Why Democrats can’t win the ‘respect’ of Trump voters

[Mormolyce]

Almost certainly not where you think you did. It was a common histrionic myth of 2016 that Trump ran to right of Goldwater, but he didn't. He ran basically as a 1980s Democrat, but because the DNC literally has no game other than "brand the other side as extreme right wing racists bigots misogynists", the echo chamber filled with the idea that Trump had TEH MOST CONSERVATIVE CAMPAIGN EVAR. But he ran as an 80s Democray which is now essentially right of center so he could and did reach people who might have been 1992 Clinton and 2008 Obama voters and that is how he won. I mean, he had an entire name-branded faction of presumably reliable GOP votes opposing him (NeverTrump).

He ran as an 1880s Democrat perhaps.

Really, he ran as a racist and a transparent fraud. His pitch was to the hardcore bigot wing of the party, unlike say Bush Jr who was courting the religious right. I mean obviously there's a fair amount of overlap there, but the neo-cons forged an uncomfortable marriage between foreign policy hawks and bible thumpers, he went more for the secular bigots who tend to be more isolationist. All just different brands of social conservative.

Economically, he has no coherent policy because he doesn't give two shits about economics outside of lining his own pockets at the public's expense, however no matter which group of bigots is bringing in the rank and file votes, the small percentage of rich assholes who suck the blood of the party call the shots when it comes to economic matters, and so their game is the same as always - cut taxes and don't pay for it because that's too hard and we'll just blame the Democrats for the deficit anyway.

So yes any way you look at it, he's a conservative candidate. Also he's a lying crook and that always plays well among that crowd kek.

P.S. If you want to position him in 1980s politics, remember that REAGAN passed an amnesty that made the illegal immigrant population of the country full citizens. So he's far to the right of the Republican Party on that one. That would put him at about... well I'm afraid that's literally the American Nazi Party. Active in the 1980s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Nazi_Party

[Felya]

Does this mean Antifa are republicans?

Yes, GOP has been antifa until around November 2008.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

You're not engaging in the discussion I'm holding.

Neither is Orbitus or Mormolyce.

I explained what "winning over Trump voters" means. It doesn't mean being equally racist. It means generating a meaningful economic message. This has been an issue existing before Trump.

The fact that Trump is terrible. That Trump is useless. That Trump is ignorant. That Trump has created no growth. None of it has anything to do with the subject.

Trump is our president.. and traditionally democratic voters suddenly swapped for Trump. Fact.

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No substance to respond to... Just more vacuous thoughts.

"As a non American I probably care about things like truth".
"As a non American I probably don't mind voting for the real winner"
"As a non American I probably understand the values of color more"

It was a meaningful economic message it was the truth... They switched but we'll they regret it because that's the whole point someone had to be the adult in the room. It does he hoodwinked them and we told them from day one they don't want to listen and that's not my problem.

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the only thing the dem base want is for the rural folks to die off, been plainly evidence for years now. As to the politicians, well they only pander enough to get some votes then go back to to suckign the cocks of those with money per usual.

Can you blame republicans for anything or is the go to for you always deflecting to but da dems. Kansas was a decent state until the gop got a hold of it and they voted for the same policies over and over again that just made the situation worse. Can we just blame republicans for the crazy shit republicans do for once cause that how you fix problems.

Hillary wanted retraining programs in those areas and Obama was tougher on drug offender and pharmaceutical companies than Trump. The evidence was there and the policy was there they just don't give a shit. Trump proofed he was unqualified time and time again. He was fact checked as well what the fuck more do you people want.

The gop has done nothing but attempt to appease there donors.

[RyanEX]

You're not engaging in the discussion I'm holding.

Neither is Orbitus or Mormolyce.

I explained what "winning over Trump voters" means. It doesn't mean being equally racist. It means generating a meaningful economic message. This has been an issue existing before Trump.

The fact that Trump is terrible. That Trump is useless. That Trump is ignorant. That Trump has created no growth. None of it has anything to do with the subject.

Trump is our president.. and traditionally democratic voters suddenly swapped for Trump. Fact.

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No substance to respond to... Just more vacuous thoughts.

"As a non American I probably care about things like truth".
"As a non American I probably don't mind voting for the real winner"
"As a non American I probably understand the values of color more"

Translation, thinking about those things make me uncomfortable so I'll just ignore them and maybe they'll go away.

[Lenonis]

However, are all the people who voted for Trump xenophobic, homophobic, etc?

No. And I realize now I read this as "Trump supporters" vs "Trump voters" which are two very different categories of people.

I fully believe anyone who is still a Trump supporter at this time is a lost cause for the democratic party and should be treated as such. The rest? Absolutely, bring them back into the fold. Find out what made the vote against the democratic party and see if there is a way to fix it.

That may help put my previous comment in the proper context.

[Machismo]

The problem is the OP and other leftist actually believe this, yet they couldn't be further from the truth.

The Democrat party has become the socialist party. Blue collar americans do not support socialism.

Except Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA loans, the VA, crop subsidies, protectionism via tariffs, taxation on foreign goods and companies...

[Fugus]

the only thing the dem base want is for the rural folks to die off, been plainly evidence for years now. As to the politicians, well they only pander enough to get some votes then go back to to suckign the cocks of those with money per usual.

While I am an independent, I am left leaning and actually live on the outskirts and lived rural and actually spend a decent amount of time in those areas. I don't want rural folks to die off, never did. What I would like many of them to do is to educate themselves which most refuse to do as they are too set in their ways going with what their parents taught them and refuse to learn anything for themselves treating their views like it is a religion that is beyond question and if the facts contradict their beliefs, then the facts are whats wrong.

That view you think Democrats have towards you is part of the problem. If the rural citizens were just more open to new ideas and more willing to educate themselves, much of the divide wouldn't exist but they, by and large, unknowingly vote against their own best interests and bring the rest down with them because of it. Not because they are trying to throw themselves or their kids futures under the bus, but because they are set in their ways with beliefs that just don't match the data we have.

[Slybak]

Your definition of Liberalism is incorrect.

I didn't provide a definition of liberalism.

[Karfal]

Except Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA loans, the VA, crop subsidies, protectionism via tariffs, taxation on foreign goods and companies...

Ehh many of those are not supported by blue collar. Some are, some are. That's the point you're missing.

[Machismo]

Ehh many of those are not supported by blue collar. Some are, some are. That's the point you're missing.

And the point you are missing is that blue-collar workers love their socialism. They want the government to give them their safe spaces, and give them all the things they want... just like the liberals.

You let me know when all the blue-collar elderly folks start screaming to end their Social Security.

Also, let me know when you are willing to call Trump a liberal and a socialist for his big-government spending.

All you have demonstrated, is your own willful blindness.

[Karfal]

And the point you are missing is that blue-collar workers love their socialism. They want the government to give them their safe spaces, and give them all the things they want... just like the liberals.

You let me know when all the blue-collar elderly folks start screaming to end their Social Security.

Also, let me know when you are willing to call Trump a liberal and a socialist for his big-government spending.

All you have demonstrated, is your own willful blindness.

Not at all. And you're a fool if you think all blue collar people are Democrat. You're also a fool if you think all blue collar Democrats support all socialized programs.

There is some that dont, theres also a lot of maybe a majority of blue collar that are republican.

[Machismo]

Not at all. And you're a fool if you think all blue collar people are Democrat. You're also a fool if you think all blue collar Democrats support all socialized programs.

There is some that dont, theres also a lot of maybe a majority of blue collar that are republican.

You aren't really addressing what I'm saying. Plenty of blue-collar workers love their socialism. I pointed to many socialized programs. I never said they all had to support them all.

You still have yet to condemn Trump the liberal socialist (your words for others like him) for supporting the big-government spending. Sure, you wanted to blame it on liberals and socialists, but you gave Trump a pass.

Let me know when you are willing to be consistent.

[Fugus]

Not at all. And you're a fool if you think all blue collar people are Democrat. You're also a fool if you think all blue collar Democrats support all socialized programs.

There is some that dont, theres also a lot of maybe a majority of blue collar that are republican.

Most working class I know of actually support most of those programs, even the conservative ones when you go policy by policy. It is only the programs that THEY don't personally directly benefit from they seem to be against. Like all the ones you see who are against food stamps and consider all those on it to be moochers but only because they aren't collecting. The moment they hit hard times though, they switch that tune or at the least modify it where everyone else but them are moochers.


My favorite is my brother in law, against food stamps, the people on it are moochers. Collected $600 per month in food stamps for him and his kids but since it was in his wife's name, it doesn't count as him. Against government aid for healthcare, his 4-kids all had the government help with their healthcare, but since his wife did all the paperwork and not him, it doesn't count as him. Wife is diabetic hardcore to the point she has an insulin pump and ends up in the ER with her blood sugar acting up between 2 to 3 times a year and is thousands upon thousands in debt to the hospital because of it. Still against it because it isn't him.

He also claims he started from the bottom and worked his way up. He has a job doing mobile auto-glass and while he has been doing it over a decade and now does earn $1,000 per week, he started out making over $14 I believe. The fact of the matter is before that, he did illegal stuff for years and not sure if he lucked into a job that started out the gate paying more than half of all US jobs without requiring any kind of education or college or if he used his connections from doing the other stuff to buy his way into it. But either way, he didn't start working his way up legitimately till he got to jump on the latter already half way up instead of at the bottom. Before then he hustled to survive and didn't work his way up in the sense most people imply.


All blue collar people aren't democrats, the majority I have seen are though and even the conservative ones seem to only be against those programs till they hit a problem and need them or turn into complete hypocrites benefiting from it while pretending they aren't.

[Bullettime]

Not at all. And you're a fool if you think all blue collar people are Democrat. You're also a fool if you think all blue collar Democrats support all socialized programs.

There is some that dont, theres also a lot of maybe a majority of blue collar that are republican.

You're ignoring what he said. What he's pointing out is that blue collar people and elderly absolutely fucking love socialism...when it's a benefit to them. Try to go to any of those people and ask them to give up their food stamps, their social security checks, etc and you'll have one hell of a fight on your hands. Many of them always see themselves as an exception. "That other guy is a leech but I'm deserving!"

Hell, Paul Ryan himself was a welfare king and used it to put himself through college so he can become a professional politician and try to take welfare benefits from everyone. That's the standard mindset of way too many rural and blue collar people.

[Puddlejumper]

I did not vote for Trump, but I think I have enough direct exposure to people who did to be able to honestly assess their motivations. It seems to me that the main reason anybody would have voted for him is that they have the idea that politics is bad, and that Trump was the "flip the table" candidate, that would let them opt out of supporting the status quo in any way, shape, or form. It was their way of saying, "Screw the entire concept of pretending that any 'electable' candidate could ever represent me."

There are tons of individual reasons why a person might feel that way, but I think the main one is when the government implements things that force them to change. It isn't about personal benefit so much as personal momentum: anything that forces people to adapt to a new reality is always unpopular, and there really can't be too much of an argument that the US government has been more of a force for change than not, over the past 60 years, compared to the 100 years previous.

Conservatives are called conservatives because they will push back against change, for good or ill. Republicans aren't called the "moral" party or the "religious" party or the "self-interest" party. The way for Democrats to get those votes is very simple: don't ask them to change.

[Draco-Onis]

I think the video below pretty much summarizes why going for Trump voters is a waste of time. Here you have people who are literally losing their businesses because of Trump's policies but will still vote for him again, it's a cult plain and simple they blindly love the man.

[Mafic]

It is not a cult or a tribal mechanism that describes the phenomena of Trump support.

What drives Trump support is that people want personal sovereignty and freedom again which neither the Democratic party or Republican party are capable of providing. While Trump promotes nationalistic and patriotic themes which is indeed tribal in nature in the end it is about individual choice that he champions.

This idea of individual choice and freedom is appealing to people that align on either end of the political spectrum whether conservative or progressive. The reason why is that individual choice and freedom along with free speech are core principles of classical liberalism.

[Lenonis]

in the end it is about individual choice that he champions.

Unless you are transgender...or a woman seeking an abortion...or a journalist...or.....

[szechuan]

Unless you are transgender...or a woman seeking an abortion...or a journalist...or.....

Not to mention they are the party that supports a Gun Lobby Organization that blames everything but Guns and Constantly Lies and Misrepresent Facts.

[Powerogue]

Dedicated propaganda campaigns that do everything possible to isolate you from opponents counter most of that. It can't just be respect, it has to be very public where other people can see it. Even then it's an agonizingly slow process that usually requires entire generations of people too far gone to die off.

Speaking from the experience of seeing atheists in the US where there's dedicated groups who do nothing but churn out propaganda films 24/7 that paint atheists as literally Hitler. In my experience politics gets a lot of the same symptoms due to similarly being a hot button issue where people invest a sense of personal identity in it.