Is pvp dead in BFA?

[Dastreus]

Are you talking 1v1 or what? Because i dont Know of any class that could ”blow up” any other class unless they are very outgeared compared to their target OR they target is really bad at their class.

Any melee vs mage or priest. Spam interrupt, stuns, more interrupts, a silence if you got it. If done right, the poor caster won't get a single cast off. (Assuming also you can burst.)

[ilik2345]

War mode kinda leaves me cold, i will try it, but i have never loved world pvp and yes i played in vanilla, i don't get why people want to focus on it. Equally i don't understand why the dev's thought one sided killing of players in a gcd or two for world pvp was fun. My personal idea of fun for pvp is when both sides have a chance to win, if the entire fight is decided by 1 hit, or even many hits if, the one being attacked stands no hope of fighting back, then thats not pvp to me, that's just ganking/trolling.

So far i have seen zero interest in the dev's in actual instanced pvp, all they seem to be interested in is bringing back world pvp, like it was some mythical lost nirvana in wow's pvp history.

[MRDK]

I just need to post something

[unstableone]

Expecting a disaster worse than the past 2 expansions.

Previous mistakes repeated all over again.
X class got Y ability in mop/wod because it needed it but can't have it now because...reasons?

more pruning and less pvp talents available
at least 2 classes gaining offensive dispel (dk/hunter)
disarms still a thing
no pvp vendors

high mobility classes basically untouched
some low mobility classes nerfed mobility further

profession items like tailoring net, engineering grenades (root/stun/disorient/slow)

[Deleted]

World pvp is very much alive in beta right now.

[Tya]

People say PvP dies every expansion, and yet... people continue to do it. It may look bleak now, but you might be surprised as BfA plays out.

No they don't. They say it died in WoD, because participation rates dropped off a cliff. And then what was left was decimated again, because the Legion reward system didn't exist for the first year of the expansion.

[Cagil]

I like the new war mode that is going to be implemented. World PvP will be an option for all.

[niyololz]

yeah pretty much

[Betlax]

Battle for Azeroth will bring a new pvp battle. It's the return of pvp boys!

[Kagthul]

100% more opinion, EVEN MORE FAIL....

perhaps you'd like to post the "facts" that prove him wrong?

oh.. can't?

Because you're a troll?

'swhat i thought.

Last season of WoD had almost 500,000 people on the ladder.

the last season of Legion (not the current season, since its not over and numbers are't in)... less than 60k.

PvP participation utterly collapsed in Legion.

[mcm944]

hearing good things about world pvp. cant wait to test it out in bfa

[Tya]

Clearly, you haven't been visiting this forum all that long, or you are turning a blind eye to anything, and everything that is a PvP discussion. Every. Single. Expansion has had the claim that PvP has been killed.

If you're taking PvP advice from MMO-C then something is very wrong.

[lolpve]

PvP has been dead in WoW for at least a decade.

Pvp was half decent cata and "ok" in MoP. I would say the hardcore pvp community has been dead the last 2 expansions and it probably isn't coming back.

Pvp undoubtably peaked sometime in wotlk when player numbers were highest and arena was far more popular than raiding. In fact for most of WoW's peak years the game was carried by pvp much to the chagrin of pve carebears who like to pretend that pvp never mattered. If WoW is to regain even half of its subscribers then it needs to refocus on good pvp.

[Caolela]

... If WoW is to regain even half of its subscribers then it needs to refocus on good pvp.

`


...and good luck with that.

Blizzard's focus on "good" PvP (lulz) is in other titles like OW and HotS, and will not be in WoW again. It's too far down the shithole for that now. Remember, whatever PvP was like in Wrath or MoP was well before they rolled out those cash cows.

That doesn't count their looking the other way on the carries/pilots/scripters that has been going on for years in WoW. A few lame-assed "bans" for PR purposes once or twice a year is just propaganda.

Those people who are still holding on indefinitely for WoW to reverse itself and turn into something decent are living in a fucking dream world.

IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

[Tyrean]

Warmode will not fix anything. The people that will be leveling in warmode will be in two camps, the ones who want to level efficiently and the ones who want to gank. The efficient levelers will do what they already do on pretty much every PvP realm currently and just ignore each other. The gankers will gank and you will just turn off warmode for a bit until you move areas and go back to the efficient leveling.

Once you are at level cap there will be people that have warmode on for fun, but the majority of people will turn it off unless there is an overwhelming reward reason for doing so. Open world pvp is not a reward in itself.

Also, saying that warmode is alive and well on beta is confirmation bias. The people that are on beta are not the average player, they have no worry of time lost because there characters are temporary and they are looking to test things out and see how they will function for them when working on their live characters.

TLDR: When the game goes live warmode will be nothing but a leveling perk.

EDIT: I also wanted to say that I think rated will be better in BFA because there will be more people playing. The old conquest system rewarded players for participation in a meaningful way so the ladder was filled with people to climb over. Currently the rated ladders are an extremely small subset of the population where you fight the top tier players over and over again on their alts. When you are at 1900 in rated, you are essentially playing glad level players on alts at pretty much any given time. There are simply not enough actual players on the ladder currently for it to be healthy, but once the old reward system is back in place it will be instantly better.

[rda]

EDIT: I also wanted to say that I think rated will be better in BFA because there will be more people playing. The old conquest system rewarded players for participation in a meaningful way so the ladder was filled with people to climb over. Currently the rated ladders are an extremely small subset of the population where you fight the top tier players over and over again on their alts. When you are at 1900 in rated, you are essentially playing glad level players on alts at pretty much any given time. There are simply not enough actual players on the ladder currently for it to be healthy, but once the old reward system is back in place it will be instantly better.

What they call conquest in BFA is not at all what was conquest before. It's the same word, but it means something completely different.

First, you aren't choosing what you are going to buy, the system rolls the dice for you. You then "work towards" getting the chosen piece, you cannot change it, you can only "earn" it and then the system will roll the dice again to determine the next item.

Second, the ilvl is not fixed and is not capped, it grows indefinitely. So, this is just like world quests which give you items slightly above your current ilvl. And because of this, it is going to be much easier to just farm world quests / other PVE content. Because if it ever becomes easier to farm BGs, Blizzard will simply fix that.

I don't think BFA PVP will have more people than Legion PVP. They are changing too little and their changes don't really make things better, they are mostly inconsequential. And what they are doing to classes / specs isn't exactly better than even Legion (which was already a disaster on that front), to put it mildly. I don't see much good, just a little good, a bunch of bad and a whole bunch of nothing being done.

[Tyrean]

I don't disagree with any of that. My point was that the current reward system is pretty terrible for those casual players that filled the ladder for over a decade. So what you are left with is the players that choose PvP as their main activity. The conquest system is a little different than you describe though, it is not a random piece after the cap, but rather the next piece in your set. So there will be a lot of players that are simply slogging through arena or RBG for the guaranteed transmog and that is really what the community needs since it is apparent over the last two expansions that the actual PvP community is really rather small.

I did some napkin math and right now based on the title cutoffs for Alliance in North America there are roughly 36,000 RBG players and roughly 37,000 arena players. That is really insignificant.

I also think the removal of the templates will bring a small number of people back as well. Letting you make choices with your gear and just have the power scaled is better than templates really.

[Kagthul]

I don't disagree with any of that. My point was that the current reward system is pretty terrible for those casual players that filled the ladder for over a decade. So what you are left with is the players that choose PvP as their main activity. The conquest system is a little different than you describe though, it is not a random piece after the cap, but rather the next piece in your set. So there will be a lot of players that are simply slogging through arena or RBG for the guaranteed transmog and that is really what the community needs since it is apparent over the last two expansions that the actual PvP community is really rather small.

The rated PvP community is rather small, and, as a percentage of the player base, always was. Casual PvPers made up/make up a HUGE percentage of people who play(ed) end-game PvP in random BGs.

Prior to Legion, the number of people with the 25k Conquest/Season achievements always hovered between 42-47% of the entire player base, so, clearly, a lot of people were active in PvP. Only about 10% of that number (so about 4-5% of the total player base) had Arena achievements, meaning that the other 90% (or ~38ish% of the player base) got those 25k Conquest points from doing randos and other activities that granted Conquest.

I did some napkin math and right now based on the title cutoffs for Alliance in North America there are roughly 36,000 RBG players and roughly 37,000 arena players. That is really insignificant.

Wow.. that is really abysmal. Lower than i thought, honestly. (I hadn't been arsed to check the numbers since Legion Season One was such a failure). Thats an almost 90% drop from the last season of WoD, which was, at the time, the lowest the ladder had ever been.

I also think the removal of the templates will bring a small number of people back as well.

I dont recall them removing templates. Source?

Letting you make choices with your gear and just have the power scaled is better than templates really.

They just need to admit it was a failure and go back to the gearing system from WoD. While the quality of PvP itself in WoD was sorta trashy, they had finally nailed the gear thing dead-on.

The best gear for PvP came from PvP. Period. The best gear for PvE came from PvE, period. The swapping iLevels assured that, and having Conquest gear be about equivalent to Normal Raid gear in PvE was a good choice. It allowed PvPers who wanted to dip their toes into PvE to not be a huge burden on their raid, but given that a lot of the PvP gear wasn't itemized particularly well for PvE it still wasn't the optimal choice.

Honor gear was trivially easy to get, and made you completely viable (it being only 9.4% behind full Conquest gear), and was low enough iLevel in PvE to never be the optimal choice.

Being able to slowly earn good gear was what kept both the casual queues full and the ladder inflated - because the semi-casuals who didn't really care about rating but didn't want to plod to their weekly CQ cap at 75 points per Random BG Win would prop up the lower parts of the ladder to get their points quicker.

Given that by the best achievements we're able to track for PvP now, even Casual participation is down massively (went from ~45% of the population having 25K Conquest achievements (which is a full set of gear) to less than 5% having Prestige 8 (which is roughly the equivalent of having the 25k CQ achievement for ONE season)... at all.

Thats a 90%+ drop off.

Let that sink in.

[Tyrean]

https://youtu.be/AUik9-2ygS8?t=1917

Is where he starts talking about PvP stuff.

https://youtu.be/AUik9-2ygS8?t=2455

That is where he talks about scaling.

Essentially there will still be the random gear from wins, and still the random gear from the weekly just like it is now but you will also have the conquest bar that fills up and rewards a set rotation of gear that increases in ilvl each time you complete it. So week one is helm, week two chest, etc. When you complete the set it bumps up the ilvl. I bet it will be more like wrist-ring-neck-etc ending in weapon. There will also be conquest catch up like before so if you start late or miss a week or two you don't lose anything.

The scaling was that they want trinkets, etc to be a thing in pvp again but they want to use the outdoor zone level scaling tech and apply it to items. So I might be ilvl 500 but if current pvp scaling is 300 then I have all my gear and stats just scaled down to 300 and everyone else scaled up to 300. So I still get to choose if I want to stack mastery or haste or whatever, but the field is leveled.

[Drektorath]

Why such the negative attitude =/?