slight spoilers inside, wouldnt the lorderon scenario destroy the horde?

[Zyky]

e.g. The lightforged joining the alliance provides them the vindicaar.

False, the Vindicaar was never property of the Lightforged. It was Velen's and the Draenei, whom were already part of the Alliance.

This is the same treatment for malfurion. He is so overpowered that he just cant be used.

Captured and rescued by heroes, almost killed by Saurfang just chucking an axe at him. Wouldn't call that overpowered.

As for starting the war. I humbly disagree. Alliance might have sent assasins but these skirmishes over resources and areas have happened since inception. The factions are not at peace. If we really wanted to go back and see who shot first, honestly we would have a huge can of worms. Because as taran zhu said "all i see is a race war".

I mean, it's really clear who started this faction war lol. The Alliance killed miners to get their hands on Azerite under the order of Shaw. There were no hostilities and no weapons until SI:7 started killing miners. There was literally the entire other side of Silithus that they could have gotten Azerite samples from, instead they decided to kill miners for samples.

Cuz where you can say, well you guys killed those goblins. I could say, southshore.

We're talking about who started THIS war. There was peace, there was unity, until Genn put into Anduins head that Sylvanas is the reason Varian is dead. There were skirmishes, but now we're talking about a war.

She has been planning and wanting an attack. Specifically stormwind. Multiple times she has mentioned that in the book.

It's mentioned twice in the whole book, once in the prologue and once in an early chapter. She talks about how later in the book it would be great to have peace, Anduin caused this whole mess, by bringing Calia to the meeting.

Yea sure andiun brought calia there, but come on we both know what blizzard is doing. they always segue by introducing things this way. Calia now has a purpose

This is completely irreverent. Blizzards intent has nothing to do with how the lore is. The lore shows, as I've stated several times, that Shaw started this war by killing innocent miners. Being a member of an opposing faction doesn't make you evil or instantly mean that if you see them you gut them. Sylvanas was willing to give the Alliance once more chance after they fucked her over after she broke free from the Lich King and Anduin blew it. She had the chance to kill him right there and the Alliance would have been splintered for just enough time for her to get to Stormwind and ransack the city and raise a new Undead faction, but she didn't kill him or any other member of the Alliance, she only killed Calia...hmm I wonder why.

[ohwell]

>Cata Horde
>Mists Horde
>Legion Horde
>On the side of good
Once you're done drinking down all that salt pick one and only one.

lol none of those are even remotely not on the side of good otherwise neither is the Alliance.

Cata horde did what that the Alliance didn't. Actions against someone you're at war with are not "evil".

Mists horde was either Garrosh's Mists horde or the real Mists horde that broke off because he was wrong.

Legion horde has the same application as Cata horde, but hell Alliance did more wrong in Legion than the horde.

[Super Dickmann]

lol none of those are even remotely not on the side of good otherwise neither is the Alliance.

Cata horde did what that the Alliance didn't. Actions against someone you're at war with are not "evil".

Mists horde was either Garrosh's Mists horde or the real Mists horde that broke off because he was wrong.

Legion horde has the same application as Cata horde, but hell Alliance did more wrong in Legion than the horde.

Cataclysm Horde is morally equivalent if not worse than BFA Horde. I agree that Alliance was more wrong in Legion.

[ohwell]

Cataclysm Horde is morally equivalent if not worse than BFA Horde. I agree that Alliance was more wrong in Legion.

What exactly did Cata horde do that Alliance did not. Alliance has done equally "bad" things. They are at WAR. About the only ceasefire was SoO.

[Super Dickmann]

What exactly did Cata horde do that Alliance did not. Alliance has done equally "bad" things. They are at WAR. About the only ceasefire was SoO.

The Alliance was not the aggressor in Cataclysm. Garrosh initiated the war for resources for the orcs. It's an understandable aim, but it's still a war of aggression. Stuff like carpetbombing and virtually all the Forsaken do also aren't done by the Alliance.

[Minikin]

False, the Vindicaar was never property of the Lightforged. It was Velen's and the Draenei, whom were already part of the Alliance.

A technicality. It is the starting zone for lightforged now. Besides without us getting bogged down on splitting hairs, that doesnt move anything away from my point. doesnt matter if it belongs to a bunch of leper gnomes from the dwarven district canals. Its a spaceship that is part of the alliance now. yet it will just orbit a planet and be a glorified shadowglen while being pretty much game changing.

Captured and rescued by heroes, almost killed by Saurfang just chucking an axe at him. Wouldn't call that overpowered.

Which is exaclty my point. as per the books and quests that dude is (not supposed but is) this overpowered force of nature. yet again. Since it would be too imba, lets knock him out by an axe, or imprision him in his own sleep (lol) to make the story work.

I mean, it's really clear who started this faction war lol. The Alliance killed miners to get their hands on Azerite under the order of Shaw. There were no hostilities and no weapons until SI:7 started killing miners. There was literally the entire other side of Silithus that they could have gotten Azerite samples from, instead they decided to kill miners for samples.

I have no idea where you are getting this idea of peace. we never established peace just a general working together thing. If anything you would be more correct to blame genn greymane for causing this mess in stormhiem. Who knows. Maybe if he hadnt interfered sylvannas would have found her solution to her peoples survival and thus would never need this conquest for the corpses of stormwind.

Anduins letter very clearly states that they are not at peace. If the alliance killing some goblins means war then i what should the alliance do for southshore, gilneas, astrannar, stonetalon? You see the rabbit hole this creates?

The miners are not the cause for war. Because even in the book sylvannas at arrow point doesnt risk shooting anduin, because it would start a war (she is not ready at that point). Arathi happens AFTER silithus. how a war be started in silithus yet there be no war all of a sudden when they meet in arathi on a "peace summit" (given that its already not so as written in his letter).

We're talking about who started THIS war. There was peace, there was unity, until Genn put into Anduins head that Sylvanas is the reason Varian is dead. There were skirmishes, but now we're talking about a war.

this is incorrect. genn told anduin what happened but anduin confirmed it from sylvannas and got his answer. That has no relation to this war. This war is the usual thing blizzard does, which you as a horde player (assumption, feel free to correct me if iam wrong), should be pissed about. Because once again the horde leadership is being used as an instigator, and the alliance good guys coming to protect and be shiny nice dudes with puppies and unicorns. There was no peace. no treaty has been signed.

The horde once again is being made to look like a faction that doesnt care about the world. This was shown very closely in the book by the different reactions anduin and sylvannas had to the piece of azerite. Then followed up with what ends up happening in arathi. You can blame anduin for calia all you want, but in the end sylvannas ended up shooting a forsaken who stood back long enough just to tell calia to piss off.

wow is not based of just one war. so there is no just THIS war (even if it was the miners do not qualify). the story is moving on that aforementioned rabbit hole. that niether faction totally forgets and some agents within it keep bringing both to war. Just the interesting part now is that at the end of the book they pretty much damned sylvannas while giving genn that line of "i realize now that not all forsaken are monsters" giving him a way out.

It's mentioned twice in the whole book, once in the prologue and once in an early chapter. She talks about how later in the book it would be great to have peace, Anduin caused this whole mess, by bringing Calia to the meeting.

where does she talk about having peace? I cant scroll through the book right now but if you could shoot a page number here i could go check it out.

This is completely irreverent. Blizzards intent has nothing to do with how the lore is. The lore shows, as I've stated several times, that Shaw started this war by killing innocent miners. Being a member of an opposing faction doesn't make you evil or instantly mean that if you see them you gut them. Sylvanas was willing to give the Alliance once more chance after they fucked her over after she broke free from the Lich King and Anduin blew it. She had the chance to kill him right there and the Alliance would have been splintered for just enough time for her to get to Stormwind and ransack the city and raise a new Undead faction, but she didn't kill him or any other member of the Alliance, she only killed Calia...hmm I wonder why.

blizzard's intent is all that matters. which is why this whole faction pride crap is useless and underaged. this is a business with subscriptions. there is no grand depth to this morally grey character and some grand soap opera. It is a video game with opposing factions that will constantly have to come together to fight off the real big bad because if they dont the game ends and so does the money. neither factions can be totally destroyed, because no one wants a 50% reduction in their pay cheque. which is why that last statement will never happen.

it is as inaccurate as those posters saying "oh yea for bfa end i want the forsaken to all die!"

yea sure. how about u tell that to a paying subscriber that "oh yea today u cant log on cuz ure faction doesnt exist. thanks for the money though well keep it"

if she didnt anduin, it isnt because its some amazing moral character of her. its because she literally cant lol....yet. unless they find someone else to replace and move the human faction forward

[Blizzard Moneybot]

The majority of the Horde, along with the majority of the Alliance, is willing to stand by while great evils are committed.

When Forsaken Emisarries attempt to bring diplomatic contact to Stormwind, Darnassus, Ironforge, and Gnomeregan before the beginning of WoW, the common people and soldiers didn't rise up against the King or the soldiers who savagely hunted the emisarries down and murdered them.

Forsaken emissaries never came to Darnassus or the radioactive ruins of Gnomeregan, or even Ironforge.

When Garrosh began segregating the Horde's races into ghettoes and started up his Kor'kron Gestapo around Orgrimmar, the Horde put their heads down and kept going. Your common Orc or Tauren didn't take up pen and paper to start writing papers of intent to present to him.

that's where you're wrong kiddo. There was an entire patch dedicated to this resistance, 5.3.

When Sky Admiral Rogers slaughtered surrendering soldiers it was only Rell Nightwind who screamed against it. The average soldier just pulled the trigger and killed a defenseless orc who was just trying to swim to shore to avoid drowning.

lol defenceless orc? They can crush a human head with their bare hands. They would never surrender either, they were swimming for the ship got murked. Good riddance.

Why would Sylvana killing off some wounded soldiers who couldn't be saved and raising the corpses on the field to fight and protect the Horde even after their death be any different?

Team killing and raising the bones of your own soldiers is a good bit different from shooting the shit out of enemy combatants refusing to surrender.

[Syegfryed]

The Alliance was not the aggressor in Cataclysm. Garrosh initiated the war for resources for the orcs. It's an understandable aim, but it's still a war of aggression. Stuff like carpetbombing and virtually all the Forsaken do also aren't done by the Alliance.

Varian started the war in wrath after wrathgate/undercity

Chronicles stated that Garrosh only increase the conflicts

[Blizzard Moneybot]

Varian started the war in wrath after wrathgate/undercity

ya he totally dumped plague all over the combined forces at the Wrathgate

[Hitei]

What exactly did Cata horde do that Alliance did not. Alliance has done equally "bad" things. They are at WAR. About the only ceasefire was SoO.

Bomb neutral druids, perform horrific experiments on people, attack a country minding their own business, re-blight the plaguelands that were starting to be regrown and then kill and raise farmers.

[Syegfryed]

ya he totally dumped plague all over the combined forces at the Wrathgate

well, He declare war with his own mouth, go talk with him if you have a problem

no wait, you can't because he is dead

k got eem

[Leodric]

Sylvanas holding to her end of the bargain would have put the Forsaken and her in a much worse position. Garithos was a hypocrite who worked with the demons and undead when it was to his advantage and then immediately turned on them when it was no longer to his benefit. Why would she abide by the deal? What would she and her people gain from it? And I think it was @Trippz who claimed that Garithos would have spoken well of them if they had. Absolute hogwash, he threatened them with death immediately once the deal was made and sentenced the sovereign ruler of Quel'thalas to death because he accepted a deal with the naga. There's no defense of Garithos to be had, he was both a dickhead and criminally incompetent and had Sylvanas not intervened in the first place he'd be a mindslave.

Sylvanas is obviously evil. This is a woman who's gassed civilians, experimented with captives and declared wars of aggression on specious grounds, but the people critiquing her are so incompetent that they refuse to use any of these points, instead whining endlessly about her reneging on a deal with a guy who hated her guts and that of her people or killing traitors, while championing Garrosh, who did the exact same shit, except he failed at it or claiming the Horde, which was doing this shit all around her is somehow perverted by being lead by her, when it's just doing what it's always done.

Doesn't matter, breaking a deal doesn't make it "moraly neutral".

[Super Dickmann]

Varian started the war in wrath after wrathgate/undercity

Chronicles stated that Garrosh only increase the conflicts

Leaving that Chronicles also fucked Garrosh's motivation by excluding mention of the orcs starving on the streets and the Twilight's Hammer falseflag, I'm pretty sure that there was a ceasefire afterwards until conflict reignited. I'd be happy to be proven wrong on this, but I don't trust blizz not to have retconned it.
@Leodric

So your position is that a contract is naturally morally good just because it's a contract?

[Leodric]

Leaving that Chronicles also fucked Garrosh's motivation by excluding mention of the orcs starving on the streets and the Twilight's Hammer falseflag, I'm pretty sure that there was a ceasefire afterwards until conflict reignited. I'd be happy to be proven wrong on this, but I don't trust blizz not to have retconned it.
@Leodric

So your position is that a contract is naturally morally good just because it's a contract?

You put words into my mouth. What I am saying is, if you make a deal then you can't complain afterwards what the consequences of this deal are and therefore can't just break it because you think it's not fair. That's common sense and that's why you should think before you make one.

[Deleted]

maybe it's not that the horde changed, but saurfang himself is the first horde member to develop a sense of right and wrong. like the first android suddenly gaining sentience

Orcs: Become Human

[Super Dickmann]

You put words into my mouth. What I am saying is, if you make a deal then you can't complain afterwards what the consequences of this deal are and therefore can't just break it because you think it's not fair. That's common sense and that's why you should think before you make one.

Of course you can. Following a deal is not inherently good. It's made good by the consequences of it and the motivations of the party involved. Following the deal in this case would have fucked over the Forsaken and the motivations of both groups were completely selfish. Sylvanas broke the deal because it was more advantageous to her and her people. If she stood by it, they'd be fucked. Her actions were observably better for the Forsaken.

[Leodric]

Her actions were observably better for the Forsaken.

Cool, still doesn't make it only "moraly grey at worst", as if you've claimed before.

[Super Dickmann]

Cool, still doesn't make it only "moraly grey at worst", as if you've claimed before.

How isn't it? As a leader, Sylvanas is responsible for her people. Acting in their interest, as she did there, is good. Breaking a deal and killing people is bad, thus, a net neutral.

[Mehrunes]

There's also Blizzard trying to have their cake and eat it. They keep painting the player character as a hero, a paragon of their faction, then turn around and consistently paint the Horde out not just as evil, but incompetent and stupid bordering on actively suicidal with its actions every time the faction war comes into play. The same hero who supposedly took down the Lich King for his atrocities is now not just abiding but actively helping Sylvanas do the same and worse; this should be especially jarring for Forsaken players considering the lore behind them.

Do same and worse? I'm sorry, when has Sylvanas almost scoured two large nations of life, together with bits and pieces of other nations? The comparisons of Sylvanas to the Lich King get more unhinged every day.

Stormwind most likely knew about it.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Kristoff_(human)

Yeah, a guy that never set foot in Stormwind as far as anyone knows and who left Garithos' force the moment he allied with the Forsaken, long before he died is obviously a sign of Stormwind knowing what happened to Garithos.

>.> if death knights weren't accepted by the factions you're argument might have merit.....

But that is inconvenient to @Magnagarde's narrative, so Universal Values dictate it should be cast out and ignored.

Do note how your mention of the betrayal is being swept under the rug.

Do note how Kristoff left because of Garirthos allying with Sylvanas, i.e. before the betrayal, i.e. preventing him from knowing what happened, i.e. robbing you and Tripzzz of your flimsy argument. Wait, what am I saying. Of course you won't note it, because whining about Sylvanas for years at a time demands putting logic on the back burner.

Cheers for the source. Then even more reason they should act aggressively.

They have jack shit of a reason to act aggressively because Kristoff, i.e. someone who wasn't there and as such had zero tangible knowledge and would effectively be talking out of his ass, is a worthless source of information.

i don't remember that guy.. at all... was he added in a side story when they started doing more with books or something?

edit:

also bonus points for pointless character trying to incite war for... well... reasons and I guess they were good reasons....

You missed the best part. In that Kristoff left before Garithos' and Sylvanas' forces assaulted Lordaeron. Which means he had zero actual knowledge and the only thing he could offer to the Alliance was unsupported prejudice.

And given how the very context of this discussion was @Steampunkette's argument that the Alliance acted in prejudice manner against the Forsaken envoys, trying to use Kristoff as a counterargument against that notion is fucking brilliant. But of course the geniuses that bring him up won't notice that.

@Tripzzz gets even more brilliance points, because they brought him up after trying to dismiss Nathanos' reasons for disliking the Alliance as propaganda. But Kristoff, who has no tangible information on the matter of what happened to Garithos, is obviously totes legit source!!1! And it gets even better. Because we don't know how involved or not Nathanos was in the diplomatic effort. On the other hand we know for a fact Kristoff was not present during Garithos' demise.

Death knights show a much, much smaller grade of decay, which is why they're physically and aesthetically less frightening and concerning at first glance, unlike their more... bony and fleshed out counterparts. They've also recieved no heroes' reception in Stormwind, with being insulted as they enter and their execution being called for by the various folk in the city.

Except Forsaken vary wildly in appearance in lore, depending on when they were resurrected and what their state was before that. As seen in BtS. Also, everything you said about Death Knights was forgotten the moment it was discovered Tirion vouched for them.

On top of this, the most prominent of them on the Alliance side - Thassarian - has fought for the restoration of Alliance territories to what they were in the past(ie the restoration of the city, the farms, the repopulation of it), as is witnessed in Andorhal, unlike his Forsaken - and at the time free willed - counterparts which have betrayed the last remaining Alliance forces in Lordaeron and murdered them.

This argument is illogical. You try to use the fact that Thassarian fought for the Alliance in Lordaeron as a reason why Alliance accepts Death Knights. Except here's the thing. He didn't just fight for the Alliance there. He was the commander in charge. Which requires the Alliance being more than OK even before that. And the only way you could support that with Thassarian's deeds in Lordaeron is if you also argued that he's a time traveller.

Also, you're exhibiting a complete ignorance of what Alliance is. It's, newsflash, an alliance. As such it has no territories they could restore where Thassarian was fighting. Lordaeron, their former member, had territories there. Alliance has zero claim whatsoever to territories of even their current members, let alone their former members.

And Alliance remains unaware of what happened to Garithos, making your argument moot. Unless you know something no one else does, in which case, do share.

So now Calia trying to exert her legitimate right by blood is now a justification for Sylvanas going gung-ho on her own "people" who apparently have "free will".

They have free will. Humans also have free will. Does the nation of Stormwind allow treason? No? Does it allow supporting claimants to the throne against Anduin? No? Then guess what, genius, your argument collapsed on itself.

What at first seems to be a deflection stops being a deflection when every direction it is deflected into proves the initial fact it was meant to prove. And that is that no playable race/group consider their undead counterparts "people" or equals. This is a universal fact that means to show you that nobody would consider a crime lorewise in the game, other than said undead.

Which is why Thassarian is not only equal to the army sent to WPL, he was above anyone else there in rank. With zero dissent on the grounds on him being undead. Before his actions there could be used by Stormwind to think that maybe DKs aren't as bad as other undead.

I don't have to prove anything. There is enough reasonable doubt to question Nathanos' version of what happened because you can't prove he was there to witness it. End of story.

And where does this doubt come from, exactly? Other than "I don't like what Nathanos is saying (while I'll bring Kristoff who we know for a fact was not present during the event he was talking about, because double standards are fun)", that is.

What we however do know out of character is that he'll go to any lenght in the story to legitimize whatever Sylvanas says and does. After all, we're talking about a guy who had an entire high elven lodge erradicated to recover a book that touches upon his history with Sylvanas.

And, pray tell, how does the Lodge event prove your claim that Nathanos does everything to legitimize whatever Sylvanas says and does when there's jack shit indicating her involvement in that (and as Lor'themar and Halduron speculated, she would be unlikely to even care had she knew about it), with Nathanos sending the players after it just because it belonged to him.

True. But thats still 12 years of you not knowing about him though.

And 12 years of you not knowing about him not being present during Sylvanas' betrayal.

Because the same undead have continued doing even worse things under the leadership of the same undead that ordered this betrayal in the first place.

Do mention all those things that happened between Garithos' demise and Sylvanas sending envoys to the Alliance.

Especially when that "cognizance" doesn't go beyond plague-bombing a town, then a kingdom, then digging up graves and desecrating the resting places of the dead to raise more undead on the orders of a leader who committed the previously stated initial betrayal and who herself emotes that undeath is a curse.

Yup, no Forsaken has ever done anything else than that. And, since you're hang up on the Bloght, obviously a rock could also develop a complex chemical weapon, which obviously supports the notion that Forsaken aren't people.

Sure. But he knows about how Garithos was betrayed by the forsaken and he managed to escape to Theramore. Pretty important honestly. That gives the Alliance plently of justification for not trusting a single forsaken "diplomat". Only a retard would trust a known backstabber *cough* varimathras *cough*

You're lying through your teeth. Kristoff has no such knowledge. He left before that happened because he didn't trust the Forsaken. So all he could offer the rest of the Alliance was his opinions about Forsaken. Which gives the Alliance zero justification to outright attack Forsaken diplomats.

I suppose that is easier to do than actually have a logical objection to what I've said when it comes to their... "cognizance", if we can call it that judging by what they're using it for.

A logical objection to what, exactly? "Undead can't be considered people because I and the Universal Values that guide me say so"? A logical objection is not required to dismiss that pile of nonsense, because it itself is not logical to begin with. "Lel no" would be a sufficient counterargument against that, already. And bringing up cognitive ability like @mickybrighteyes did is a logical contention.

Kristoff knew of the "alliance" between the forsaken and Garithos. He literally urged Garithos to reconsider his alliance with the Forsaken, believing them to be treacherous. After Garithos was never seen again and the Forsaken controlled the city, it easy to come to the conclusion the forsaken betrayed the Alliance(which is still the same Alliance) especially since kristoff already deemed them treacherous. Theramore has strong ties to Stormwind. It would have been easy to receive the info from Kristoff.

Yeah, it's not like there were Dreadlords, Scourge or even the Scarlet Crusade in the region. Please, you're trying to force a narrative and you ignore every other potential explanation in order to do it. Which, going back to Stormwind on which you project this nonsense, is still no actual justification for Stormwind to attack Forsaken diplomats. Because all they'd have would be an illogical conclusion based on prejudice nonsense from someone who wasn't present during the event he talked about. So yeah, it would have been easy to receive info from Kristoff. Good job focusing on that and brushing the much more important part of that information having zero value under the carpet just because it destroys your brilliant narrative.

Sending an emissary to a group of people you just allied and betrayed and murdered was obviously not going to work. It was wrong to kill them but no surprise at all, and I'm sure since sylvanas worshippers think she's such a magnificent genius she must have known that.

Well, at least it is likely Sylvanas was genius enough to have the mental capacity required to recognize that after she killed everyone from Garithos' army there was no way for the rest of the Alliance to know that, which in turn would have prevented said rest of Alliance to act in any particular way against the Forsaken based on that information on the grounds of not having that information.

@Tripzzz
Considering he felt so dismissed politically that he sought an alliance with a fodder demon to take revenge on the Horde, I'm pretty sure he wasn't all that respected and his beliefs weren't all that well known.

And that's all that it was. Beliefs. Kristoff had no real knowledge, let alone proof. All he had was prejudice. Which is worthless for the Alliance to base their diplomacy on.

Have we reached the 2.0 version of Universal Values™?

I'd say it's a progenitor. What could have spawned Universal Values™ if not Universal Facts™?

So did Slyvanus. She thought she was in control but Varimathras played her like a fiddle and she had to get help to bail herself out.

That doesn't mean she worked for a demon because English is a thing.

Killing forsaken diplomats that work for a person who had betrayed your own allies is not unjustified. There was valid reason for the humans to be suspicious of an offer to form an alliance with the forsaken. The previous alliance was repaid with knives in their backs.

Killing Forsaken diplomats that work for a person who had betrayed your own allies is unjustified if you have no knowledge about that betrayal taking place. And Kristoff's rambling still isn't knowledge no matter how hard you try to alter reality.

No, but as you said it's not moral to preemptively attack people for what you suspect they might do. And what is Ashenvale if not that? The night elves sent their forces south to Silithus, not towards Orgrimmar. Are you saying that Sylvanas and Saurfang are wrong?! Or are you selectively applying what's moral in interpersonal situations to a war?

Except hostilities in Silithus were already ongoing. Stormheim happened a year prior. And Night Elves sent their army to Silithus because they thought the Horde army was going there. So what does the fact they didn't send it towards Orgrimmar change? They still sent it to intercept a Horde force. And it's highly unlikely it was for a party.

Call it revenge for Garithos and his fallen men then. A correct analogy would be to killing your significant other tonight because they already poisoned your friend yesterday.

To call it revenge the Alliance would need to be clairvoyant. And Velen joined the Alliance only a few years after Kristoff died.

He was never loyal to her. She was just too stupid to realize it. Just because Slyvanus thought he was working for her doesn't make it true. He was working for the Legion the entire time. Lel indeed.

Stop moving goalposts. You claimed that Sylvanas worked for a demon. Varimathras not being truly loyal to Sylvanas does not magically mean that he was Sylvanas' boss. Your "counterargument" against @Zulkhan here is below weak.

Of course they stopped contact. Garithos was dead at that point. Theramore was established as an Alliance base on Kalimdor, i find it extremely unlikely it had no contact with the main leader of the Alliance.

Which addresses squat from @Aucald's point on how the contact from Theramore would take longer than contact from Sylvanas' Lordaeron. Also, before his death, Garithos was the leader of the Alliance. Given the circumstances of his death, it would have taken some time for the rest of the Alliance to learn that and appoint Stormwind as the new leader in turn. Which makes your point about reasons for Theramore being in contact with Stormwind suspect.

So, was it really so hard to figure out WHY the diplomats would be "hunted down", or is it too much fun bloviating about morality?

*Meanwhile in WotLK* Oh, look, Stormwind had no problems recognizing an envoy from the Ebon Blade. Who'd have thunk.

Because the history of the Scourge in no way includes deception.

And what would this deception achieve? As you acknowledged, the envoys were visibly undead, removing the element of surprise. So the only way it could work was tricking the humans they are diplomats so they'd be let inside the city and then... what, exactly?

So you admit Slyanas is part of the Scourge. Good, progress.

The Scourge constantly used infiltration and deception to weaken areas or convert them. Kel'thuzad being tricked into coming to Icecrown, Stratholme and its famous grain, a traitor dropping the Quel'thalas shield, outright lying over and over about gaining "immortality", and the list goes on, shown from WC3 through Wrath.

You mean using the living to infiltrate the living, because they can actually intermingle with the rest without any suspicion, times 3? Yup, applies so well to sending undead to Stormwind's gates.

[Steampunkette]

Forsaken emissaries never came to Darnassus or the radioactive ruins of Gnomeregan, or even Ironforge.

that's where you're wrong kiddo. There was an entire patch dedicated to this resistance, 5.3.

lol defenceless orc? They can crush a human head with their bare hands. They would never surrender either, they were swimming for the ship got murked. Good riddance.

Team killing and raising the bones of your own soldiers is a good bit different from shooting the shit out of enemy combatants refusing to surrender.

According to the Lore she got desperate and sent emisarries to all the major players and it was only the ones that went to the Horde that returned, and only the ones who went to Mulgore that succeeded. If you're already sending Emissaries to Orgrimmar and the Tauren have joined the Horde why would you send Emissaries to Mulgore? Oh. Because she was desperate and sending people to all the major players. Which would include Ironforge and Darnassus. You're probably right about Gnomer, though.

Yes. 5.3 the Darkspear Revolution got it's legs. What happened in 5.0, 5.1, and 5.2? Why weren't the Tauren holding sit-ins and peaceful protests around Orgrimmar? That would be the part I was referring to. They accepted evil. It wasn't until later that they did anything.

Yes. Defenseless orcs. A man in water, swimming, is no threat to a man standing on the shoreline with a gun. But if he gets to you, he can disarm you, or break your neck, or do a wide variety of other forms of damage to you. Stop pretending like humans are frail weaklings compared to orcs, they can fight in hand to hand combat to a standstill 'til a Panda comes up and whups both their asses. The Pandaria Cinematic should've show you that.

In a desperate situation where there's no opportunity to rescue the wounded who are dying on the field of battle, while the enemy is advancing on your position. In WW1 it wasn't uncommon to kill your own troops with the deployment of mustard gas. At least 2,000 wounded soldiers were confirmed to have been killed by the stuff being deployed by their allies. Shit happens in war.

Admittedly they weren't raised from the dead as mindless bone-puppets to fight against the enemy, but we make allowances for fantasy, don't we? And, again, in a desperate situation where those bones are being used to continue the fight against the enemy... well.

Other than Saurfang I doubt this incident is going to cause some major schism or "Destroy" the Horde as the OP asked. And I point to other evil actions that were allowed to slide as evidence of that.