Body & Mind gone?!

[Feigr]

I cannot believe they removed Body & Mind and replaced it something that only affects the Priest.

Body & Mind were one of the few utility spells we had and I used it all the time in raids to help other players run out of stuff or run to adds etc.
It felt great to use and you felt like you were helping other players in another way that just healing them. I also use it constantly on myself when just running around in towns or questing or whatever.

So what are we left with now? Use these terribly designed clunky feathers that I have to place on the ground even though I do not know if another player would run exactly there to pick it up?

Holy Priests have little in the way of utility as it is, and removing Body & Mind only to replace it with a super boring buff to Desperate Prayer seems crazy!

[Kilee25]

Body and Soul?

[DatToffer]

Holy Priests have little in the way of utility as it is,

You're a healer. Talk about utility.

[gaymer77]

You're a healer. Talk about utility.

Pretty much this. When people talk about utility or lack there of they are talking about what that particular class brings to the table to help other players. I'm pretty sure your heals help other players more than a weak speed boost with a bubble attached to it. Disc still has the talent and my guess is they removed it from holy because they didn't like that holy had a bubble too.

[Feigr]

Pretty much this. When people talk about utility or lack there of they are talking about what that particular class brings to the table to help other players. I'm pretty sure your heals help other players more than a weak speed boost with a bubble attached to it. Disc still has the talent and my guess is they removed it from holy because they didn't like that holy had a bubble too.

First of all, Body & Mind is not a bubble it's a HoT, and the healing component of the spell is rather meaningless because that's not why you cast it.

When I am talking about utility I am of course talking about non-healing spells as compared to other healers.
I am not demanding that all healers are homogenized to where they have same non-healing utility spells, but Holy Priests have comparatively not had that many and removing one of the few we have stings a bit.

[Atharaxie]

I agree with the lack of utility compared to other healer specs.
I think you should give Angelic Feathers a second chance. They are way better than Body&Soul or Body&Mind.
Hpriest in BFA has raid utility in the form Symbol of Hope. That's something.

[gaymer77]

First of all, Body & Mind is not a bubble it's a HoT, and the healing component of the spell is rather meaningless because that's not why you cast it.

When I am talking about utility I am of course talking about non-healing spells as compared to other healers.
I am not demanding that all healers are homogenized to where they have same non-healing utility spells, but Holy Priests have comparatively not had that many and removing one of the few we have stings a bit.

1) There is no HOT involved with Body & Mind. CLICK HERE if you don't believe me.
2) What other healer have utility that isn't a healing spell?

[Deleted]

1) There is no HOT involved with Body & Mind. CLICK HERE if you don't believe me.
2) What other healer have utility that isn't a healing spell?

1) The HoT is from mastery.
2) And Druids do, multiple in fact. Root/massroot, knockback, stun, innervate and vortex.

[Feigr]

1) There is no HOT involved with Body & Mind. CLICK HERE if you don't believe me.
2) What other healer have utility that isn't a healing spell?

Our definitions of what a HoT is might differ then. To me the 4 second effect that heals you every second classifies as a HoT. To you it might not.

All healers have utlity spells that don't heal. Things like:

Innervate
Rebirth
Blessing of Protection
Beacon of Light
etc

The point of this thread was not to compare and count which healer has more utility than others. I just think it's bizarre to remove a spell that benefits both the Priest and other in the raid and replace it with something that affects a spell that I can only cast on myself (Desperate Prayer).
Meanwhile the level 60 tier is still only a bunch of things that have no real use in raids. Why not move Body & Mind there so that tier is not a complete wash for raiders?

[Ophenia]

1) There is no HOT involved with Body & Mind. CLICK HERE if you don't believe me.

Heals the target for (60% of Spell power) every 1 sec and increases their movement speed by 40% for 4 sec.

So this is a Healing-on-Time effect, but it sure is not a HoT ? I don't get it.

2) What other healer have utility that isn't a healing spell?

Druids Combat Res ?
Druids Root/Grip ?
Pals Hands ?
Monk Bump ?
Shaman 20 billion totems, one being a free combat res ?

The problem with Healing Priest specs is that they heal. And that's it. No control, no snare, no buff, nothing, just heal and gtfo. That would be perfectly fine, if all specs were not supposed to be balanced. But Blizzard is trying to, so if in the end, you're healing as much as all other specs in the world, but all the other specs are also bringing in some extra flavor, you'll be benched as Priest, that's it.

I don't know if all those specs get to keep their controls/buffs/whatever, I'm just highlighting that Priests are already bringing nothing today in regard to all other specs, maybe all healing specs will be reduced to healing in BfA but I highly doubt it will be the case.

[Nurasu]

So this is a Healing-on-Time effect, but it sure is not a HoT ? I don't get it.



Druids Combat Res ?
Druids Root/Grip ?
Pals Hands ?
Monk Bump ?
Shaman 20 billion totems, one being a free combat res ?

The problem with Healing Priest specs is that they heal. And that's it. No control, no snare, no buff, nothing, just heal and gtfo. That would be perfectly fine, if all specs were not supposed to be balanced. But Blizzard is trying to, so if in the end, you're healing as much as all other specs in the world, but all the other specs are also bringing in some extra flavor, you'll be benched as Priest, that's it.

I don't know if all those specs get to keep their controls/buffs/whatever, I'm just highlighting that Priests are already bringing nothing today in regard to all other specs, maybe all healing specs will be reduced to healing in BfA but I highly doubt it will be the case.

Next expansion, we'll bring Fortitude (I don't believe any other healers have a raid buff at the moment, sans Bloodlust). Holy will also bring a second raid cooldown if talented and Symbol of Hope. Disc will bring absorbs (strong ones through Rapture).

- - - Updated - - -

1) The HoT is from mastery.
2) And Druids do, multiple in fact. Root/massroot, knockback, stun, innervate and vortex.

Holy Priests can also have a knockback, a stun, and a raidwide innervate. No battle rez, though.

[anon5123]

You're a healer. Talk about utility.

"You deal high damage, that's your utility."
"You have lots of health and defense, that's your utility."

see how dumb that sounds

[DatToffer]

"You deal high damage, that's your utility."
"You have lots of health and defense, that's your utility."

see how dumb that sounds

Doesn't sound that dumb. As long as you can play your role, that's good. The rest is bonus. Bonus. Optional. You don't have to cry for it cause you don't really need it.

[anon5123]

Doesn't sound that dumb. As long as you can play your role, that's good. The rest is bonus. Bonus. Optional. You don't have to cry for it cause you don't really need it.

So it's okay that other healers have utility and Holy doesn't?

have fun getting benched

[Deleted]

Doesn't sound that dumb. As long as you can play your role, that's good. The rest is bonus. Bonus. Optional. You don't have to cry for it cause you don't really need it.

Couldn't be more obviously and totally wrong.

Bringing BDKs to Aggrammar was not a case of them being the best tanks, it was a case of them having an extremely useful utility. Same for Locks. Doing Coven progression? having the right CC can be make or break an attempt. Doing a high M+ with the right utility comp can be a breeze compared to trying to do it with bad utility.

[DatToffer]

So what you mean guys is that Blizzard's wish to have raids where you "bring the player and not the class" has utterly failed because you're still basing your strats on accessory skills ?

[Mazzeric]

So what you mean guys is that Blizzard's wish to have raids where you "bring the player and not the class" has utterly failed because you're still basing your strats on accessory skills ?

While I think you're trolling, I'll just say it anyway... success in high end raiding has been about abusing utility spells for like 4 whole expansions now. As they make bosses more complex and get better at balancing DPS and healing across the board, the only thing separating specs is the utility they bring.

Holy Priest hasn't been a relevant spec in endgame boss strats since probably Burning Crusade during the CoH spam meta in Sunwell where you needed Mass Dispels for Felmyst. Even then a Shadow Priest could do it. Mind Control has had a role in certain fights but again the other specs have been more "meta" and could cover it.

[Kilee25]

While I think you're trolling, I'll just say it anyway... success in high end raiding has been about abusing utility spells for like 4 whole expansions now. As they make bosses more complex and get better at balancing DPS and healing across the board, the only thing separating specs is the utility they bring.

Holy Priest hasn't been a relevant spec in endgame boss strats since probably Burning Crusade during the CoH spam meta in Sunwell where you needed Mass Dispels for Felmyst. Even then a Shadow Priest could do it. Mind Control has had a role in certain fights but again the other specs have been more "meta" and could cover it.

As someone who raided as a holy priest during those times, I agree wholeheartedly. One of the reasons I swapped to shadow was because the game slowly shift relevance away from Holy with each new expansion, and I fundamentally never liked the disc gameplay (shieldbot) regardless of its effectiveness. I don’t like the current iteration of disc either, but for entirely different reasons. In any case, Holy has felt like a red-headed stepchild for years, and it’s been a bit of a sore spot with me.

[Nalera]

While I think you're trolling, I'll just say it anyway... success in high end raiding has been about abusing utility spells for like 4 whole expansions now. As they make bosses more complex and get better at balancing DPS and healing across the board, the only thing separating specs is the utility they bring.

Holy Priest hasn't been a relevant spec in endgame boss strats since probably Burning Crusade during the CoH spam meta in Sunwell where you needed Mass Dispels for Felmyst. Even then a Shadow Priest could do it. Mind Control has had a role in certain fights but again the other specs have been more "meta" and could cover it.

Lol, except when paragon solo healed the last mythic boss in mop world first with a holy priest.

[DatToffer]

So you mean to tell me... Blizzard managed to balance the spec pve-wise in terms of performance, specifically so that you don't need to chose one over the others... And you're still doing just that ?