[Speculation] Classic WoW will kill retail

[Lens Hunter]

The thing that will keep me from playing Classic WoW is time. I don't think it would be that difficult to sit down, level up, get into a raiding guild and start working my way through the raid tiers. But everything back in Vanilla just took too much time. Time I don't have anymore. I can sit down in Legion and do some world quests, do some Mythic+, do my raid for the night, all in the time it would take to get a quarter or half a level in Classic. It's certainly a different experience (not better or worse,) but Im not the endless time-having teenager I once was.

[Deficineiron]

One piece of evidence to help the OP's case is Runescape. OSRS had a much stabler and larger population than RS3 over time and the differences between those two iterations of the game were much less drastic than between vanilla WoW and retail today. Relatively speaking, Runescape up until that release was much closer to its peak in popularity than WoW is right now.

implementation is key. I don't think activision-blizzard will be content to just put classic as an option for players. They are going to, in my opinion, 'improve' it to appeal to a broader audience.

[Eleccybubb]

I'll definitely be playing it. But it will be a side thing with some friends. Most I'll probably ever see in that game raid wise is ZG.

Not gonna replace my main 3 MMOs for it. Which are retail, FF14 and ESO right now.

[Deletedaccount1]

implementation is key. I don't think activision-blizzard will be content to just put classic as an option for players. They are going to, in my opinion, 'improve' it to appeal to a broader audience.

What do you mean by "improve" it? If you mean changing the functioning of the game itself, you are wrong. Blizzard has already said many times that the game will not be changed. For better or worse, the "no-changes" debate is settled.

[Deleted]

Major difference is that will go on top of WoW subs.

Will still be a profit for them overall. That's still an extra 20 million or so per month if it had 200k players. (Only doing it based off 1 month recurring subs so take it with a grain of salt)

However we don't know the Classic model yet.

Could be a one time payment, could be a separate sub or could be part of the current £9.99 sub.

99% likely, it's going to be part of the current sub.

[Eleccybubb]

99% likely, it's going to be part of the current sub.

Yeah I'm going with that one too personally.

[Rotted]

Not sure why this argument keeps popping up. People a lot clever than anyone on this forums will have conducted research for every angle.

If Classic would kill retail- they wouldn't release it
If Classic didn't offer enough to stand on its own feet - they wouldn't release it.

Classic will suit some people on its own.
Retail will suit some people on its own
And some people will enjoy both in different amounts.

Both will be live and both will do fine.

[Eleccybubb]

Not sure why this argument keeps popping up. People a lot clever than anyone on this forums will have conducted research for every angle.

If Classic would kill retail- they wouldn't release it
If Classic didn't offer enough to stand on its own feet - they wouldn't release it.

Classic will suit some people on its own.
Retail will suit some people on its own
And some people will enjoy both in different amounts.

Both will be live and both will do fine.

Nah mate some people are expecting some Game of Thrones shit to happen. Classic WoW is gonna poison Retail at a wedding or something.

[Rotted]

What do you mean by "improve" it? If you mean changing the functioning of the game itself, you are wrong. Blizzard has already said many times that the game will not be changed. For better or worse, the "no-changes" debate is settled.

Have you got a blue for this or something? Last I heard they were still speculating about what they'd do with stuff like UBRS, keep it as a 5 man or revert it to the original 15 man.

Overall not fussed about changes, they just need to get rid of that dammed loot bug that prevents you looting and keeps you crouched until you reboot.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Nope.

Also, even if it were true, that's still much more than Legion one-button spam for 100 levels and two-buttons spam for 10.

Man, how utterly dumb must one be to use 1 single button for 100 levels, especially since 7.3.5?
And 2 buttons? Not a single class, not even the often memed BM spec, has just 2 buttons as part of their rotation. Hyperbole doesn't help your argument one bit, seeing as how Classic actually WAS 1-2 button spam, even in raids, for certain specs.

As for the thread itself: Classic will be part of Retail.
But, the odds of Classic (stagnant, permanent content) killing the multi-billion dollar giant that was only ever endangered due to a lack of new content (WoD), has less of a chance than a snowball in hell.

[Daevied]

The first reply on this thread summarized this perfectly in one single idea " monetize the nostalgia". Nothing relevant to add to this, just another way for blizz to make money on the latest trend of using nostalgia to sell.

[Eleccybubb]

The first reply on this thread summarized this perfectly in one single idea " monetize the nostalgia". Nothing relevant to add to this, just another way for blizz to make money on the latest trend of using nostalgia to sell.

Trend?

The only game that made waves with it was Runescape.

The rest of them tanked. Mostly those are progression servers that start from the beginning kind of.

Classic has been a heavily requested feature for a while. Of course Blizzard are going to use it to make money from. They would be silly not to.

[chronia]

What do you mean by "improve" it? If you mean changing the functioning of the game itself, you are wrong. Blizzard has already said many times that the game will not be changed. For better or worse, the "no-changes" debate is settled.

I haven't seen anything like that though, i think the closest thing to it is the "Vanilla means Vanilla" from Ion. But i don't think they ever made a statement that there will be no changes at all, they even had a large poll on reddit where some of the options thats players could choose from could be seen as changes.

Don't get me wrong though, i doubt that there will be any massive changes like LFG implemented or the likes, Ion basicly confirms this already. But i also think its delusional to think that we will get a 100% carbon copy of the 2004-2006 Vanilla experience. And i definately don't think the "No-changes" debate is settled at all. There will be ppl complaining if the game runs on the current engine with Battle.net integration, which i think it absolutely will, as i doubt they will be going to maintain a 2nd infra structure and codebase for the client thats not battle.net integrated. But ppl will complain about it if it happens since it might make the game experience different (as it will allow easy communication between servers and even factions, not that stuff like discords won't offer that, but hey). But you will also get debates like starting at 1.1 or 1.12, progressive or not progressive, adjustments to the PVP system, tuning of bosses as with 1.12 talents most PVE content will be alot easier than with earlier talent revisions. Should dungeons like strat / scholo be 5 man only or also 10 man etc. Up to the point Blizzard actually comes out with more substantial info i doubt the debate will settle.

[Tiev]

LOL. No. It won't.

[Eleccybubb]

What do you mean by "improve" it? If you mean changing the functioning of the game itself, you are wrong. Blizzard has already said many times that the game will not be changed. For better or worse, the "no-changes" debate is settled.

So you seriously don't think they won't add something like Colorblind mode to help people?

As for changes if you think it's getting released as the bug riddled mess it was back then think again. They aren't going to deliberately release it shoddy for "the experience".

Or to get it working on modern hardware? If you think you will be able to boot this up from your Windows XP "gaming rig" think again. They dropped support for it on WoW a while ago and will do so for Classic.

If you think there are going to be 100% no changes then you are wrong.

[Ielenia]

Well, that's kinda the intention. It's intended to kill retail.

Thanks for saving me the time I'd waste reading your post. Especially when you mention Trump. To even entertain the idea that Classic WoW is being designed "with the intention to kill current WoW" is asinine at best.

WoW had 11 million players at it's peak, it's currently at maybe 2-3 million players.

"At its peak" was during Wrath of the Lich King. Vanilla WoW's best number was around 8 million. As for your claim of the current sub numbers... bullshit. You have nothing but your "feelings" for such a number. We have no idea whatsoever if the numbers stabilized, went up, or went down. Any attempt to claim either way is nothing but baseless speculation.

Listen buddy, I don't need to prove anything

You kind of do when you make claims.

[Akka]

Leveling in Classic was just as boring as it is now

Nope x1000.

And I dont know, have you done any leveling since the changes? You honestly wont get far by spamming one button now.

I admit I haven't leveled since the level scaling was put into the game, but then the very concept of level scaling makes my skin crawl and want to puke, so even if it's mechanically less retarded, I'll not take any pleasure in playing it.
I DID level up 1 to 110 during Legion though, and it was beyond godawful. Leveling in Vanilla is MUCH more fun and immersive.

Let's see..

Priest, the most efficent leveling build until shadow form consisted of PW:S, SW:P and a wand with the occasional heals.

Plus a few smite and holy fire. That's already four-five abilities. Add the shackles when you have undead dropping on you, fear when you get more adds, devouring plague if you play human, mana burn depending on the foe you fight, soothe mind when you don't want to aggro, Inner Focus if you play a Disc/Holy like I did.
There is also the buffs (stamina, potentially spirit), which are not really gameplay but adds to the feeling of rounded up class.

Mage, frostbolt, frostbolt, frostbolt. The occasional flameblast and arcane missiles thrown in but not really needed.

I don't use arcane missile, but frost nova is very often used, blink too, sometimes a rank 1 frostbolt to throw a chill debuff, blizzard when there is group to slowdown and damage, a sheep is common when there is adds, counterspell against casters (pretty useful that one), ice barrier if needed, sometimes (rarely but can be pretty useful) fire shield or frost shield, evocation and mana gems can sometimes save your hide.
Plus again the barely-gameplay but fluff-based buffs like the different armors and intell buff.

Warlock, well if specced nightfall/destro it could be pretty fun, still 90% shadowbolt spam with keeping up 2-3 dots.

I prefer affliction, and actually it's more about playing with fear, DoT and drain life/mana tap, health funnel/consume shadow to keep the pet alive, all the while trying to not to draw aggro. Pretty fun when you have more adds and you try to juggle them between you, your pet and running in fear all the while chipping their health with DoT.

And now I'll admit I didnt play anything else during vanilla and havent played these classes since vanilla when I was about 15-16 years old so my memory might not be the best, but as much as I find the legion prune harmfull I honeslty cant remember vanilla having more. My favorite xpac in terms of class design and number of skills is either wrath or MoP tbh.

Wrath had a potentially pretty fun gameplay, but it was too faceroll to actually matter outside of raid (I could just run while spamming DoT and have mob fall over around me), and there was too much homogeneization already making the classes lose their identity. Can't speak about MoP, I was on hiatus during it.

The core difference between Legion and Vanilla (and more generally, anything post-TBC with anything before), is that Legion has a better "main sequence" (rotation or core damage abilities), but there is basically nothing actually used outside of this (most of the abilities that aren't in the main sequence will never get used except maybe in high-level M+). Vanilla has a VERY barebone main sequence (I won't lie, fighting a tank'n'spank boss in MC is certainly pretty dull), but all these abilities I listed above ? It's not just for completion sake, it's things you ACTUALLY use (from "nearly every fight" to "rarely, but can be crucial") during leveling. And you use them because they give you a REAL edge (or downright allow you to survive), while in Legion, the few times I tried to use them, it was more or less useless and didn't change anything.

Gameplay during leveling in Vanilla can actually save you when things get hairy. There is little to no gameplay during leveling in Legion, you can just spam your main attack most of the time, and you use one escape button when things go bad. Meh.

[Deletedaccount1]

So you seriously don't think they won't add something like Colorblind mode to help people?

You know that is not what I meant.

[Eleccybubb]

You know that is not what I meant.

Be more specific then rather than just "no-changes".

Because outside of the core game itself changes WILL happen.

[chronia]

Nope x1000.

I'd say thats up for debate though, leveling the first time in 2005 was indeed a lot more immersive and fun than it is now on the 10th, 15th or for some even the 50th+ time around, but i reckon thats also because back then it was new, now we've done it all quite a few times. Leveling a 2nd / 3rd character was already a whole different story though even in 2005/2006, especially the later levels where grinding was more effective then questing were very very annoying after the first time and the grinding definately not a really fun thing to do. The currect leveling is also quite good the first time you do it each expansion and gets worse the more times you do it, same as in 2005 imho.