If you've read Before the Storm...what did you think? (Spoilers obviously)

[Aucald]

This is where trading comes. But still after SoO, night elves traded Ashenvale with Azshara and I don't think the former issue about resources is a thing anymore and nothing about it was mentioned afterward.

I really have no idea how is Blizz going to justify this peace after BfA but I guess like many other unreasonable and hilarious things which happened before, this peace is going to become one of them. Unless none of the events in BfA is real and Azeroth is playing with the minds of everyone to teach them that "if you fight with each other, these things gonna happen. So don't do it and let's be friends" which I highly doubt. All and all, the beginning of BfA already pissed many people off and the ending is going to be the same imo.

I'm more talking about the internal story of the game and not its playerbase, though. The players are never going to stop carping, complaining, or griping about favoritism in one direction or the other until neither faction exists or the game essentially ends - this is just how it will be, it's a product of the human instinct to identify with their own group or tribe. I'm also just as curious as you to how such a peace could come about, but I imagine from what I've seen so far that it will be a matter of costs so injurious to both the Horde and the Alliance that they can no longer continue the conflict. The medieval fantasy of mutually assured destruction, if you will. The Alliance and Horde both losing the will to keep fighting, and the neutralization of the firebrands who promote the fighting (e.g. Sylvanas, Genn, etc.) for reasons of their own.

[FecundDecay]

Can we get a tl;dr bullet point summary of the story?

Can you people bugger off? Giving you a free summary of a book you didn't pay for isn't the purpose of this thread.
Go pay for it and read it, or wait for the wiki article. Stop hi-jacking threads to beg for free handouts.

[Rioo]

Can you people bugger off? Giving you a free summary of a book you didn't pay for isn't the purpose of this thread.
Go pay for it and read it, or wait for the wiki article. Stop hi-jacking threads to beg for free handouts.

Can't really blame them if Blizzard advances the plot of their game in a novel they shouldn't have to read.

[Aucald]

We thinking that the night elves are basically just going to get the boot, sit back, and give up and forget about their ancestral home and leave the World Tree and the Well of Eternity for Sylvanas and the Horde to use it to their ends?

If they want the fighting to stop, then to some degree, yes. I don't mean they should give the land to the Horde and be done with it, but if they are consumed with a need to revenge themselves for the destruction of Teldrassil or the initial invasion of their lands *after* a Horde withdrawal then the fighting will start right back up again. It is easy to continue to a cycle of hatred - it only ends when both groups decide to stop fighting.

If they really do leave it as Horde/Alliance are now divided to either continent, I'm going to call Blizzard out on their complete BS in reverse. After MoP, the Horde had lost a lot and the Alliance was supposedly the remaining super power. Then in Warlords the Horde were suddenly dead on equal in power to the Alliance and still so in Legion.

The Horde lost a lot in MoP, and was left in disarray. The recuperation period of WoD (in which there was relatively little infighting between the factions) was what the Horde needed to address its wounds and return to being near in power to the Alliance. The costs of the conflict in Legion have left both Horde and Alliance on pretty much equal footing (both diminished in terms of capacity and will to fight) - and that's the situation we find ourselves in during BfA.

If the Alliance isn't 100% screwed and just barely hoping to survive after the Horde has control every major font of power left on the planet (Well of Eternity, magic powers of the Nightborn & blood elves, the Sunwell assuming Quel'thalas isn't lost which I don't see happening, Sargeras' sword and the main source of Azerite if that isn't scrapped by end of the expansion, plus the Forsaken's insta-death blight they can dump on an entire battlefield at Sylvanas' whim), that's just as equally ridiculous. BfA is shaping up for the Horde to be not only a super power, but the sole, no-remote-chance-of-matching superpower on the whole damn planet.

Seriously, as BfA is looking to stand, any recognition of sovereign boundaries is going to boil down to the Alliance praying the Horde doesn't just wipe them off the planet any time they damn well please. :/

Take the unbalancing factor that is Azerite out of the equation and I think you return to a rough equivalency in forces. Both Sylvanas and Anduin admit their forces are a wreck post-Legion, which is why they are seeking to supplement themselves with the navies and soldiers of Zandalar and Kul Tiras, respectively. Both are seeking and developing powerful weapons using Azerite, and though the Horde got the drop on the Alliance there I am thinking the culmination of BfA and the ultimate healing of Azeroth (if such a thing is in the cards) will also spell the end of Azerite as a thing. This returns the Horde and Alliance to normal and pretty much equal power levels, and makes mutually assured destruction pretty much a sure bet if they fight down to the bitter end.

As I see it, every gain by the Horde is matched by a gain on the Alliance side, and vice-versa. Both sides might vary in power level at any given point but, in the aggregate, they come out pretty much roughly equal.

[Veldoranz]

I like the idea of a Horde and Alliance unification. Like, the factions still exist, but they end up in a semi-permanent armistice, unification type situation where they're still the faction, but they work together. Leads to Horde and Alliance players being able to group with each other, go into each other's cities without being attacked, that sort of thing. So with that, if you're in the Horde, you're still in the Horde, but some of the barriers and restrictions go away with some kind of peace arrangement. Idk if this is feasible or something that Blizzard would ever do, but it's in my personal wishlist.

You are absolutely right that Warcraft without the Alliance and the Horde wouldn't be Warcraft, I completely agree with that. But just because the Alliance and Horde continue exist, that shouldn't necessarily mean that they can't heal the rifts, you know? They can still exist, and be separate entities, but let's stop killing each other for fuck's sake. It's exhausting and depressing. We're wasting soldiers that could be better used against the Old Gods, or in case Sargeras ever breaks free, or whatever else comes along to try and end the world. We stand a better chance as a united front. If we lose Azeroth, the Alliance and the Horde are BOTH fucked. It's in ALL of our best interests to make peace, make amends to each other for all the harm and damage that's been done, and move forward together. OR, we could keep fighting each other and just let the next world-ending threat kill all of us. What do I know.

I think it would be sweet to opt in or out of a peace treaty. You can choose to remain hostile, or you can choose to be friendly with the other faction and group with them. Either way I agree with you.

[gcsmith]

.....they're immediately listed right there?

Except they don't control the well of eternity... that belongs to the cenerian circle.

[Obelisk Kai]

COME ON!

GIVE US THE JUICY TL;DR POINTS ALREADY!

Bah, why bother.

I think this is a big plot point that might be neglected given everything else we learn, so I will talk about it here.

Calia Menethil had a young daughter whom she lost during the fall of Lordaeron.

Said daughter was last seen with her father, a guardsman who Calia had eloped with without her father's knowledge. The marriage was conducted by a priest and is legitimate.

The daughter's existence was covered up by Calia's mother to prevent a scandal, with the intent of revealing her existence once Arthas and Jaina were safely married.

The daughter was hidden in southshore, raised by the guardman father, away from court.

The daughter is now the last living member of the House of Menethil and a legitimate claimant to the throne of Lordaeron. She has royal blood.

She would also be in her late teens right now if she has survived. About Anduin's age in fact.

TLDR: Calia has a daughter who is about Anduin's age and I guarantee you this daughter is the answer to the 'who is Anduin going to marry?' question. Sorry Wrathion fans.

[Dellis0991]

I think this is a big plot point that might be neglected given everything else we learn, so I will talk about it here.

Calia Menethil had a young daughter whom she lost during the fall of Lordaeron.

Said daughter was last seen with her father, a guardsman who Calia had eloped with without her father's knowledge. The marriage was conducted by a priest and is legitimate.

The daughter's existence was covered up by Calia's mother to prevent a scandal, with the intent of revealing her existence once Arthas and Jaina were safely married.

The daughter was hidden in southshore, raised by the guardman father, away from court.

The daughter is now the last living member of the House of Menethil and a legitimate claimant to the throne of Lordaeron. She has royal blood.

She would also be in her late teens right now if she has survived. About Anduin's age in fact.

TLDR: Calia has a daughter who is about Anduin's age and I guarantee you this daughter is the answer to the 'who is Anduin going to marry?' question. Sorry Wrathion fans.

Taelia.....

[Aucald]

Sorry but what you are saying absolutely doesn't make sense. If they want to stop the cycle of hatred as you mentioned, the one who conquered the homeland of the other should return it back and not the original owner to sacrifice it to the other for this so called peace. Actually this is not called peace, it is called surrender.

I've already stipulated that the Horde would have to withdraw from Night Elven lands, so I'm not sure what you mean here - the Horde can't incite the Night Elves to war and expect peace, that's not how this works. They can't however "give them back Teldrassil" as it's gone, destroyed in the conflict. If the Night Elves want revenge for that then so be it, but then they're the ones inciting the conflict themselves and so the fighting won't stop. The Night Elves would have to accept that the Horde destroyed Teldrassil and stop seeking vengeance for it if they desire a lasting peace - they would have their lands, and they could rebuild in said peace, but if they seek to revenge themselves then the peace ends (again).

And if they want to keep fighting after it, they totally have good reason for it. Horde attacked the Night Elven lands for the third time now.

I don't disagree that they have good cause to fight - I'm just saying that if they desire peace, then they have to give up vengeance as well. That's their part of the sacrifice that lasting peace requires. The Horde, for its part, has to accept that sharing the world means that they have limits - that they can't ride roughshod over those limits and expect to carry the day.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Anduin's VA narrates the book by the way.

[RoKPaNda]

I think Christie Golden's writing hasn't improved at all since she butchered the Arthas story. In all seriousness it was pretty standard for a WoW story. Generic fantasy, feels a little fan-fic-y, little bit of lore butchering. Horde are somehow the bad guys despite the alliance being lead by two batshit crazy light fanatics and a wolfman. *shrug*

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I haven’t finished the book but it would seem adunin isn’t high king he’s just ruling stormwing?

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I think Christie Golden's writing hasn't improved at all since she butchered the Arthas story. In all seriousness it was pretty standard for a WoW story. Generic fantasy, feels a little fan-fic-y, little bit of lore butchering. Horde are somehow the bad guys despite the alliance being lead by two batshit crazy light fanatics and a wolfman. *shrug*

You must be playing a different game if you think the alliance is ruled by crazy light fanatics.

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Anduin's VA narrates the book by the way.

I was surprised by that, little disappointed they didn’t get other VA for some of the other roles like sylvanas.

[Ningjinq]

They really need to add AU Yrel to the Alliance.

[Aucald]

I just got the book today and plan on knocking it out this evening - unfortunately I've got work to do before I can relax with a book for the evening.

[Kyphael]

I think this is a big plot point that might be neglected given everything else we learn, so I will talk about it here.

Calia Menethil had a young daughter whom she lost during the fall of Lordaeron.

Said daughter was last seen with her father, a guardsman who Calia had eloped with without her father's knowledge. The marriage was conducted by a priest and is legitimate.

The daughter's existence was covered up by Calia's mother to prevent a scandal, with the intent of revealing her existence once Arthas and Jaina were safely married.

The daughter was hidden in southshore, raised by the guardman father, away from court.

The daughter is now the last living member of the House of Menethil and a legitimate claimant to the throne of Lordaeron. She has royal blood.

She would also be in her late teens right now if she has survived. About Anduin's age in fact.

TLDR: Calia has a daughter who is about Anduin's age and I guarantee you this daughter is the answer to the 'who is Anduin going to marry?' question. Sorry Wrathion fans.

Now that is some cool stuff right there. I was just thinking the other day "what if Jaina/Arthas had a kid in secret out of wedlock? Nah, Jaina would have mentioned it by now, it'd be ridiculous." Christie Gold goes ahead and does the same shit but with Calia instead of Arthas. rofl

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I think Christie Golden's writing hasn't improved at all since she butchered the Arthas story. In all seriousness it was pretty standard for a WoW story. Generic fantasy, feels a little fan-fic-y, little bit of lore butchering. Horde are somehow the bad guys despite the alliance being lead by two batshit crazy light fanatics and a wolfman. *shrug*

I admit, Christie Gold is hardly a great writer, but I read Arthas and thought that while it wasn't great, it was decent, so curious what you mean. Did she take liberties with the lore or you mean her writing in general is awful in that book? I thought it was serviceable.

[Archmage Alodi]

"Sylvanas had no intention to follow the footsteps of hellscream" say whaaat

[Flurryfang]

"Sylvanas had no intention to follow the footsteps of hellscream" say whaaat

Ofcourse not. Sylvanas might do all the horrible things and turn on members of her own faction, but Sylvanas will not be caught out by some random troll xD She will have all those who oppose her killed before then xD

[Traveler Voltin]

official story forums are on fire with hate and rage.

[The Stormbringer]

"Sylvanas had no intention to follow the footsteps of hellscream" say whaaat

That could just mean she doesn't want to go to AU Azeroth (back in time) and take control of the Commanders of Lordaeron to raise a new Iron Alliance with which she will invade normal Azeroth through a Blue Dark Portal!

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official story forums are on fire with hate and rage.

"And honestly, the forums have been taking it really well. The discourse has been rational and criticism well-reasoned, and everyone in general seems to have a positive outlook and--no, it was a SHITSHOW, obviously."

[Nathasil]

I have two points to make:
1) About Sylvanas/Calia/Anduin in the book. Saying Calia was as involved in the meeting "failing" as Sylvanas is just blind Sylvanas-Enablerism at its finest. The Forsaken that were murdered had decided to run for the Alliance before Calia exposed herself...do you honestly believe they would have stayed without Calia there? Or Sylvanas would have given them a pass without Calia there? That's no to say Calia's presence was wise or helped....obviously not. But saying there is "equal blame" is just like "there were good people on both sides" (sorry to always bring "him" up but there are just SO many great quotes by this lunatic that you can apply to these situations...).
Also, it is obvious Sylvanas had prepared for the Dark rangers to kill everybody at her command. They were ready to do this from the start. So obviously she had prepared for it not knowing anything about Calia.

2) For the A-H conflict in the game...the game loses players. BfA so far looks like it could lose more than even Cataclysm did. It is already hard to find people to play with at the end of a patch. The faction split for PvE content makes absolutely no sense and hurts the game a LOT. Especially when you consider that it was only introduced to enable PvP....and Blizzard had to factually ditch it completely for PvP by introducing merc mode 2 years ago. The game just does not work well with the faction split. It is most obvious in PvP, as simply the way Blizzard tells the stories of the factions players interested in PvP are heavily drawn towards the Horde, while players who don't give a fuck about PvP are heavily directed towards the Alliance. Of course Blizzard "could" try and rewrite the factions....but the only thing this will earn them is less players overall, as players will feel alienated by their faction, the story, their own character in this story and ultimately the game.
For PvE content it shows more and more the smaller the playerbase gets. If your main focus in this game is somewhat niche (like mythic raiding) you are already screwed if you want to play Alliance. That's not to say it is impossible to find a group, but it takes far more effort and there simply are so much more opportunities on the red faction, especially if your timetable is constricted by RL issues.
Even good expansions lose players. Bad expansions just lose them faster. So at some point they will HAVE to merge the factions for PvE and the end of BfA looks like the perfect opportunity to do so.