~80% tank threat reduction on beta

[rda]

A MMORPG where you are dependent on other players

what kind of heresy is this!

Some dependencies are good, others are bad. Apparently you think all dependencies are good. Well, that's silly.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

If they bring back hard ccing pulls like the burning crusade, I'm probably gonna quit that shit was boring. Aoeing everything down is aids and so it picking and choosing who you want to fight. There is a middle ground and I'm just done with experimenting(doing the same shit over and over again).

Mobs can't do anything to fight back against cc and it only punishes retards but does nothing to challenge good players.

[Hyrja]

They're trying to introduce old wow gameplay mechanics. Why would they though?

[rda]

No i think exactly what i wrote

Cool, then that's silly. Generalizations often are silly.

[Magnagarde]

It's just another vanilla-styled redundant change, just like leveling. They then pair it up with modern features and leave you scratching your head as to what the hell they were thinking.

Perma-skittish dungeons are not fun, unless they design the dungeons in a way that they are, which they clearly haven't.

[shaunika123]

No i think exactly what i wrote, please go away with your assumptions

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Stopping chain pulling and kiting

yeah, let's stop two of the most fun aspects of mythic+

[Deleted]

I had a lot more fun tanking back when it was more about threat and less about mitigation. It was more fun as dps as well, doing CC, picking the right target, sometimes sacrificing yourself to peel a mob off the healer etc. With the awful design of today which is to pull large groups to AoE them down and be done in 5 minutes it wouldn't work though :-(

[Logwyn]

I had a lot more fun tanking back when it was more about threat and less about mitigation. It was more fun as dps as well, doing CC, picking the right target, sometimes sacrificing yourself to peel a mob off the healer etc. With the awful design of today which is to pull large groups to AoE them down and be done in 5 minutes it wouldn't work though :-(

I agree. We've crossed the line with the "gogogo" and mythic speed runs. Is no skill in these just like you said gather them up and AOEeeeeeeeee.

[Nnyco]

Also a good thing

hardly true

[Rtrain]

I wonder for what purpose and to what end this thread reduction was implemented?

So that people have to tell the dps to go slow? I read early on they wanted to reduce tank self-healing, but now they rather reduce aggro. Is this to stop AoE nuking or what?

I would really like to know what this is supposed to achieve. I somehow don't see a benefit so far.

Gives the tanks a new responsibility, makes tricks and misdirection much more desirable, and forces tanks to actually tank and not enable some kiting meta like we’ve seen in some higher keys.

[rda]

Gives the tanks a new responsibility, makes tricks and misdirection much more desirable, and forces tanks to actually tank and not enable some kiting meta like we’ve seen in some higher keys.

The 'forces tanks to actually tank' bit is BS, tanks actually tank right now just fine.

Did you ask the tanks whether they want this new responsibility? Because we aren't talking about things like picking up mobs - tanks have to do so now just as well. We are talking merely about things like tab-targeting and keeping threat even. And maybe sometimes diverting resources from defense to damage because a particular mob is about to go off so screw the healers trying to keep me up, I am going to hit the mob instead of increasing my armor. Did you ask them if they actually wanted this new responsibility? Because I assure you not all tanks want it, it is far from fun for many.

And most importantly, you forgot the DPS. Sure, fine, let's say some tanks like being responsible for threat. But DPS just got miserable. All of them, especially good ones. Does mild fun of some tanks compensate for all DPS being worse off??? I don't think so. In fact, this is why this threat was scaled down to current microscopic proportions where it mostly doesn't matter in the first place. Who'd have thought.

[McFuu]

The only thing this accomplishes is forcing all rogues,hunters to use misdirect/tricks of the trade on cd. You still can't pull aggro off a tank on single target unless the tank is completely afk, thus it is only a minor annoyance during aoeing trash/adds down.

It also could potentially effect m+ group composition. If it shows up as a bigger AOE issue, any class that can transfer or drop threat will be more desired, although outside of rogue/hunter with tott/MD, I think shadow priest has a flat threat reduction button...
Not saying I don't like this change, I do, I remember the day of running threat meters, target focus tank macros, etc... All of that has become pointless since most of Wrath.
It felt like a bit of a skill drop.

[Nnyco]

very true infact if you think (i know hard) how the standard game dev cycle works and how few people left in blizzard that actually played the game and why it got popular in the first place.

yeah because millions bought the game because of mechanics

so much about "knowing hard"

[Kralljin]

Does this mean we'll also see the return of Totem of Tranquil air and Blessing of Salvation?

Pah, who am i kidding, that's Paladin and Shaman stuff, better give it to Warlock, because reasons.

[RoKPaNda]

This is another one of those "BACK IN MY DAY!" nostalgia changes. We always talk about how different tanking used to be, but honestly I don't think anyone really wants to go back to that bullshit, I know I don't. Juggling mobs because I'm in a group with idiots is anything but a fun experience.

[oldgeezer]

The threat management meta game is back? Bad idea. Doubtless it'll be reverted soon enough. In the meantime, wait for 5 sunders.

[Thrif]

I'm not sure if any of this will fly these days. Times have changed. Players have changed.

Yeah. And considering how horrible a majority of LFR/LFD players are most of them will never understand this new mechanic and just get angry at tanks or healers and never listen to a word anyone have for them how they could improve themselves, because they're all method raiders that just haven't been discovered.

But hey, if you enjoy clown fiestas it's gonna be fun. If you enjoy decently long ques, you're not.

I would love tanks to have tools to build up their threat instead of it building up passively, say, for a warrior you would have a threat generating ability, damage mitigation ability and damage dealing ability, and you would have to balance them out so you can both hold aggro of mobs or boss, don't get beaten into a pulp and provide some DPS when needed. There would be way more difference between a bad tank, a good tank and a great tank.

This would be amazing honestly. Good players would have a lot of things to do and the role would be engaging and interesting for them, and bad players would at least learn to spam whatever ability that generates threat so they could tank LFR/LFD without causing a ton of wipes and turning people off of the role. A solution that caters to all kinds of tanks in all instances of play, as it should be.

[rda]

By the way, for those who think they like the change, you know what it will boil down to? Simple.

Say I am on my tank. Do I do anything different from now? What?? No. I mean, maybe I pay a little more attention to appearing adds and patrols. However, I am already doing that, not sure what "more" even could be, I am grabbing them the moment they appear. No, what will change is that if a DPS pulls, that will now be his fault, not mine. Because, you see, Blizzard re-added threat as a factor and "we all now have to manage it together". That's the extent of the change on me as a tank. Nothing different in gameplay, just who gets the blame if the threat falls. Not sure where the fun is supposed to be.

And when I am a DPS, it's just tons of bad with zero good. Can't DPS because I am bumping the tank. So fun, I am in tears.

Who does this change serve? So far I only see the devs who did one more idiotic change for the sake of change and so that they can say that they "are moving back to the roots" and are overall serious about the state of the game, bla bla bla.

[Wondercrab]

Much like the times they've tried this before, it'll make no real difference to the gameplay outside of mild annoyances for DPS in some AoE situations, and then after a little while they'll ramp it back up.

Threat as a minigame only works when you give DPS tools with which to manage their threat. Since all of those have long since been removed, there's no interesting gameplay to be gained from it. Waiting until you can start AoEing isn't fun or challenging, it's just tedious. This seems like another of those weird changes that forgets why they gave tanks such high threat generation in the first place.

[Akka]

yep hit that strawman harder baby.

just because you CAN play around the bad tank, doesnt mean its not you who's punished by it.

That's the whole concept of team content : everyone is affected by everyone else. Duh.

being dependent on others=/= being punished for others' mistake

Actually, yes it kinda does. I'm dependent on others to kill a boss (and they're dependent on me). If other people screw up, I can't kill the boss, I'm directly "punished" by their screw-up. Welcome, again, to the concept of teamplay.

it's not the tank who's gonna die if he's bad, it's the dps.

Correction, the DPS will die if BOTH the tank and him are bad. If you can't manage your aggro, you're just as much to blame as the tank who can't manage to get good threat.

Your mentality is precisely the kind of thing that threat was great for : killing baddies who can't take responsibility nor be a team player. And team content which punish people don't play as a team is good design.