Game is becoming increasingly dumbed down

[Deleted]

That's just you being inefficient.
I never had any problems binding all spells.
True, I used a few makros with modifiers, but informing yourself about how to write a macro is no worse than informing yourself about stat priorities.

Okay then.

[Ophenia]

That looks obvious, they want to please everyone, because we're in 2018 and you're not allowed to discriminate anyone.

To me, the biggest hit in the face was the removal of DoT Snapshotting. They didn't even hide their intentions, the goal was clearly to reduce the gap between good and bad players.
I don't really care about LFR introduction and whatever, but dumbing down everything lowers the skill of the overall playerbase. Why trying to be better if that's the content which re-aligns to you, instead of forcing you to actually improve yourself ?
LFR was actually a step in the good direction as it was announced. Lower numbers but same mechanics. Only the highest difficulty (Heroic then Mythic) had extra mechanics. But now we have LFR without any mechanic (who thought it was a great idea to remove the debuff on Varimathras ? To remove the necessity of dual-tanking Varimathras ? To remove the Shivarra's debuff ? To remove the Foe Breaker from Aggramar ? Hell to fucking remove the Maiden from Avatar ? What are you supposed to learn ?), then Normal with missing mechanics, Heroic which is actually decent, and Mythic in a good place except maybe the pacing of some raids (easy af until a brick wall). Nothing here calls for progression. You're a normal raider ? Raid normal, don't even move to Heroic, nobody cares.

[Deleted]

Before it took months for people to clear a new raid. Now it takes days... says it all.

When I was 14 I was unable to solve a simple equation, now I do it easily. Obviously equations have gotten easier.

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The difference between a good player and a bad player? The gap is getting smaller and smaller.

For sure. Back in Vanilla the good mages had completely mastered the 1 button rotation, while the bad players actually sometimes used other spells. Oh the noobs! Shit was hard back then for sure! And, get this.. In Wrath, sometimes holy paladins actually stopped spamming HL of FoL on the tanks to cast something else! What are they, retarded?! Nah man, those one button rotations took serious skill.

[therealstegblob]

It's a sad fact since Activision Blizzard released Cataclysm their main task was to dumb down everything so that they can cator to casuals rather than their hardcore audience.

I know this post is old and it's a, well, a post by The Varyag and everything but I did want to point out that this comment is shockingly dumb.

[Deleted]

Just out of curiosity; at what point do people who complain about dumbing down and pruning think the game was "complex enough?" Certainly it was not during vanilla and tbc when you ha much fewer buttons to use than now and the encounter mechanics were extremely simple. People were just a lot worse players then.

[Deleted]

Class white knight defense is to compare the game in 2018 to 2005. 13 years ago.

Absolutely hilarious.

I've played since Vanilla and I have never had so many spells to cast that are actually relevant as I've had in Legion. On my resto shaman I had 22 active keybinds that I used almost every raid encounter.

[Deleted]

Its not like a secret that the general conscent is that most classes were at their best in mop

Ok, so Mop is the point when the game was complex enough for youse? Good to know.

[Gambit5555]

Its not like a secret that the general conscent is that most classes were at their best in mop

Unless you were playing during MOP, at which point class design was shit and Wrath, Wrath was the glorious period. Oh how amazing Wrath was. Its almost like the two expac rule is true or something.....

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Class white knight defense is to compare the game in 2018 to 2005. 13 years ago.

Absolutely hilarious.

You should really just leave the game. You are kinda like a stalker ex now that doesn't realize it is over

[Lightstrike]

Rose tinted glasses are always going to be a factor, however subjectively while playing the game having quit during WotLK and back during Legion... the game feels easier now than it ever has been.

Back in WotLK I had 2 characters at max level, a Paladin and a Druid. If anything I have less time to play now than I did back then but in Legion I already have 7 or 8 level 110s 5 of which are Heroic Antorus level geared and 2 I didn't enjoy so stopped playing, the other one is WIP.

I think the complexity within the game moves and shifts, the game now seems to be more about situational awareness than it's ever been. Unfortunately this does distill down to a lot of "don't stand in the shit" mechanics which can get tiresome after a while. During BC and Wrath managing threat was important, so the smoothness of your DPS rotations were really dependent on how well geared the tank was. Also in BC and Wrath, it was more important to balance stats on gear because things like hit cap were a thing, and you could in fact get enough gear to hit soft caps where a particular stat wasn't really worth stacking more of anymore, this feels quite rare in Legion too but I must admit I haven't played/mastered all of the classes.

I kind of miss the additional aspects of the game that I'm used to, so for me my rose tinted goggles want threat to be a thing again and gear management to actually require some thought instead of a case of "just equip your highest ilvl gear" for the most part.

More important than all of those things though is how shit professions are these days, maybe it's due to Legions unprecedented ilvl bandwidth, I dunno, but the professions all seem pathetically weak to me. Of those 7-8 max level characters, all but 2 are engineer/enchanter because of the simple convenience of an AH in Dalaran and the endless cascade of epics that drop that can be DE'd.

[kamuimac]

Rose tinted glasses are always going to be a factor, however subjectively while playing the game having quit during WotLK and back during Legion... the game feels easier now than it ever has been.

Back in WotLK I had 2 characters at max level, a Paladin and a Druid. If anything I have less time to play now than I did back then but in Legion I already have 7 or 8 level 110s 5 of which are Heroic Antorus level geared and 2 I didn't enjoy so stopped playing, the other one is WIP.

I think the complexity within the game moves and shifts, the game now seems to be more about situational awareness than it's ever been. Unfortunately this does distill down to a lot of "don't stand in the shit" mechanics which can get tiresome after a while. During BC and Wrath managing threat was important, so the smoothness of your DPS rotations were really dependent on how well geared the tank was. Also in BC and Wrath, it was more important to balance stats on gear because things like hit cap were a thing, and you could in fact get enough gear to hit soft caps where a particular stat wasn't really worth stacking more of anymore, this feels quite rare in Legion too but I must admit I haven't played/mastered all of the classes.

I kind of miss the additional aspects of the game that I'm used to, so for me my rose tinted goggles want threat to be a thing again and gear management to actually require some thought instead of a case of "just equip your highest ilvl gear" for the most part.

More important than all of those things though is how shit professions are these days, maybe it's due to Legions unprecedented ilvl bandwidth, I dunno, but the professions all seem pathetically weak to me. Of those 7-8 max level characters, all but 2 are engineer/enchanter because of the simple convenience of an AH in Dalaran and the endless cascade of epics that drop that can be DE'd.

thats because blizzard are pussies and are afaid of putting proffesion gear that matters into game. they are shit scared people would run in proffesion gear then and ognore raids and mythic +

[Frolk]

they have to "broaden the horizon" to get more players, which means fucking over ur existing players.

[Broadinquiry]

It's not dumbing down, it's catering more to the modern casual gamer, who is much more selective in spending their money on MMOs. The content/game-play needs to match this demographic and that's what they are trying to do.

[Understarmor]

1. Debatable, back in vanilla i pressed 6x less spells then i do now
2. yeah... hand holding during questing has allways been a thing, just in differant ways... Questing is supposed to be the most basic of content...
3. I love how you need to use the same point twice. but ok.
4. you mean what the game has done since vanilla?
5. ok here we go, more like a patch then exapsnion? no.
6. no, no they dont, you have not done warfronts
7. i mean sorta yeah, but what is the problem with that? Raids in wotlk were liek raids in bc, and raids in bc were like raids in vanilla, therefore they are just patches not expansions
8. omfg seriously? Setting up our base in tbc, wrath, cata, mop, wod, legion, bfa all alike, all of them are "We are going to a new zone we need to settup a camp"
9. It feels nothing like the netherlight crucible because its not a tree, and it is not random. it is more like current talent rows...
10. leveling has been useless always, they could have always chosen a different system.
11. and? Does every system ever need to be remade every expansion? The honor system as it is, is great, adn they have changed it, you now get 4 talents to choose from any of X you want.. you serious? Also why do you put keystone master and honor system in the exact same point, wtf is this?
12. time gating has been a thign since vanilla, get over yourself
13. PEOPLE LOVE COSMETICS Are you seriously so dense you cant understand people LOVE cosmetics? Cosmetics is one of the if not the biggest (Beside food) industry on this planet, makeup, clothes, furniture, transportation, accessories, communication, and i could list hundreds more if i really thoguht about it liek watches, you could buy a 20$ watch that works fine... But you could buy a watch that nothing then cosmetics is the exact same but costs 500$ more


i think you miss even vanilla was dumbed down, vanilla wow was known as the "Casual' and the "Dumbed down" MMO, it was EZ compared to others, it was a million times less punishing, it was much easier to play, and to interact with.
remeber how in other MMO's items that you spent hundreds of hours to get culd be taken by other players..?

1) class design being at an all-time low doesn't mean you have more or less spells to "press" stop being a moron and read...
2) he is right, the pruning is fucking ridiculous now that after coming back from a two-year hiatus, I had 3 spells on my bar and the rest were talents.
3) questing is more hand holding than ever and it's not ALWAYS been hand holding, stop trying to make a point by just saying the opposite of everything he said because you disagree
4) you're just quite the moron aren't you?

[FelPlague]

1) class design being at an all-time low doesn't mean you have more or less spells to "press" stop being a moron and read...
2) he is right, the pruning is fucking ridiculous now that after coming back from a two-year hiatus, I had 3 spells on my bar and the rest were talents.
3) questing is more hand holding than ever and it's not ALWAYS been hand holding, stop trying to make a point by just saying the opposite of everything he said because you disagree
4) you're just quite the moron aren't you?

1. so what makes the classes at an all time low if not for factual numbers? what does, pleadse tell me so i may understand.
2. 3 spells on your bar? what spec are you ,mind showing me your spec and bars?
3. Yeah no leveling has allways been hand holding.'
4. so you have 3 points you give absolutely nothing to back up your points, and your fourth point is "your a moron" ... come on man...

[elynos]

1. so what makes the classes at an all time low if not for factual numbers? what does, pleadse tell me so i may understand.
2. 3 spells on your bar? what spec are you ,mind showing me your spec and bars?
3. Yeah no leveling has allways been hand holding.'
4. so you have 3 points you give absolutely nothing to back up your points, and your fourth point is "your a moron" ... come on man...

2. I too am curious, I have 7 spells in my regular rotation not including cds

[Deleted]

You can take a break from WoW by trying out Guild Wars 2, it is game with PvP focused balancing and each elite specs making the game harder to play.

Basically it is combat based MMORPG which only requires you to buy the expansions once (35 euros (30% off) for both expansions atm if you use WelcomeToGW2 code at guild wars 2 shop). Reason I recommend the game is because it doesn't require you to grind new gear every expansion, meaning you can just log in, use the max level boost you get with the expansions, mess around with builds and go directly to hard content. Also PvP doesn't require any gear, everyone has same stats. Then you can move back and forth with WoW alternating with both games good content.

I don't say it is gonna be better than WoW, because WoW is so much older game with way more PvE content and whole unique dark warcraft theme with nostalgia etc.. I am saying, just purely for the combat system, also the community is helpful because you dont have race for loot etc, you don't lose anything by playing with other players. The PvE is good in gw2 also but the main thing it beats WoW is in the "dumbed down specs and content" and Competitive gamemodes.

[FelPlague]

2. I too am curious, I have 7 spells in my regular rotation not including cds

Yes i have 8 on affliction
6 on demo (2 more that are very short cooldowns, but still cooldowns i guess)
5 on destro (all without talents)

the closest i could think would maybe be BM hunter?
4 of them, however one cooldown that is very fast cooldown normally 1 minute 30 seconds, but kill command reduces its cooldown.
again all of these before talents.

[Thage]

I remember back then when there was a big gap between a very good warrior and a normal one, especially with stance dancing.

Warriors were generally the exception, not the rule. Warlocks, rogues, druids, shadow priests, holy priests, mages, hunters, shaman, and paladins were all pretty moron-friendly in terms of class design at endgame in Vanilla and TBC. Warrior had a higher skill ceiling due to stance dancing and gear reliance, sure, but warriors also tended to be in fairly short supply outside raid guilds for a reason, as opposed to the deluge of hunters, warlocks, and rogues.

In terms of overall skill ceiling and challenge, the only real difference these days is that mobs aren't overtuned, we're usually leveling up with gear that has decent stats on it (as opposed to using a +2STR/+3STAM 2h sword at level 30 because nothing better's dropped yet), and spell damage mobs aren't doing double or triple the damage melee mobs are doing. Skill ceilings are pretty close to where they were in Vanilla, and it's pretty facetious for the OP to suggest the gulf between a bad player and a great player isn't still quite wide (at least as wide as the skill gap between someone whose potential maxes out at Stratholme/Scholomance/UBRS and someone running Naxx) when looking at LFR performance, Normal performance, Heroic performance, and Mythic performance and the skill requirements for each.

[Linri]

i miss talent trees the most out of anything in the game honestly, im glad they sort of re-hashed it with the artifact weapons, but it didnt feel the same.

the dumbing down of class specs is a bit annoying... although they have comboed many skills / to work together or work as a proc

it's not too bad though... considering many mmo's have ~12 or so skills that you use regularly

the one thing that i dislike about the dumbing down is it's actually turning many people INTO casuals, cause it is less involved

[schwank05]

* Class Design is at an all-time low.

Most specs now are both incredibly easy to play and easy to master. The gap between a good player and a bad player has never been smaller

* The amount of handholding during questing is jaw-dropping

* Pruning is over the top

We haven´t got any meaningful (permanent) abilities since WoD and from now on every new ability/cool interaction we earn will be taken away from us at the start of a new expansion. Core abilities are turned into talents (Hammer of Wrath, Shadow Word: Death, Consecration...) which shows lack of ideas and lazy design. In the game´s current state, more buttons would indeed mean more engaging gameplay. Depth is gone.

* Everything is made to take longer without being challenging.

Yes, they changed the leveling process. But it is still just as brainless as before, only takes longer. There is no challenge whatsoever, except getting through the slugfest while accepting that three rotational abilities is all you have. What has become of old Combustion? Old Efflorescence? MoP engaging class gameplay? The game is being designed for half-wits and people with dysfunctional neurotransmitter circuits now. It is reflecting whats going on in the world in general. People are stupid and it is lucrative to cater to stupidity instead of trying to raise people to their senses and wake them up.

* BfA feels more like a patch than an expansion and everything is reused, but just has a new name

1) warfronts - similar to WoD garrison invasions

2) island expeditions - similar to legion invasions / invasion points

3) the whole setting up of our base in the new zone feels like establishing a garrison in WoD

4) the azerite system feels so much like the Netherlight Crucible. It also feels like a system meant to tax those who play multiple specs

5) right now leveling in BfA is just useless, you don´t become stronger, you don´t gain any cool interactions with spells or new abilities. There is no level 120 talent row. You just level because you have to. The road is compulsory. But in the past we at least got something along the way, be it new abilities, talents, artifact skills or cool interactions every 2 levels.

6) the whole Honor system is almost entirely unchanged. Most of the entire talent system is unchanged. Almost all specs feel the same. Even Prestige rewards stay the same. Keystone Master achievement rewards will stay the same, too. No new one for bfa +15 completion. Feels half-assed, rushed and characteristic of a game whose lead developer tries to manage the decline of, not to bring it to new heights

7) the whole time-gating fiasco will be more ridiculous than ever before. You might get a new item but you cannot upgrade it because your azerite level is not high enough so you have to wait weeks to be able to use it properly. Expect this to continue throughout the whole expansion. You receive a cool carrot but it will stay in your backpack and waiting for being able to equip it is like waiting for a timer to run out

8) it seems the game emphasizes cosmetic rewards more than anything. Sad that most people seem to have forgotten how cheap the current allied races actually look, the Nightborne in particular.


I could go on and on. Did I say that the game is becoming increasingly dumbed down? Oh yes, it is. But that´s to be expected, because humanity is becoming increasingly dumbed down, despite the fact that raising the level of one´s consciousness has never been easier...

My only hope for the Pruning and stripping of features is that this is all in an attempt to port WOW to Console. Because honestly this is the only way I can see the game to live on, I for one cannot stand sitting behind a computer gaming anymore.