Germany to back reducing tariffs on US cars

[NED funded]

That certainly explains the tariffs on every country that isn't China, doesn't it.

And the point isn't that TPP would solve the situation by its lonesome. The point is that China needs more customers than the US and the potential of throttling their expansion is infinitely worse for their economy than tariffs on goods that will still be cheaper than the ones made elsewhere and thus will still be bought by American consumers since the entire reason these products are popular is because they are magnitudes cheaper than American or European-made ones, and by far more than 10 or even 25%. Trump knows that, it's why he makes his MAGA hats there.

I need to remind everyone that the 2001 agreement to let her enter the WTO was a far bigger bargaining chip and yet here we are.

[Nalera]

The idea that trade deficits are suddenly the death-knell for an economy is really stupid to me.

Yeah, you got a deficit. So what? Trade is hardly the be-all and end-all of economic measures. Some types of economic activity (say, manufacturing vs service economy) generate more trade but that doesn't mean they generate more wealth or jobs.

That doesn't mean it's not an issue, but it is hardly an all-important one. Let the Chinese pad their currency and export cheap shit, which will be in jeopardy soon anyway as wages start to go up in that country. Be more worried about their widespread intellectual property theft and their rising global influence, because that's what makes them a danger to America.

And be secure in the fact that the US having a practical stranglehold on the global financial market grants it far, far more economic power than any amount of trade balance surplus ever will. At least unless Trump pisses away the soft power that partly allows that to happen.

In 1980 the US had more foreign assets than all the other foreign creditors put together, the US used to sell more high-quality, low-cost goods than any other country and we paid the highest wages and now 40 years later the US owns more foreign debt then all the other debtor nation put together. We have 21 trillion dollars worth of national debt and the payment on the interest alone is more than 300 billion a year on bond yields that are not even above 3%. What happens when China decides to allow its 1 trillion dollars in American bonds to mature? The interest on the nation debt is going to skyrocket, the federal reserve will have to print more money and the entire US economy will implode as inflation goes through the roof. The problem that faces America in future is a sovereign debt and currency crisis.

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Self-pity.

Lol? And yet the socialists that have taken over the US so they can have 40% of year-on-year gdp go to taxes to pay for their stupid entitlements and hand out welfare cheques to everyone don't show any self-pity.

[Exeris]

German cars can also be terrible and very expensive when something breaks.
My Parents got a Mercedes A-Class and even with just 20000-30000km run time they pay each year 1000-2000€ for small repairs and another 500-1000€ just for maintenace.

The maintenance cost of my BMW is well above average(thankfully I fix most of it my self), but what I like about them is that when something breaks it's usually something "irrelevant", like sunroof, LCD screens, resistors, CCV or vacuum hoses. I feel very safe driving and it gets me home.

[Draco-Onis]

Quotas are literally called Tariff rate quotas dude. There are tariffs once you pass the limit set by the quota.



Regulations are far more big-gunn-y than tariffs. Buy American laws are technically regulations but they are far more protectionist than a tariff would be on the same products.

That's your opinion and it is wrong because those measures don't result in a tit for tat immediate reaction, are you aware of how this has been done?

So each administration should try to negotiate with an actor who clearly is not interested in good faith negotiations and has shown that it never bothers to complies with agreements?? The definition of stupidity is....

According to you things have never changed with China which is false we have gotten progress as time goes on, I know you have a boner with China but how do you justify tariffs on all our major allies? there is no strategy it is pure idiocy that you are supporting. The best way to get China to kneel is to use the WTO, our allies and all the soft power we have you know the exact opposite that we are doing now. You seem to just support action for the sake of action, you are cheering for someone cutting both their legs in order to lose weight plain insanity.

[Jastall]

I need to remind everyone that the 2001 agreement to let her enter the WTO was a far bigger bargaining chip and yet here we are.

So you (royal you) counter a bad idea with more bad ideas? Reality isn't math, two negatives don't end with a positive.

I'm also not certain why the comparison is made since, you know, the point of the TPP is that China isn't in it. The point of not tariffing your allies is that China wouldn't have allies of circumstances and the US wouldn't waste their effort, attention and most importantly time in pissing contests with countries that, in the grand scheme of things, are very fair to it trade-wise. It's especially funny to see trump bitching about Canada when we run a trade deficit with the US despite all their whining about NAFTA. But I guess fairness only counts when you can whine about it.

[Morrigenn]

Well, it's a shame that "conservatives' have given up on individual liberty, limited government, and the free markets.

What do they have left besides racism, nationalism, and hatred for abortion?

Seems to be the winning trifecta right there.....

[Noxx79]

Your a moron who doesn't understand economics. If you put tariffs on every country but say Canada. Then China will just dump steel & aluminum in Canada. And if these "allies" didn't put 10% tariffs vs 2.5%, in other words traded "fairly" then Trump would not have to result to these measures. And btw China is not an ally they are unbelievable competitive and industrious and China has more than a 300 BILLION dollar surplus with America, and they have the audacity to put 25% duties on American cars. The US will not last long running near trillion dollar trade deficits and that's a fact.

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Are you dense? The EU charges 10 percent tariffs on cars from the US while we charge 2.5%. So the US must be the only country that trade freely without tariffs? what kind of moron are you.

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Once again you know nothing about economics, China dumps more steel & aluminum than any country. Dumping means you sell the product at a lower price then it takes to manufacture, the only reason you would ever do something like that is to hurt your competition and drive them out of the market. And if tariffs are levied in every country but one then they will just dump their steel in that country, stop watching CNN and MSNBC please. America doesn't need TPP to trade more, it needs to trade less, with countries who run up massive trade deficits, you think Trump is putting tariffs on countries so he can trade more? Do you even know what a tariff is.

Tarriffs are NOT free trade. You seem to be really confused. If tarriffs are bad, why would you enact then? If someone robs your house, do you rob theirs? No. You punish them so they don’t rob them again. If trump really wanted free trade, he would be in talks to stop tariffs. Not enacting them.

You’re whining about equal and fair trade, but someone who believes trump would have difficulty understanding words.

[Draco-Onis]

Lol? And yet the socialists that have taken over the US so they can have 40% of year-on-year gdp go to taxes to pay for their stupid entitlements and hand out welfare cheques to everyone don't show any self-pity.

1) US budget != GDP.
2) The biggest voting block against entitlement reform are right wing ask Bush.
3) Entitlement reform according to the right is not reform just privatize the entire thing which solves nothing.

[NED funded]

According to you things have never changed with China which is false we have gotten progress as time goes on

You are welcome to point me to such progress that was achieved as the result of the US and China negotiating.

I know you have a boner with China but how do you justify tariffs on all our major allies?

I never did.

The best way to get China to kneel is to use the WTO

Have you forgotten the credit card case Obama won multiple times??

China has stopped giving any fuck about WTO rulings. Same with the EU, but that is another story.

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I'm also not certain why the comparison is made since, you know, the point of the TPP is that China isn't in it. .

How it works is similar. Use accession to TPP markets as a bargaining chip to make China comply to new US rules. Accession to the WTO was a far bigger bargaining chip and yet here we are.

[Draco-Onis]

China has stopped giving any fuck about WTO rulings. Same with the EU, but that is another story.

I said WTO and all our allies, China cannot fight the entire world they have been ripping off intellectual property from everyone and we HAD the soft power to create this alliance. US going after China is a tough but winnable fight, US fighting the whole world and china is a lost battle, all Trump has done is opened doors for China none of his trade strategies have paid big dividends. Where are all the better bigger deals he promised (TPP, Paris accord and NAFTA)? oh right he has managed to screw us out or tank all of them.

[Mormolyce]

If I were the EU, I'd seriously make Trump hurt by coordinating between several countries select tariffs that were designed to be specifically punitive to industries in red states, but only marginally punitive to blue states. (Trump would likely appreciate the latter) The swiftest kick in the ass to his support would be to hurt those that voted for him rather than against him. The only people who can put pressure on Trump to alter his position is his fanatical base and that just won't happen without hitting them right in the pocket books,.

They already are.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/02/b...ffs-trump.html

So is China, and Canada likely is too.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...es-retaliation

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Lol? And yet the socialists that have taken over the US so they can have 40% of year-on-year gdp go to taxes to pay for their stupid entitlements and hand out welfare cheques to everyone don't show any self-pity.

You're not very good at this, are you?

[Maneo]

The Ford F-150 I see quite a lot. Either construction workers or window cleaners

When i was over there a few years back the Mustangs seemed to be really hot.

[melodramocracy]

I cant think of a reason to pick an American brand over a European one or Japanese one.

At least as far as sportier cars go.. bang for the buck, part prices, ease and cost of upgrades, ease of DIY maintenance and upgrades. Maybe US car parts are pricier overseas, no idea.

[Independent voter]

America Doesn’t Need Trade Like Other Nations Do


Donald Trump may have an upper hand in trade talks because America needs its partners less than any other advanced economy.

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development says the U.S. has the most limited ties to foreign commerce of any country in the group, using new measures that look at both trade and investment flows.


OECD
One such broader measure showed the “international orientation’’ of the U.S. was equal to 13 percent of gross domestic product in 2014, according to OECD figures tallied up last month. It's the first time the Paris-based group has calculated such a measure to track national income that is tied to both exports and profits made by the foreign affiliates of domestic companies.

And when it comes to Trump's threat to take on Mexico, such figures may strengthen his hand even further. Another wider trade measurement pushes Mexico further down the rankings of U.S. partners, leaving it behind Japan, the U.K. and Germany in sixth place. That’s worse than Mexico’s 2014 positions of second place for exports and third place for imports.


OECD
One complication is the U.S. is negotiating with Canada as well as Mexico under the North American Free Trade agreement, which Trump has threatened to rip up. Trump has moved between suggesting he only needs tweaks from Canada to escalating tensions over dairy and aircraft markets. The fresher OECD data shows Canada is a harder trade partner to break up with, coming in with the No. 2 ranking in overall trade after China.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...her-nations-do


Our economy is pretty insular. You can see this in action historically where the rest of the world's economies are in the shitter but the US economy keeps chugging along.

I'd go out of my way not to piss the American public off if I were a foreign power.

[Deleted]

Nationalistic bullshit

I'd go out of my way not to piss the American public off if I were a foreign power.

Americans cannot find their own Country on a map, name their own vice President and a good amount of them still do not know that the earth orbits the Sun and some of them know the Simpsons better then their amendments.

I really got better things to worry about, then what such a group of people are upset about.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-ignorant.html

[Serpha]

Do many Europeans event want or buy American cars?

Ford? You've never seen one in UK?

[Slant]

And German markets are some of the most patriotic markets in the world, they only buy German. So are Japanese markets btw.

While the result is the same and you're right about that, the phrasing is a bit imprecise. It's not that we only buy German. We only buy quality products. And that includes fuel efficiency. Consider German petrol prices to the US and you'll understand why we don't buy US cars.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...und-the-world/

$6.43/gallon in Germany vs. $2.99/gallon in the US. That's more than double the price.

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A story: friend of mine who has a lot of money recently bought a very expensive Audi sports car. I asked him why he didn't by a Ferrari. His answer: "I like the door to go CLUNK when it closes, not some plastic sound."

Fun fact. German car manufacturers actually employ sound designers to work on the sound of a door closing. I'm not shitting you. It's real.

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Mind you, whether Germany agrees or not is not that important. This is the EU's decision. Germany can only lobby for it if they wanted to. If the EU disagrees, there's not much Germany can do but rely on the EU to retaliate accordingly.

[Forogil]

The Ford F-150 I see quite a lot. Either construction workers or window cleaners

As far as I know F-150 is a light truck (only made in the US), not a car.

Thus the US had a 25% tariff on import compared to the EU's 10%.

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And just to complicate it further.
It seems that the new tariffs in this Trump-started trade war are causing a problem for the premium German car manufacturers.

The new Chinese tariffs on imported cars that is.

https://www.economist.com/business/2...rman-carmakers

Basically BMW and Daimler make cars in America; too many in fact (of the few models they make there) - and export the extra ones to China (despite China having higher tariffs than EU) - and higher Chinese import tariffs as retaliation against the US will hurt that export from the US (moving production of German cars from the US to China seems like an option).

[Machismo]

Quotas are literally called Tariff rate quotas dude. There are tariffs once you pass the limit set by the quota.



Regulations are far more big-gunn-y than tariffs. Buy American laws are technically regulations but they are far more protectionist than a tariff would be on the same products.



So each administration should try to negotiate with an actor who clearly is not interested in good faith negotiations and has shown that it never bothers to complies with agreements?? The definition of stupidity is....

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We are making progress. What do you think should be done when someone doesn't comply with agreements??

Don't do business with them. That does not require government intervention.

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10% vs 2.5%?

Who is the one that opposes free trade again? Maybe you should re-read the article, Trump has said a million times "fair trade", lefties confuse that with "he's against free trade", I'm not sure how you confuse the two.

Both governments oppose free trade, I never said otherwise. Fair trade is not free trade, far from it.

I'm a small-government conservative, someone who actually supports individual liberty, limited government, and the free markets... unlike all the Trumpsters.

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Tell you what we get rid off the welfare state and we can go back to free markets.

I would love to get rid of the welfare state. Start with politicians, the elderly, farmers, the military, veterans, government contractors, and those too lazy to get jobs and provide for themselves.

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Seems to be the winning trifecta right there.....

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

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How sad that you can't answer a simple question. We know how blue your blood is!

I said I would gladly answer your question, just as soon as you backed up the claim you made a month ago.

The best part about it, is that if you actually looked at my posting history that you claimed to know, you would already have your answer. But hey, I'm not going to do your work for you. I'm just going to call you out for the liar that you are.

[Exeris]

I would love to get rid of the welfare state. Start with politicians, the elderly, farmers, the military, veterans, government contractors, and those too lazy to get jobs and provide for themselves.

Could turn out to be a good movie, slight hint of mad max about it when people start fighting for survival.