I am really worried about MM Hunter in BFA

[theossy]

And you're getting a 20% damage reduction even if you have no pet out, but roll with Lone Wolf instead... Is this correct? This is huge for hunters raiding mythic?? Or did I misunderstand something? (Sorry for going a bit offtopic, but I couldn't find a post on this and it did come with the latest batch of changes)

[Aspenarious]

And you're getting a 20% damage reduction even if you have no pet out, but roll with Lone Wolf instead... Is this correct? This is huge for hunters raiding mythic?? Or did I misunderstand something? (Sorry for going a bit offtopic, but I couldn't find a post on this and it did come with the latest batch of changes)

The way that I read it, when MM activates Lone Wolf, we get the same button that we would get if we had a tenacity pet out, which is that 20% damage reduction effect that you refer to.

On the other hand, we won't get the 10% health that would go with it if we had the tenacity pet out. And we get no cunning or ferocity pet benefits either. It's a net loss in utility with no corresponding damage gain. At least, as I understand it, the damage gain is the same as what would be done by the pet.

[theossy]

The way that I read it, when MM activates Lone Wolf, we get the same button that we would get if we had a tenacity pet out, which is that 20% damage reduction effect that you refer to.

On the other hand, we won't get the 10% health that would go with it if we had the tenacity pet out. And we get no cunning or ferocity pet benefits either. It's a net loss in utility with no corresponding damage gain. At least, as I understand it, the damage gain is the same as what would be done by the pet.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Okay, so I know that whether a flat 10% health increase or 20% damage reduction is more attractive depends on the fight/incoming damage type, but to me it's huge that hunters playing with lone wolf are essentially getting a 20% DR (on top of having turtle). Hopefully that'll keep us in the roster more

[andreasels]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Okay, so I know that whether a flat 10% health increase or 20% damage reduction is more attractive depends on the fight/incoming damage type, but to me it's huge that hunters playing with lone wolf are essentially getting a 20% DR (on top of having turtle). Hopefully that'll keep us in the roster more

With a tenacity pet out, you still get the 20% damage reduction CD on top of the passive HP. Lone Wolf needs to be tuned in a way that it is a dps gain compared to playing with a pet, otherwise it is like Aspenarious said: there is no upside of using Lone Wolf on single target.

It's 5% HP from the tenacity pet passive btw.

[Deleted]

Not sure how many changes have been since the OP but i am melting faces in dungeons as my MM hunter. Looks great going into BFA. ANything would compared to Legion hunter tbh

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Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Okay, so I know that whether a flat 10% health increase or 20% damage reduction is more attractive depends on the fight/incoming damage type, but to me it's huge that hunters playing with lone wolf are essentially getting a 20% DR (on top of having turtle). Hopefully that'll keep us in the roster more

WHAT? No. A 20% damage reduction is ALWAYS better then 10% more health. Increased health is only good for pvp or if you are getting one shot in PvE(which you wont).

[Xloudman]

Not sure how many changes have been since the OP but i am melting faces in dungeons as my MM hunter. Looks great going into BFA. ANything would compared to Legion hunter tbh

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WHAT? No. A 20% damage reduction is ALWAYS better then 10% more health. Increased health is only good for pvp or if you are getting one shot in PvE(which you wont).

It's a 20% active damage reduction ability. It is not a passive, it has a 2 minute CD and like a 6 second duration. With the pet you get the extra health AND the active, but with lone wolf you just get the active.

[Deleted]

It's a 20% active damage reduction ability. It is not a passive, it has a 2 minute CD and like a 6 second duration. With the pet you get the extra health AND the active, but with lone wolf you just get the active.

i am only talking about 10% health vs damage reduction here. HP in wow is like this. Either you have enough and anything beyond that point is useless(in PvE) or you dont and you need more.

Assuming you have enough(because otherwise you'd be screwed) the damage reduction is ALWAYS better.

[Xloudman]

i am only talking about 10% health vs damage reduction here. HP in wow is like this. Either you have enough and anything beyond that point is useless(in PvE) or you dont and you need more.

Assuming you have enough(because otherwise you'd be screwed) the damage reduction is ALWAYS better.

I'm gonna make this real simple for you. We'll call damage reduction A and health B. With lone wolf you get A, with a pet you get A and B. You're never forced to make the choice between more health OR more damage reduction. You can have either the damage reduction OR the damage reduction AND the health.

[Deleted]

I'm gonna make this real simple for you. We'll call damage reduction A and health B. With lone wolf you get A, with a pet you get A and B. You're never forced to make the choice between more health OR more damage reduction. You can have either the damage reduction OR the damage reduction AND the health.

Ok so i'm gonna make this real simple for you. Like reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal simple.

I was responding to the guy saying this:

Okay, so I know that whether a flat 10% health increase or 20% damage reduction is more attractive depends on the fight/incoming damage type,

Was that simple enough for ya?

[Xloudman]

Ok so i'm gonna make this real simple for you. Like reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal simple.

I was responding to the guy saying this:



Was that simple enough for ya?

It's not a choice. That guy was implying that you have to choose between the health or the damage reduction. You're only further muddying the waters by trying to tell him that the damage reduction is better than the extra health when you don't have to choose between them. The correct response to his statement is that it's a choice between the extra health and improved target swapping/AOE damage. It's not a choice between the extra health and the damage reduction. You were replying to his statement working off his incorrect statement that you have to choose the health or the damage reduction.



You were trying to tell him to choose lone wolf over a pet because the damage reduction is better than the extra health, but you can get the damage reduction with both options so whether or not you can have the damage reduction is not an issue because you can have it both ways. The damage reduction literally doesn't factor into the decision on whether or not you use lone wolf or a tenacity pet.

[Deleted]

It's not a choice. That guy was implying that you have to choose between the health or the damage reduction. You're only further muddying the waters by trying to tell him that the damage reduction is better than the extra health when you don't have to choose between them. The correct response to his statement is that it's a choice between the extra health and improved target swapping/AOE damage. It's not a choice between the extra health and the damage reduction. You were replying to his statement working off his incorrect statement that you have to choose the health or the damage reduction.



You were trying to tell him to choose lone wolf over a pet because the damage reduction is better than the extra health, but you can get the damage reduction with both options so whether or not you can have the damage reduction is not an issue because you can have it both ways. The damage reduction literally doesn't factor into the decision on whether or not you use lone wolf or a tenacity pet.

No i wasnt. I was telling him that a damage reduction cd is better then a flat health passive. If you have a beef with him not understanding that you get both or just one if you choose lone wolf then tell him, not me.

Stop trying to put words in my mouth that i havent said to suit your agenda.

The post i made before clarified exactly what i meant and that was exactly what i wrote aswell.

I get that you are trying to pull back now by acting as if i wasnt clear about what i said but i was. You just forgot who my first post was adressed to and started acting cocky

[Xloudman]

No i wasnt. I was telling him that a damage reduction cd is better then a flat health passive. If you have a beef with him not understanding that you get both or just one if you choose lone wolf then tell him, not me.

Stop trying to put words in my mouth that i havent said to suit your agenda.

The post i made before clarified exactly what i meant and that was exactly what i wrote aswell.

I get that you are trying to pull back now by acting as if i wasnt clear about what i said but i was. You just forgot who my first post was adressed to and started acting cocky

Person A: "hey guys, I'm gonna have a lot of trouble choosing between 10% health or a 20% damage reduction"

You: "well of course you should choose the 20% damage reduction, it's better"

Me: "you know you don't have to choose, right?"

You: "Yeah, which is why you should choose the damage reduction"

[Deleted]

Person A: "hey guys, I'm gonna have a lot of trouble choosing between 10% health or a 20% damage reduction"

You: "well of course you should choose the 20% damage reduction, it's better"

Me: "you know you don't have to choose, right?"

You: "Yeah, which is why you should choose the damage reduction"

You:

It's a 20% active damage reduction ability. It is not a passive

Where my response was:

i am only talking about 10% health vs damage reduction here

I was never a part of the other discussion but you kept dragging me in because apparently you didnt, and still dont, understand that my response was ONLY aimed at that one sentence.

I've never once said anything against the other thing. I'm not sure how that can be so hard to understand

[Kwaai]

You:



Where my response was:



I was never a part of the other discussion but you kept dragging me in because apparently you didnt, and still dont, understand that my response was ONLY aimed at that one sentence.

I've never once said anything against the other thing. I'm not sure how that can be so hard to understand

But which is preferable between health and a damage reduction cooldown isn't even relevant.

Also (not that it's at all relevant to hunters in bfa), more health can be better than damage reduction if you're taking the damage over an extended period, or if you're in danger of dying more often than every 3 minutes.

[Bugg]

What exactly is that people dislike about the BfA MM?
What interactions / skills / mechanics?
When someone says "oh I don't like MM at all in BfA, the changes are horrible" it would help to give some details.

[Kwaai]

What exactly is that people dislike about the BfA MM?
What interactions / skills / mechanics?
When someone says "oh I don't like MM at all in BfA, the changes are horrible" it would help to give some details.

Really slow. We'll see if 2.5s AiS fixes this, but it'll still be slower than a Chaos Bolt.

No impactful procs. Precise Shots doesn't really affect you much because you're going to have to be dumping focus anyway. All of the non-LnL proc talents are unbelievably low impact. A 30% chance at a free AS after an AiS is worth what, 15 focus every ~30 seconds? A guaranteed AiS crit after every 10th SS? Come on. That's optimistically like once a minute. LnL is great, but a 5% chance with a 3s weapon means it's a single global every minute that feels good.

Trueshot feels like shit to press, being on the gcd and ideally used only at 0 AiS charges. It doesn't impact your rotation like on live, it just makes it moderately faster. Which is tempered by the gcd it takes up.

There's just never a time when you're doing stuff and you feel good. There's no "stars align" moments. A bm hunter might get a string of Barbed Shot resets, or a demo lock might get a string of demonic core procs, and those feel really good and happen reasonably often to spice up their respective rotations. MM doesn't have anything remotely comparable outside of LnL, which just doesn't proc enough to reliably feel good.

[Deleted]

The MM talents are indeed a real joke... and trueshot did become a really boring skill.

I can understand that they wanted to stop the current Trueshot madness. But the haste buff on a 3min cooldown is super 'meh'.

And "Steady Focus" is such a wasted opportunity... the cast-time reduction by itself is solid, but why isn't it a 10s buff after using two in a row or something. That would change your rotation in some way.

[Deleted]

But which is preferable between health and a damage reduction cooldown isn't even relevant.

Also (not that it's at all relevant to hunters in bfa), more health can be better than damage reduction if you're taking the damage over an extended period, or if you're in danger of dying more often than every 3 minutes.

1. Dont tell me that, tell the guy i quoted originally

2. No. Health isnt worth more then a damage reduction cd. If you need 10% more health to survive so does the rest of the raid. Unless you fucked up but thats your own fault and chances are 10% wont save you

[Kaver]

A “Marksman” should really be about standing still and carefully taking aim while firing only a few but precise and deadly shots. Not some gunnut jumping around like super mario while firing like crazy. Leave that to the kids... I mean the BMs... no the kids..

[Mavick]

A “Marksman” should really be about standing still and carefully taking aim while firing only a few but precise and deadly shots. Not some gunnut jumping around like super mario while firing like crazy. Leave that to the kids... I mean the BMs... no the kids..

Nobody is forcing you to move....well, except mechanics I guess...but still...