Demo Changes!

[Deleted]

Or maybe NP should be a replacement for HoG for the duration. Where it automatically eats shards to summon demons (some being imps for DC procs).

Then you'd focus on just SB/DB spam while the shards fuel the portal. You get a diffrent rotation without being awkward for HoG on 1-2 shards.

[Maleific]

Or maybe NP should be a replacement for HoG for the duration. Where it automatically eats shards to summon demons (some being imps for DC procs).

Then you'd focus on just SB/DB spam while the shards fuel the portal. You get a diffrent rotation without being awkward for HoG on 1-2 shards.

So Breath of Sindragosa?

[Smog]

I think we're kidding ourselves if we think NP is going to go through any majors changes or overhauls at this point. I think the design is pretty set for BFA warlocks. The most likely changes to be made are probably small tweaks, such as reducing the shard cost or having the portal spit out a demon per shard spent.

As much as I'd like to see it in a different more interesting state, I would be content if it was simply reduced to 0-2 shards and summoned a demon for each shard spent, and then tuned accordingly for the increased demon count.

[rhorle]

I think we're kidding ourselves if we think NP is going to go through any majors changes or overhauls at this point. I think the design is pretty set for BFA warlocks. The most likely changes to be made are probably small tweaks, such as reducing the shard cost or having the portal spit out a demon per shard spent.

Will it change? Probably not. Could it though? Certainly. Blizzard redid Jade forest around 2 months to launch so major last minute changes are not out of the question. While it isn't the same thing they also just changed up parts of Affliction because of rotation impacts.

[Smog]

Will it change? Probably not. Could it though? Certainly. Blizzard redid Jade forest around 2 months to launch so major last minute changes are not out of the question. While it isn't the same thing they also just changed up parts of Affliction because of rotation impacts.

Sure, anything could happen, but let's be completely honest here: Demo is one of the healthiest, most refreshing, and most fun specs in BfA right now. We are not exactly high priority, and one talent being a little clunky and lackluster is not what's going to scream for attention this close to launch.

Two months before Legion, the entire warlock community was screaming at Blizzard that Demo was completely broken and nigh-unplayable. It took them until the next expansion to fix an entirely broken spec. I don't see them prioritizing an overhaul of Nether Portal right now, because while it is awkward, it's also at least functional.

[rhorle]

Two months before Legion, the entire warlock community was screaming at Blizzard that Demo was completely broken and nigh-unplayable. It took them until the next expansion to fix an entirely broken spec. I don't see them prioritizing an overhaul of Nether Portal right now, because while it is awkward, it's also at least functional.

That is hyperbole. Demonology was not broken or nigh unplayable at launch of legion. And it wasn't that way for the entire course of legion. A clunky or lackluster talent is exactly what they just did for affliction. It is like you ignore everything just to see what you want. Which explains the hyperbole. Hell their explanation for the Affliction changes literally is all about changing clunky and lackluster talents.

https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/...dback/#post914

[Smog]

That is hyperbole. Demonology was not broken or nigh unplayable at launch of legion ...

OK, I have no interest in arguing about it. I hope you're correct and the talent is completely changed.

[wholol]

What spec did you run in dungeons, which one netted you the best experience? I mostly run with Dreadlash (Demonic Strength also sounds good, though), Demonic Calling (hello mobility), Inner Demons (more imps for Implosion) and Sacrificed Souls (because the other two talents in that row sound meh).

I can't take you seriously with that name tbh.

I have the urge to tell you to go play S76 instead of discussing locks.

[sugarfree]

Sure, anything could happen, but let's be completely honest here: Demo is one of the healthiest, most refreshing, and most fun specs in BfA right now. We are not exactly high priority, and one talent being a little clunky and lackluster is not what's going to scream for attention this close to launch.

Two months before Legion, the entire warlock community was screaming at Blizzard that Demo was completely broken and nigh-unplayable. It took them until the next expansion to fix an entirely broken spec. I don't see them prioritizing an overhaul of Nether Portal right now, because while it is awkward, it's also at least functional.

I see NP being reworked mid expansion tbh. It’s clunky but don’t see it as dire.

[iddqd]

I can't take you seriously with that name tbh.

I have the urge to tell you to go play S76 instead of discussing locks.

Sigh, this is a real problem when playing OW I have this nickname for about... 19 years, so waaaaay longer than André Dahlström, just because i needed a nickname nack then and i remembered that cheat code from Doom 2, so...

[Kelzam]

Sigh, this is a real problem when playing OW I have this nickname for about... 19 years, so waaaaay longer than André Dahlström, just because i needed a nickname nack then and i remembered that cheat code from Doom 2, so...

For what it's worth I love the username and still remember all others too IDKFA, IDCLIP, IDDQD etc. I still make maps for DOOM 2 for fun.

[Smog]

I see NP being reworked mid expansion tbh. It’s clunky but don’t see it as dire.

Pretty much.

[Shandalar]

Good changes. Service overnerfed and nothing else.

Blizzard despising this spec again.

[Gaidax]

Demo needs to be walloped with a good 10-15% nerf across the board. This is only the beginning.

I think that nerf is fine, but maybe they should have considered 75% damage instead. Time part is ok, because it stacked with Tyrant and 40 seconds was a bit too much, IMO.

Destruction got a decent nerf, in a ballpark or what I expected.

[garonne]

Demo needs to be walloped with a good 10-15% nerf across the board. This is only the beginning.

I think that nerf is fine, but maybe they should have considered 75% damage instead. Time part is ok, because it stacked with Tyrant and 40 seconds was a bit too much, IMO.

Destruction got a decent nerf, in a ballpark or what I expected.

i disagree, at 15 secs its basically another vilefiend. not only that, its competing against inner demons which is about 9 imps and potential a greater demon in the same cooldown and it now cost a shard. knee jerk change imo.

[Werst]

The felguard change was a bit too much. Especially if they are keeping with "more difficulty, slightly more reward". I think the damage was fine but the duration (with commander) was long. I'd rather have a short/bursty cooldown than dilution of a solid talent to be a quasi passive (40'ish seconds out of 90 was probably too long) but we need bursty damage like eye beam vs an aoe dot of 40 seconds so I'd of much preferred they cut the time on felguard grimoire vs the damage. Burst is what gets stuff down now and going forward... Yes demo is much improved but nether portal is the spec's big CD and is a gong show to play. If they are set on the mechanics they at least need to KJC the lock for the duration and have it puke a demon per shard for consistency sake. Easy changes and at least gets it more reliable to balance numbers on.

Destro they can tweak damage but they also need to keep an eye on its mobility problems as a spec. CDF/Cata need to be castable on the move at the very least. Or some kind of KJC that you charge up by casting stationary? Maybe the effects of the norgannon leggo boots for incinerate only? It needs something to help its mobile output or its always going to be a balance problem being too good when casting, too weak when moving. We know how that plays out...blizz nerfs us on theoretical turret output and everyone else is frustrated. Completely ignoring that playstyle isn't fun even when you can turret big numbers and only contributes to whining on forums about chaosbolt pvp burst or something when people ignore you and let you spam cast. For that matter destro has the same issue with cooldown stacking with infernal (and darksoul) that it needs to spam cast during its duration to get benefit. KJC during infernal would be a good step to normalizing destro cooldown strength/benefit than trying to count on the "stars align" spam casting version and the "helter skelter" where you are interrupted twice during its duration for movement/hazards.

Compare to STM: 60 seconds of mobile casting and double insanity on 4 minute cooldown and it no longer kills you. How does nether portal (or any lock CD) match that for mythic raiding or "intense phase" dps? So while the spriest is running at full speed casting away with double resources for 25% of the time (1 min out of every 4) we get turned into a turret whose gain disappears the moment we have to move for anything or suffer any interruption.

[Gaidax]

i disagree, at 15 secs its basically another vilefiend. not only that, its competing against inner demons which is about 9 imps and potential a greater demon in the same cooldown and it now cost a shard. knee jerk change imo.

It had always cost a shard, that no shard cost was just for like 2 builds when they changed the talent to be Felguard only.

As a whole it got nerfed because it was the best talent that tier by far, everyone and their mothers took Inner Demons because they did not know any better.

It is now more in line of other talents that row. As a whole it will still be a decent talent because it synergizes well with Tyrant which increases its duration and damage as well.

Maybe damage bonus will need to be increased back a bit but at this point it needs to be simmed. I personally think it would still be better than Inner Demons, because that thing is actually weaker than people think.

[Baconeggcheese]

I personally think it would still be better than Inner Demons, because that thing is actually weaker than people think.

But soooo much more fun.

Should honestly be the B word, cause its just fun having a lil posse of imps around you and is a very visible part of the spec when just walking around town or whatever in much the same way that the artifact weapons shouted what spec you were.

[Lucrece]

Plus it reduces initial aoe ramp up in between pulls if you're going for implosions.

The fact Grimserv also summons an ugly ass basic felguard with the low rez arcanite reaper axe instead of your wrathguard's glyphed weapon also sucks.

[Gaidax]

Don't know about that, plenty people want Demo to actually summon bigger demons and not be imp spec.

Overall for me, 2 Felguards hacking away is more interesting than a bit more imps and occasional trash demon summoned.

- - - Updated - - -

Plus it reduces initial aoe ramp up in between pulls if you're going for implosions.

The fact Grimserv also summons an ugly ass basic felguard with the low rez arcanite reaper axe instead of your wrathguard's glyphed weapon also sucks.

Whether it reduces ramp or not is up to discussion, instantly popping Felguard that proceeds to Felstorm at extra damage and then stays there for more Legion Strikes is better than 3 imps blowing up and cd is pretty low for its damage, then it perfectly matches Tyrant cd too, which in turn increases its duration.

Inner Demons simply did not compete before the nerf and likely still be worse after the nerf.

As a whole Grimoire Felguards did insane amount of damage for before the nerf for the measly cost of 1 shard and gcd. It was north 10% total damage done sustained and even more so in burst.