BFA SPOILERS - Alleria and Umbric Sabotaging Their Own Long-Term Goals

[Thalassian Bob]

"One day Silvermoon will stand again on the side of the Alliance. I know it." - Alleria Windrunner

"But the Alliance is where our people belong. I am more certain of that now than ever before. Stay the course, [your void elf here]. Show our comrades in the Alliance that we fight for the same cause. One day the Horde's grip on our land will be broken, and the children of Quel'Thalas will stand united once more.
I know it." - Magister Umbric

Noble sentiments from both of these patriotic Thalassians, right? They wish for nothing more than to see all the children of Silvermoon united and fighting together for a common cause.

So, why is it that they are actively helping Halford Wyrmbane and Shandris Feathermoon who, in the second part of the Alliance War Campaign, decided to murder "Arlethal Sunwatcher, highest member of the Reliquary"?

I am assuming that this "Sunwatcher" is actually supposed to be Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher, but Blizzard, in their consistent "Isn't Falstad dead?" competence, obviously forgot his name.

I sincerely hope that Alleria and Umbric were not made privy to the plan to assassinate High Examiner Blood(Sun)watcher, because, among Silvermoon's leadership, he would likely have been one of the people most sympathetic to their pleas for all Thalassians to reunite because that is something he has shown vocal support for himself! Not only that, but he also claimed to be working towards ridding Thalassian elves of their addiction to magic, which the re-ignition of the Sunwell only served to stave off for the foreseeable future, rather than cure.

"You see, there are ancient, powerful relics found throughout this world that I plan to use to free my people from their addiction and unify them again as the proud, indomitable race we once were." - High Examiner Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher

You know what really brings a people over to your way of thinking? Helping the people who murder one of your nation's leaders who dedicated themselves to helping the populace and working towards reunification!

If Bloodwatcher's death is something that Alleria and Umbric are aware of and willing to condone then they are truly naive to believe that their blood elf kin would be able to forgive the Alliance for this aggression and just come waltzing back into the blue fold like in the 'good ol' days'...

Either they are ignorant of the Alliance leadership's actions (which I doubt considering how close to the top they are) or Umbric is just a desperate moron and Alleria, like her youngest sister, is a Thalassian who is more loyal to a hostile faction than to her homeland and countrymen.

I had such high hopes for Alleria's return, but it would seem that she is just another treacherous Windrunner. Lireesa must be rolling in her grave...

[Arrashi]

Honestly i would say that both umbric and alleria already have medium/heavy brain damage due to void overdose and are clearly deranged. Them talking nice means nothing. Hell, maybe they actually believe that. But as it usually goes with delusional people, what they think rarely matches what they are doing.

[Deleted]

Because elves are evil, treacherous and dumb, a dangerous cocktail. Look at Umbric, who is somehow happy to kill his own people just.. because. Look at Thallysra, who is willing to attack half of the people who liberated her shitty city just.. because. And let's not forget Kael'thas, who betrayed the man that saved him and his wretched race from justice, just.. because. And don't get me started on Sylvanas, Liadrin or Illidan.

[TheRagebear]

Because they're Alliance heroes and need to be written as stupid so that the Horde actually stands a chance.

[Dybia]

There's the fact that the reliquary is an archaeology group working for the horde in a world where archaeologists consistently discover and reactivate potentially world ending super weapons and reclaim ancient magic devices. So yes, they want Silvermoon to rejoin the alliance, but that doesn't mean they can just let the Reliquary supply the horde with new discoveries in the meantime.

[Stelio Kontos]

Because elves are evil, treacherous and dumb, a dangerous cocktail. Look at Umbric, who is somehow happy to kill his own people just.. because. Look at Thallysra, who is willing to attack half of the people who liberated her shitty city just.. because. And let's not forget Kael'thas, who betrayed the man that saved him and his wretched race from justice, just.. because. And don't get me started on Sylvanas, Liadrin or Illidan.

Hope you're ready for elfbois from each side to rush to defend their faction's elves.

[TheRagebear]

Hope you're ready for elfbois from each side to rush to defend their faction's elves.

Each side? He only mentioned Horde elves and one neutral elf that is now locked away because he would prove inconvenient for the Horde if he were still around. Makes one wonder why he felt the need to help the pantheon keep space Satan in check as if he could do much more than they could already...

/thinkingemojitimes100

[Stelio Kontos]

Each side? He only mentioned Horde elves and one neutral elf that is now locked away because he would prove inconvenient for the Horde if he were still around. Makes one wonder why he felt the need to help the pantheon keep space Satan in check as if he could do much more than they could already...

/thinkingemojitimes100

Yeah, but the forum has some weird void elf RP-posters, in addition to the lockstop "The Horde Does No Wrong" usual suspects.

[Thalassian Bob]

Because elves are evil, treacherous and dumb, a dangerous cocktail. Look at Umbric, who is somehow happy to kill his own people just.. because. Look at Thallysra, who is willing to attack half of the people who liberated her shitty city just.. because. And let's not forget Kael'thas, who betrayed the man that saved him and his wretched race from justice, just.. because. And don't get me started on Sylvanas, Liadrin or Illidan.

You can argue that of all Azeroth's races if you choose only the worst among them as their representatives.

There's the fact that the reliquary is an archaeology group working for the horde in a world where archaeologists consistently discover and reactivate potentially world ending super weapons and reclaim ancient magic devices. So yes, they want Silvermoon to rejoin the alliance, but that doesn't mean they can just let the Reliquary supply the horde with new discoveries in the meantime.

Capturing Tae'thelan I could absolutely understand, but outright attacking and killing him? Granted he may be a powerful magister, but presumably he and the members of the Reliquary would class as non-combatants if they're in the middle of an excavation.

[RyanEX]

You're assuming that they have meta knowledge of what the Reliquary plans to do with what they find. For all we know, in WW2 Yamamoto was on his way to the secret meeting with plans to have Japan surrender after they lost their aircraft carriers and before Iwo Jima. Before he was...you know...shot down.

[Deleted]

You can argue that of all Azeroth's races if you choose only the worst among them as their representatives.

Those are not the "worst amongst them", those are the elf leaders and most important characters. And I don't see any other Azeroth race betraying and switching sides every other year for no discernable reason.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The void elves, much like Alleria, are just detached from reality, and they'll kill any blood elf they come across and then they will shriek incoherently when Silvermoon still wont join them.

Lor'themar, nearly any Blood elf leader has done more for their people than Alleria could ever dream. Further attacks on their leadership just hammer in the poor idiot windrunner plot they smacked Vereesa with, and she'll end up sad and bitter than the majority of her people despise her and still not understand why.

[Qualia]

So, why is it that they are actively helping Halford Wyrmbane and Shandris Feathermoon who, in the second part of the Alliance War Campaign, decided to murder "Arlethal Sunwatcher, highest member of the Reliquary"?

If Bloodwatcher's death is something that Alleria and Umbric are aware of and willing to condone then they are truly naive to believe that their blood elf kin would be able to forgive the Alliance for this aggression and just come waltzing back into the blue fold like in the 'good ol' days'...

I had such high hopes for Alleria's return, but it would seem that she is just another treacherous Windrunner. Lireesa must be rolling in her grave...

Firstly, there is a fundamental difference between their goals. It's true that all of them - Alleria, Umbric and the High Examiner (let's assume Arlethal and Tae'thelan is the same person and it's just Beta mess-ups, instead of a more trivial explanation of Arlethal simply replaced Tae'thelan offscreen at some point between Legion and BfA) - wanted to unify their people together. However, what set them apart is that High Examiner only want to unify the High / Blood Elves, period. On the other hand, Alleria and Umbric not only want to do so, but also want to bring them back to the Alliance. Alleria and Umbric's goal is centralized on both their people AND their new (former?) home, the Alliance. As much of a good leader Tae'thelan could be, as long as he doesn't sympathize with your course and works for your enemy's benefits - at the time being, the Horde, he is an enemy to be removed. One of the oldest "diplomacy" maneuver: if a leader doesn't want to work with us for peace, we can just remove and replace him with someone else who is more willing to. It's not like we have never done this in real life either, is it?

Moreover, the matter of whether "their blood elf kin would be able to forgive the Alliance for this aggression" is a non-issue. It's a war casualty - if they have to care about that, they might as well give immunity to all Blood Elves leaders - which obviously isn't a realistic option. Additionally, there hasn't been any indication that Tae'thelan is so much loved by the BE that their people would still throw themselves against the winner even after Sylvanas is defeated (which is generally the goal of the Alliance for now) and the Horde decide to go for peace after losing. The wound in people's heart (if there is even any) will heal in time.

[Thalassian Bob]

You're assuming that they have meta knowledge of what the Reliquary plans to do with what they find. For all we know, in WW2 Yamamoto was on his way to the secret meeting with plans to have Japan surrender after they lost their aircraft carriers and before Iwo Jima. Before he was...you know...shot down.

I suppose so. I still think Umbric and Alleria are woefully naive if they think they can convince Silvermoon to return to the Alliance if their Alliance comrades are going to be assassinating their top brass during this conflict.

Those are not the "worst amongst them", those are the elf leaders and most important characters. And I don't see any other Azeroth race betraying and switching sides every other year for no discernable reason.

Admittedly, the flip-flopping of Quel'Thalas is amusing, but when Varian gets pissed about negotiations with Silvermoon being ruined, we don't know what Lor'themar's response to him would have been. He may have turned down Varian the way he turned down Alleria more recently. The blood elves seem more dedicated to the Horde now than ever before, judging by Liadrin's eagerness to enter the fray in Arathi.

Well, you could point to the Dwarven leadership and the amount of each other's blood they have spilled because of their infighting, Stormwind's treatment of the masons and workers who would become the Defias Brotherhood, Greymane's turning his back on his human neighbors in Lordaeron during their darkest hour. Representatives from upper echelon's of most of the races of Azeroth have blood on their hands at this point in history.

[Apokavkos]

You're assuming that they have meta knowledge of what the Reliquary plans to do with what they find. For all we know, in WW2 Yamamoto was on his way to the secret meeting with plans to have Japan surrender after they lost their aircraft carriers and before Iwo Jima. Before he was...you know...shot down.

I giggled at this.

[Ersula]

Admittedly, the flip-flopping of Quel'Thalas is amusing, but when Varian gets pissed about negotiations with Silvermoon being ruined, we don't know what Lor'themar's response to him would have been. He may have turned down Varian the way he turned down Alleria more recently. The blood elves seem more dedicated to the Horde now than ever before, judging by Liadrin's eagerness to enter the fray in Arathi.

If you remember what happened when Void Elves went near the Sunwell in their acqusition questline, they have no worries about what kind of void creature manipulate them. I suppose a possible major patch during BFA might include the void elves capturing the sunwell, and corrupting it, releasing all kinds of void horrors upon the world. Alleria couldn't even tell she was being used by her void essence.

With Teldrassil & Stormwind burning down, Lordaeron getting ransacked, I expect losing *all* old capital cities over the course of this expansion. And that's fine because every expansion gives us a new shiny capital city to spend our time in.

[Nathasil]

Admittedly, the flip-flopping of Quel'Thalas is amusing, but when Varian gets pissed about negotiations with Silvermoon being ruined, we don't know what Lor'themar's response to him would have been. He may have turned down Varian the way he turned down Alleria more recently. The blood elves seem more dedicated to the Horde now than ever before, judging by Liadrin's eagerness to enter the fray in Arathi.

Well, you could point to the Dwarven leadership and the amount of each other's blood they have spilled because of their infighting, Stormwind's treatment of the masons and workers who would become the Defias Brotherhood, Greymane's turning his back on his human neighbors in Lordaeron during their darkest hour. Representatives from upper echelon's of most of the races of Azeroth have blood on their hands at this point in history.

Isn't that the case for ~90% of all major and minor characters in BFA? Characters who you would assume to be very sceptical of plunging themselves into a blind faction-pride-frenzy somehow all start to shout this "FOR THE HORDIANCE!"-bullshit. The sickness has spread more on the Horde side, but Alliance is also infected. For me personally, Thalyssra, Garona und Voss are really the 3 prime examples of characters that have een totally and utterly rewritten to somehow fit into this faction-war story.

I guess most us were waiting for the ACTUAL reason, why the Horde follows Sylvanas into war against the Alliance, after working together with their Alliance classmates for 2 years without any incidents. We waited patiently...because we all assumed "Let's have a war!" could not be the reason...but it is. It just is. There is no more to it. Sylvanas is the only person on Azeroth who wants this war....because reasons. And the Horde follows her because she has treated them so well since she took the mantle! ...oh wait...she actually betrayed them...THREE FUCKING TIMES ALREADY...in just two years.
1. She promised to avenge Vol'jin - and did jack shit against the legion afterwards.
2. She allied with Helya, even when the Horde PC was taken capture by her. Potentially leaving you to rot there.
3. BFT novel - the biggest one.

But they still follow her....because reasons.

The only players who are actually looking forwarde to this story are the ones who just want this war even if there is no cause. Who needs a cause? Who needs a story? Who needs reasons? Just killing each other shouting bullshit while we are at it is good enough. Sadly, the rest of us try and make sense of these dialogues and character stories that BFA tries to sell....and are left in the dark. Because there is no light at the end of this tunnel.

I'm not against war. I'm not for it, either. I'm for convicing story. If there is a reason to have a war...let's go for it. Even if that reason is just one faction being evil and attacking unprovoked. That's still a reason. But so far BFA has not delivered any reason at all why the Horde should follow Sylvanas. None.

More OT:
Nice observation with this character. I did not know him. Reminded me of General Hawthorne in Cataclysm.

[Sangris]

Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher and Arlethal Sunwatcher have completely different character models, so I doubt that it was just a fuckup with the character names. So far they didn't kill any prominent character off in any of the war campaigns, only NPCs they pretty much made up just for these quests.

Which doesn't mean you're wrong about Umbric and Alleria though. The void seems to have dumbed them down to Vereesa-levels of insanity.

[cparle87]

The Reliquary...artifacts...wait...did Starcraft come to Azeroth?

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Reliquary

Where have you been since Cata? Either you never quested in Badlands or Blasted Lands Horde-side or have never done a thing with archaeology since it was added.

[Goldielocks]

Umbric being pro Alliance makes no sense at all. The Horde didn't do anything to him. Only Silvermoon did. The irony here is that if Umbric went to Sylvanas after being kicked out of Silvermoon, she would have taken them in, just like she took the Nightborne in. She wants more power.

This is a really lazy attempt to justify the Void Elves being Alliance. Honestly, Alleria holding their own sanity over them so they'd fight for the Alliance makes more sense and that idea should be the one that's pushed.