.

Just going with the rule of "a few pieces that have haste and versatility" is just too vague to be a real answer. How many pieces are "a few" what about a chest piece vs gloves where the chest provides much more stats, and thus will swing the dps and stat weights more.

If, like you said, simming takes very little effort, then it seems like a good place to start, so why not do that also? This thread wasn't about "should I spend time on my stat weights, or spend time practicing". There's no reason that you can't do both, and depending on how you get your stat weights or your computers capabilities, you could literally do both at the same time.

[kran1um]

Crit. I usually succeed with it after 30/15/35 benchmarks.

[Babylonius]

Crit. I usually succeed with it after 30/15/35 benchmarks.

As long as you understand that thats purely feelycraft and there's nothing to support that mathematically.

[Parhelion]

Although a WW can't go too wrong just stacking Mastery and Crit, they're still leaving damage on the table thats easily obtainable if they're unaware of whether or not they should switch their gems or enchants for Versatility. Someone who's playing the spec to the max will get more out of changing the gems around to the correct ones, but everyone benefits, even a little, from having their stats set up correctly. Its an easy and innocuous way to gain a little bit damage.

Just going with the rule of "a few pieces that have haste and versatility" is just too vague to be a real answer. How many pieces are "a few" what about a chest piece vs gloves where the chest provides much more stats, and thus will swing the dps and stat weights more.

If, like you said, simming takes very little effort, then it seems like a good place to start, so why not do that also? This thread wasn't about "should I spend time on my stat weights, or spend time practicing". There's no reason that you can't do both, and depending on how you get your stat weights or your computers capabilities, you could literally do both at the same time.

You're right on all points of course, and I apologize.

But it's hard not to be cynical, because the question reveals the underlying problem that questions and comments have no basis in underlying understanding of the topic.
It's like a bus driver asking if there's an optimal maximum speed for driving a certain bus model, when he should be aware that bus speed limits are determined by law.

One would presume if we have tens of thousands of work hours put into generating data like simcraft (and posts/comments/questions to match), that we would have matching hundreds of thousands of work hours put into actual gameplay advice.

But I have yet to see a resource that, for example, details monk ability use for various scenarios of, say, pulling all trash to the first miniboss in Black Rook Hold (with various scenarios dependant on group comp, affixes etc.). I'm pretty sure that would have way more impact on actual player and group perfomance than 2% more DPS from stat weights.

To be clear, I'm not trivializing the effort made by you and many others. Sims are important, class resources (like your website) are extremely important. Yet there's a huge font of knowledge simply not in existence and way too many people pretend that's okay/how it should be.

[cface]

Except if you are ilvl 970 where every 1% matters, with perfect ping and execution, as a rule of thumb, I don't think a WW can go wrong with stacking mastery and crit, with a few pieces that have haste and versatility. I think people spend too much time looking at simulations and not enough time on perfecting execution, which is obivously far harder and takes a lot more effort than simming yourself for every new piece of gear you get.

I agree that most focus is on maths and a 1 target dummy explanation of it. Siming does not take long, so it's not like you don't have enough time to perfect executions etc. But yes, I haven't actually seen a guide at all, where they discuss stats/abilities together in different scenarios as you mentioned. There probably is a guide, but I just haven't stumbled upon it.

[Babylonius]

You're right on all points of course, and I apologize.

But it's hard not to be cynical, because the question reveals the underlying problem that questions and comments have no basis in underlying understanding of the topic.
It's like a bus driver asking if there's an optimal maximum speed for driving a certain bus model, when he should be aware that bus speed limits are determined by law.

One would presume if we have tens of thousands of work hours put into generating data like simcraft (and posts/comments/questions to match), that we would have matching hundreds of thousands of work hours put into actual gameplay advice.

But I have yet to see a resource that, for example, details monk ability use for various scenarios of, say, pulling all trash to the first miniboss in Black Rook Hold (with various scenarios dependant on group comp, affixes etc.). I'm pretty sure that would have way more impact on actual player and group perfomance than 2% more DPS from stat weights.

To be clear, I'm not trivializing the effort made by you and many others. Sims are important, class resources (like your website) are extremely important. Yet there's a huge font of knowledge simply not in existence and way too many people pretend that's okay/how it should be.

So I think I see what you're saying; that there is seemingly a lot of time spent into SimCraft, and not as much put into class resources. I'm assuming that's what you're saying. I'm also somewhat bored at the end of my work day, so this is going to be a little bit overkill, and probably come across a bit snarky.

To address the "tens of thousands" of hours you believe has gone into SimCraft vs the "hundreds of thousand" that you feel should be put into actual gameplay advice....

10,000 hours is 416 days. Monks have been out since September 25, 2012, if you figure people were spending the preceding 6 months working on simcraft for Monks, thats roughly 2,200 days. I can assure you that Hinalover has not spent nearly 4.5 hours a day, every day for the past 6 years, working on SimCraft. I can't say that with 100% certainty, but since I've been working with and around him for nearly all of those 6 years, I don't think that's the case.

Conversely, 100,000 hours is 4166 days, or 11.4 years. Obviously its not possible to have done 11 years worth of work in 6 years unless you split it up among several people, but even dividing it among 10 people consistently for those 6 years, would still average out to roughly the previous 4.5 hours a day every day for 10 people, for 6 years. So I'm sure we can agree that your numbers are a little exaggerated.

Moving away from snarkiness...

SimCraft largely builds on itself. A conversation the other day in Discord, with Hinalover and others, was about how similar some of the Azerite Traits were, functionally and coding-wise, to a coding style for buffs that Blizzard hadn't used in a number of years. However, the previous way it worked in SimCraft was there, and thus the Azerite traits became much easier to implement, cutting down the time enormously, so not as much time needs to be spent. We've never done a direct analysis of our time spent, but I am reasonably confident that I have spent more time writing my guides and doing things for the site over the last year, than Hinalover has working on SimCraft, because he hasn't had to reinvent and format the wheel.

To get to your specific example, of the first pull in BRH; I'm not sure what you're looking for. I fail to see how the information provided on PeakofSerenity.com could not help you determine the best way to perform your rotation, set up your character, and use your abilities for that pull, and many others. On Peak we have a page that tells you how to prioritize your damaging abilities, how to pick the best gear and artifact traits for your character and content, and more.

What would be the point of having a list of what you should do when you are "say, pulling all trash to the first miniboss in Black Rook Hold" and providing separate information for "various scenarios dependant on group comp, affixes etc." when the answer to 99.9% of those scenarios is going to be the same?

What you're looking for doesn't exist in the form you're looking for because its unnecessary. If I tell you "always use Fists of Fury when there are 5 targets" why do I have to tell you
1) "always use Fists of Fury when there are 5 targets and your healer is a Holy Paladin"
2) "always use Fists of Fury when there are 5 targets and its a Sanguine affix"
3) "always use Fists of Fury when there are 5 targets because you pulled all the trash to the mini-boss in BRH"
4) "always use Fists of Fury when there are 5 targets and you had a tuna fish sandwich for lunch, but the lady cut it into squares instead of an X because she's not-so-secretly a monster trying to ruin your life"
?

Your looking for specifics that can easily be covered by the general. Occasionally they require a modicum of critical thinking, but not more than that.

People do come up with that knowledge, absolutely. If you asked someone in the MDI why they don't pop SEF on a trash pack, or why they started off with Strike of the Windlord when conventional wisdom says to start with Fists of Fury due to the shorter cooldown, they can tell you those answers, if there's a direct answer to them. Many of the people who know this information will readily share it with you if you ask, but the time that it takes to come up with this information, and the time that it would take to share it, in detail, with the world, would not leave much time after.

SimCraft is the basis for most of the work that I do, its what helps to eliminate the ridiculous, so that we know that its not worth it just to spam Blackout Kick when there are 10 targets rather than using SCK or FoF. Experience is what brings things further into being able to decide if small deviations from what is mathematically best, can work out in the long run. Being able to explain it to others is another level on top of, or separate, from experience. What you're asking for requires in-depth knowledge of the math that we build off of SimCraft, the experience to test and figure things out, and the ability to explain it to others, and mostly the time it takes to do all of those. Its rare to find someone that does 2 of those things well, there's only a few of them in the whole game.

The biggest reason why you don't see people "matching hundreds of thousands of work hours put into actual gameplay advice", is because nearly everyone does this FOR FREE!!! Pretty much everyone is doing this in their free time because they love it. Either they love the coding aspect and making the program, like SimCraft, work, like Hinalover *maybe*... or they love getting into the game and figuring out the nuance of ways to min/max hyper specific scenarios... or they like teaching people and helping others and giving them the best information available, like I do. Each of these things takes hundreds of hours to do to a high level. I have spent 40 hours between Friday-Sunday working on stuff for the site because Blizzard decides to change everything the weekend the put a major patch in, and I have done that multiple times. However, its just not practical to find someone, or someones, who are capable enough, and have the time to, do all of this together, and do it mostly for free.

If you want that hyperspecific situations, you'd have to pay them for their time, and I can't think of people who'd rather pay for someone to spoon feed them the 1000 different combinations of group comp, affix, difficulty level, and more, when someone can give them more general information and they can apply their own experience and critical thinking, to come up with the best solution.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree that most focus is on maths and a 1 target dummy explanation of it. Siming does not take long, so it's not like you don't have enough time to perfect executions etc. But yes, I haven't actually seen a guide at all, where they discuss stats/abilities together in different scenarios as you mentioned. There probably is a guide, but I just haven't stumbled upon it.

Theres not, for any spec that I'm aware of, and certainly not for Windwalker. Because that resource is just not needed. If Haste is always your least desirable stat, why explain how its least desirable in 100 different scenarios when "haste is your least desirable stat" will suffice 99.99% of the time.

[Parhelion]

So I think I see what you're saying; that there is seemingly a lot of time spent into SimCraft, and not as much put into class resources. I'm assuming that's what you're saying. I'm also somewhat bored at the end of my work day, so this is going to be a little bit overkill, and probably come across a bit snarky.

It is overkill And you're looking at it from your own perspective, which is okay, but not my point. I'm your user, I use the information you - and many others - provide and I'm really grateful for that information and effort invested. I play multiple classes, sim multiple characters, watch multiple videos and read multiple guides on various things wow-related.

My point is this: there are extremely detailed guides and extremely detailed information about almost everything WoW-related. Warcraftlogs and UndermineJournal, just to name two extremes. There is, however, very limited information about how and when to use specific abilities.

You can mock me and say "always use Fists of Fury when there are 5 targets" but that's not what I'm talking about.

Here's an example of what I am talking about:

BlackRook Hold - Amalgam of Souls

Communicate with your group if you are skipping trash mobs before Amalgam of Souls. If yes, be sure to have invis potions ready and/or to stay within the rogue Shroud of Concealment. If you're not skipping trash mobs, use the following strategies:

- Always interrupt Ghostly Councilors when they cast Dark Mending. Both Spear Hand strike and Leg Sweep works.
- There are always multiple mobs casting dangerous spells, so time your Leg Sweep to get as many casts interrupted as you can. If you have a warrior tank or another class that can AoE stun, try to set up an AoE stun rotation.
- If M+ level X or above (or X-Y if Fortified) use Touch of Death and SEF freely, as they will be up in time for the boss fight.

I'm not a very good monk and not a very good M+ player, but I think you can see how information like this could be very, very useful to players that are either new to the class, to the dungeon, or both.

[Babylonius]

I'm not a very good monk and not a very good M+ player, but I think you can see how information like this could be very, very useful to players that are either new to the class, to the dungeon, or both.

I absolutely see how that could be very useful to players. The answer to why that doesn't exist, like I said, is because its a lot of work to break down each pull of a dungeon for a dozen dungeons, then add details based on difficulty, affix, and comp. It takes hours and hours to do a dungeon enough to have that experience, and then it takes hours and hours to put it in a way that others can understand an emulate. The more you play the game, the more experience and knowledge of these nuances that you have, but the less time you have to put them into words in a guide.

Just think of how long it took you to write that. Even if it took you 5 minutes to come up with a write those lines. Now imagine how much experience you have in that pull, and how much time you've spent thinking about that. If you've done that pull 10 times this expansion, say you've spent an hour on it total. So then figure there's at least a dozen pulls, if not two dozen or more, in BRH alone that could, and you feel should, be broken down like that. Suddenly you're talking about potentially nearly a day's worth of total work, minimum, for one dungeon, and I'm going to safely say that I'm drastically underestimating the amount of time that it would take to do that all to a high level, probably by a factor of 10, at least.

So again, the reason it doesn't exist is because of the time that it would take to do all that for all the pulls of all the dungeons with that detail. There is a very small subset of people who have the experience, knowledge, and time to really understand and break down each pull of each dungeon that way. There's an even smaller group of people who have the time, capability, and willingness to provide guides for people. There's not always an overlap between these groups, specially when you add in the extra requirement that people demand this stuff for free.

Lastly, a big reason, is that although that information is good information, there isn't as much of a need in the larger community as you'd think. I can count the times that someone has asked for what you're asking for, this whole expansion, on just my fingers. Its good information, sure, but knowing and understanding the non-specific information and applying your own experience and critical thinking, will get you 99.99% of the way.

Additionally, we do have people working on stuff like this for Peak, it just takes time, but should start being rolled out shortly, with the goal of things going faster in BfA once we've ironed out the kinks.

[h29551442]

welcome to use SIMC

[Joxici]

Any updating for now ? 05/16