Archimonde vs ALL Scourge

[Kyphael]

Kil'jaeden was not afraid of the power of the Lich King, he was simply enraged by betrayal
And seriously? Epitome? I will explain to you the scheme of the villain in Warcraft
There was a good-happened something bad / came under the mind contorol-became a villain
Arthas differs little from Deathwing
And what does wisps have to do with it? If you were studying lore, you would know that Archimonde was killed with the magic of Aspects that was in Nordrassil
Aspects will eat the Lich King for breakfast

If you don't think The Lich King is literally the best developed Warcraft villain Blizzard's ever had, then you pretty much hate every other villain Blizzard's written because no one has had as much development as Arthas.
You can use that overgeneralization analysis with any villain, really. Doesn't mean they aren't well-written, it just means you lack fundamental skills to critique beyond "everyone's like the devil, was good, something happened, became bad lulz, next."
Arthas is very different from Neltharion, see above.
Archimonde has always been viewed, even in lore, as an arrogant, and poor strategist, even by Kil'jaeden himself. It's why I find laughable he could beat LK and the entire Scourge.
Questionable whether Alextrasza, Ysera, or Nozdormu could just beat Arthas as LK if they wanted, why didn't they, then? They were right there in Northrend helping the war cause. Deathwing for sure after he was pumped full of N'zoth steroids.

[darkoms]

If you don't think The Lich King is literally the best developed Warcraft villain Blizzard's ever had, then you pretty much hate every other villain Blizzard's written because no one has had as much development as Arthas.
You can use that overgeneralization analysis with any villain, really. Doesn't mean they aren't well-written, it just means you lack fundamental skills to critique beyond "everyone's like the devil, was good, something happened, became bad lulz, next."
Arthas is very different from Neltharion, see above.
Archimonde has always been viewed, even in lore, as an arrogant, and poor strategist, even by Kil'jaeden himself. It's why I find laughable he could beat LK and the entire Scourge.
Questionable whether Alextrasza, Ysera, or Nozdormu could just beat Arthas as LK if they wanted, why didn't they, then? They were right there in Northrend helping the war cause. Deathwing for sure after he was pumped full of N'zoth steroids.

Deathwing is older than Arthas as a character, much more time is devoted to him in books and in the game, so why did he get less development?
Alexstrasza was engaged in war with Malygos, Ysera was busy with Nightmare, Nozdormu was busy by a flock of Infinity. Please start learning ENT
Archimonde is one of the best generals of the universe, conquering thousands of worlds.

[Kyphael]

Deathwing is older than Arthas as a character, much more time is devoted to him in books and in the game, so why did he get less development?
Alexstrasza was engaged in war with Malygos, Ysera was busy with Nightmare, Nozdormu was busy by a flock of Infinity. Please start learning ENT
Archimonde is one of the best generals of the universe, conquering thousands of worlds.

In-character ages have little to do with how much actual lore is dedicated to them. Sargergas is one of the oldest characters in WC, how many books does he have about him?
Yeah but if aspects can so easily swoop in and turn LK into mashed potatoes, surely, they could have flown in on ICC and gotten the job done without deviating much from their effort?
Archimonde conquered thousands of worlds with the Burning Legion, but every time he steps into Azeroth, he goes down like a stumbling buffoon, those other worlds must have been cannon-fodder level of bad. Plus, like I said, even Kil'jaeden has in lore recognize Archimonde's shortcomings because of his arrogance.

[Sigxy]

All of Scourge? Definitely, the winner would be the Scourge. Yeah, Archimonde is powerful but the Scourge is pretty powerful too.

[ThePallyRanger]

Surely Archimonde can levitate himself up into the air, making him invulnerable to all the ground forces (ghouls, skeletons, etc.) which I'd imagine account for like 95% of all the Scourge's numbers.

Then just rain endless fire upon them.

[Minikin]

It depends.

Archimonde can change his size and has a crap ton of power. However he is very arrogant. His brute Force might work but might also blind him to ploys from the LK.

I voted archimonde but I do see that it won't be a stomp and roll. Be a pretty brutal fight

[Deleted]

Archimonde can just respawn when he get tired

[darkoms]

In-character ages have little to do with how much actual lore is dedicated to them. Sargergas is one of the oldest characters in WC, how many books does he have about him?
Yeah but if aspects can so easily swoop in and turn LK into mashed potatoes, surely, they could have flown in on ICC and gotten the job done without deviating much from their effort?
Archimonde conquered thousands of worlds with the Burning Legion, but every time he steps into Azeroth, he goes down like a stumbling buffoon, those other worlds must have been cannon-fodder level of bad. Plus, like I said, even Kil'jaeden has in lore recognize Archimonde's shortcomings because of his arrogance.

Sargeras began simply as a demon lord and briefly mentioned in Warcraft 2, but gradually developed and became the main antagonist of Warcraft (before the appearance of the Void Lords)
I repeat to you once again, Aspects were busy with other matters. None of them considered the Lich King to be their personal attention. Malygos, Nightmare and Infinity Dragonflight. If your whole argument is "if they were stronger, they would interfere," you know absolutely nothing about Warcraft, against the Lich King we were assisted by Tyrion, against Deathwing-Aspects and Thrall and so on.
I can not understand why Kil'jaeden has anything to do with it. Even if he knows about the shortcomings of Archimonde, what does it have to do with it? Oh, and the Lich King also could not conquer Azeroth. So since when did he become better than Archimonde as a tactician?

[Clone]

If you don't think The Lich King is literally the best developed Warcraft villain Blizzard's ever had, then you pretty much hate every other villain Blizzard's written because no one has had as much development as Arthas.
You can use that overgeneralization analysis with any villain, really. Doesn't mean they aren't well-written, it just means you lack fundamental skills to critique beyond "everyone's like the devil, was good, something happened, became bad lulz, next."
Arthas is very different from Neltharion, see above.
Archimonde has always been viewed, even in lore, as an arrogant, and poor strategist, even by Kil'jaeden himself. It's why I find laughable he could beat LK and the entire Scourge.
Questionable whether Alextrasza, Ysera, or Nozdormu could just beat Arthas as LK if they wanted, why didn't they, then? They were right there in Northrend helping the war cause. Deathwing for sure after he was pumped full of N'zoth steroids.

Stop pulling shit out of your ass. Archimonde was never considered a poor strategist, he was just the lesser of the two.

[MikeBogina]

My favorite demon versus my favorite character/faction

Archimonde from what we've seen can take on Demi gods, but not aspects. He most likely has become stronger, but he also has died twice in recent times. Once to a bunch of whisps suicide bombing him and again(technically 20ish years prior) he's defeated again by 25 adventurers, Khadgar and his daughter... i mean Y'rel. He also was technically defeated in the caverns of time to 25 adventurers aswell.

The only person who has been confirmed to be able to defeat arthas in a 1v1 is Lei'shen is his prime(not when we fought him) and you can't compare Lei'shen's power to Archimonde, but possibly somewhere between Ra's power and like Aggramar's weaker version. I would safely say that that's more powerful than Archimonde easily.

I personally don't think Arthas would lose in a 1v1 fight against either Archimonde or Kil'jaeden, with no prep for either and just as they both are as we fight them, but it would be a very long and close fight. Archimonde vs Everything that the Scourge is, with Arthas leading it? He wouldn't stand a chance at getting close to Arthas and probably would die quick. The Scourge is a major threat to all life, if takes over azeroth, the universe falls to Death instead of the Void.

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Archimonde can just respawn when he get tired

The dreadlords placed a failsafe on Frostmourne when they first forged it, so that it couldn't be used on "them", this implies that their souls can be devoured/claimed/absorbed at least by undead methods. It also doesn't specify if it was just those who had a hand in creating it, but the Scourge would have 1000's of soul devouring things on the battlefield to get his soul

[Deleted]

Why are people talking about the scourge? The op is asking about scrouge, which I think is the same as the Scrooge. Scrooge McDuck vs Archimonde, hmm....

Archimonde is basically the Sean Bean of Warcraft so I think Scrooge wins.

[Kyphael]

Stop pulling shit out of your ass. Archimonde was never considered a poor strategist, he was just the lesser of the two.

Ok, so you're denying Kil'jaeden has outright criticized Archimonde in lore for his obsession with night elves that has led to his shortcomings?

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Sargeras began simply as a demon lord and briefly mentioned in Warcraft 2, but gradually developed and became the main antagonist of Warcraft (before the appearance of the Void Lords)
I repeat to you once again, Aspects were busy with other matters. None of them considered the Lich King to be their personal attention. Malygos, Nightmare and Infinity Dragonflight. If your whole argument is "if they were stronger, they would interfere," you know absolutely nothing about Warcraft, against the Lich King we were assisted by Tyrion, against Deathwing-Aspects and Thrall and so on.
I can not understand why Kil'jaeden has anything to do with it. Even if he knows about the shortcomings of Archimonde, what does it have to do with it? Oh, and the Lich King also could not conquer Azeroth. So since when did he become better than Archimonde as a tactician?

Well it was specifically said IN LORE, in-game, that Arthas held The Scourge back from wiping out all life on Azeroth. It's why Bolvar had to take up the helm of dominion and take Arthas' place in holding them back, which means if Arthas hadn't done so, as LK he could have conquered Azeroth. Archimonde tried and failed, and then failed again in Draenor. I bring up his failures because he's the recurring major villain who fails the most. Yet he's supposed to single-handedly take down the LK and Scourge?

What I meant was, if the LIFE-ASPECT thought she could stomp the LK who is responsible with plaguing the living and killing countless of innocents thought it easy, she could have led a flight to ICC to take him out once and for all. She did show up to cleanse the ground at Wrath Gate after all, which meant she wasn't too busy.

[cparle87]

Archimonde.

Illidan could have wiped out a big chunk using the Eye of Sargeras. Archimonde is a vastly superior caster compared to Illidan. Zerging him isnt easy, since he can teleport away with ease. Archimonde is just too powerful lorewise. What they did to him in WoD is a perfect representation of the degradation of Warcraft lore.

Didn't Blizz state somewhere that the mythic mode version is their true power? Take Archie for instance. Fighting him on LFR isn't indicative of his true strength. And of course following the rules of gameplay there's going to be some segregation. Is for example Ragnaros in classic so unbelievable weak compared to say Illidan that a group of raiders who could defeat Illidan could kill Ragnaros in seconds? I wouldn't think so.

[darkoms]

Ok, so you're denying Kil'jaeden has outright criticized Archimonde in lore for his obsession with night elves that has led to his shortcomings?

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Well it was specifically said IN LORE, in-game, that Arthas held The Scourge back from wiping out all life on Azeroth. It's why Bolvar had to take up the helm of dominion and take Arthas' place in holding them back, which means if Arthas hadn't done so, as LK he could have conquered Azeroth. Archimonde tried and failed, and then failed again in Draenor. I bring up his failures because he's the recurring major villain who fails the most. Yet he's supposed to single-handedly take down the LK and Scourge?

What I meant was, if the LIFE-ASPECT thought she could stomp the LK who is responsible with plaguing the living and killing countless of innocents thought it easy, she could have led a flight to ICC to take him out once and for all. She did show up to cleanse the ground at Wrath Gate after all, which meant she wasn't too busy.

No, he could not. Third Chronicles say that he would have caused irreparable damage to Azeroth, and not won it. And even so it's just the opinion of Uther and Terenas. And they do not know anything about Aspects or wild gods. Krasus believed that the ancient gods could kill Sargeras.
Malygos worried her much more than the Scourge. And seriously, do you want to prove that Arthas is stronger than Aspects? Arthas is weaker than Lei Shen.
Oh, and tell me. When and where did Kil'jaeden outright criticized Archimonde in lore for his obsession with night elves

[Deleted]

Maybe.. If he doesn't start humping a large tree halfway in the battle.

He also doesn't wear pants, making him very vulnerable against the Lich Kings frost attacks. A frozen willy is no joke.

[Kyphael]

No, he could not. Third Chronicles say that he would have caused irreparable damage to Azeroth, and not won it. And even so it's just the opinion of Uther and Terenas. And they do not know anything about Aspects or wild gods. Krasus believed that the ancient gods could kill Sargeras.
Malygos worried her much more than the Scourge. And seriously, do you want to prove that Arthas is stronger than Aspects? Arthas is weaker than Lei Shen.
Oh, and tell me. When and where did Kil'jaeden outright criticized Archimonde in lore for his obsession with night elves

What ancient Gods do you mean? Old Gods or wild Gods? I doubt neither could so what Krasus thought is irrelevant.
Malygos was dead by the second patch cycle, took much less effort to deal with in he Wrath timeline.
I'll have to get back to you on that. I don't recall where I read it, be it on a forum as a book quote or maybe just fan discussions on Archimonde and whatnot, and what Kil'jaeden thinks of him, but I'll try to track it down.

[Rafoel]

. And seriously, do you want to prove that Arthas is stronger than Aspects? Arthas is weaker than Lei Shen.
s

Arthas (Lich King) is not weaker than Lei Shen.

They only said he would lose in direct 1vs1 combat - which is completely normal, because his physical strength is the strength of human, his speed is the speed of human, and his fighting skills, while considerable, are below those of Varian.

Arthas posed 10000x more threat to the world than Lei Shen ever could.

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Archimonde dwarfs Lei Shen though

Basing on what?

[McFuu]

Interesting. The scourge is a creation of the Legion, by Kil'jaedan's influence over Ner'zhul which also includes Arthas and the Plague. So, it winds up being Archimonde V Kil'Jaedan.

The scourge is a creation of the Dreadlords, before they were in the service of the Legion. They used it initially in the War of the Ancients. Legion borrows from all races under it, so it's hard to tell what parts of the Lich King are an actual creation of KJ and are just more void/shadow style magic from the Dreadlords.
How quickly KJ lost control of LK points to the LK being mostly a creation of the void than demonic influence.

But how powerful the LK really is, is highly debatable. From what Nerzhul says while being turned into the LK it seems that he would be far more powerful than Arthas and his crappy skeletons and skeleton dragons. I get the feeling that Arthas lacks the proper imagination to actually be a fully powered LK.

[Justpassing]

Arthas (Lich King) is not weaker than Lei Shen.

They only said he would lose in direct 1vs1 combat - which is completely normal, because his physical strength is the strength of human, his speed is the speed of human, and his fighting skills, while considerable, are below those of Varian.

Arthas posed 10000x more threat to the world than Lei Shen ever could.

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Basing on what?

Kosak's tweet. He had said Lei Shen would whoop him but Lich King has the upper hand with the scourge.

Also Lei Shen's threat was so great that Azeroth had to be nuked from orbit - as with the reorgination module. Don't get me wrong, I hate all the Pandaria's lore in entirety but we can't just discuss this objectively without taking it all in stride.

[Rafoel]

Kosak's tweet. He had said Lei Shen would whoop him but Lich King has the upper hand with the scourge.

... that's not what I was asking