Name 3 problems with a movie you love

[Ivanstone]

In the actual film it clearly took time. Your inability to understand how they demonstrate the passage of time is on you. Again, why would they spend time showing the weeks long journey where everyone was bored on the Falcon? We know it took them a while because Luke was training with Yoda during that time.

My inability to understand how they make no reference to the passage of time? No reference is made. Its not a few hours away. Its not a few weeks away. Its a plothole that you already stated existed. Its plothole very few people care about because the rest of the movie is great. Hence what this thread is about.

Summarizing:
1 - A really great movie was a goofy plothole in the middle of it.
2 - A really great movie also had the dumbest character in Star Wars. Who apparently can travel back in time.

[Deleted]

Matrix

1. it has a sequel

2. It has another sequel

3. Another reboot/prequel/whatever is in the works.

[The Stormbringer]

LOTR's

Great Trilogy.

until the very end last part, MANNNN wha what the fuck FLYING EAGLE things, where the fuck were these things two movies ago? FUCK you GANDALF!

I mean, the entire armies of Sauron were distracted, as well as all the Naz'gul, and his attention was drawn away. I'm pretty sure he'd notice some giant eagles flying in. Especially if Sarumon was on his side and also keeping an eye on things with his swarms of birds or whatever.

[eschatological]

All the Bourne movies:

1) Amnesia doesn't work that way where you can remember complex skills like being an assassin but not your identity.
2) Off-the-books CIA operations are......well, not this grandiose. An off-the-book operation is an operative running an asset in some remote corner of the world. It doesn't involve several off-the-book safehouses/HQs, a staff of seemingly hundreds, and doesn't include the CIA Director but just one of his Assistant Directors having carte blanche..
3) Supposedly these assassins were trained to be the perfect assassin - but then a kid triggers Bourne to not kill his target? Why not just kill the kid too? Is the implication that his human instinct to protect children can't be brainwashed away from him but his compunction to not murder people illegally can be?

[Puupi]

1. Most of the acting is terrible.
2. Cinematography is mostly bad.
3. Production design is fairly cheap/low budget.

Robocop.

Robocop is awesome!

I assume you are talking about the original one.

[Deficineiron]

Film theory to the rescue!

the Middle Earth Taxi Service (the eagles, used for convenient plot point transport in both the hobbit and lotr (books), had been discussed for decades prior to the movie, both in terms of how they were used and why they were not to just skip the bulk of the story. Jackson's use of the eagles in LOTR was fairly true to the book iirc, both escaping from orthanc and at the black gate/crack of doom - there was no messenger moth in the books, however.

"The Eagles are a dangerous 'machine'. I have used them sparingly, and that is the absolute limit of their credibility or usefulness. The alighting of a Great Eagle of the Misty Mountains in the Shire is absurd; it also makes the later capture of G. [Gandalf] by Saruman incredible, and spoils the account of his escape" (Letter 210).

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In the actual film it clearly took time. Your inability to understand how they demonstrate the passage of time is on you. Again, why would they spend time showing the weeks long journey where everyone was bored on the Falcon? We know it took them a while because Luke was training with Yoda during that time.

I liked the movie, but just based on the 4Q2/Han/Leia thread, it isn't clear if it was a few days? The usual establishers for longer periods of time passing were not used with those actors. The only way to infer passage of time was to assume that the cuts between them and luke were in 'real-time' essentially, thus using obvious passage of time for luke (weeks?) to set the same for them.

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In the actual film, it took no time at all. Time was not referenced in the slightest. Furthermore, it was plainly stated that Bespin was a different system. It could be 1 LY apart and that is still too far away.

For years, I just assumed that they temporarily fixed the drive but that's not properly referenced either.

to be fair, all this is pretty tame compared to the force awakens, where people on different planets in different systems 'watch' the new death star blowing up some other planet - in real time too, and hyperspace travel really is treated like it is just a few minutes.

[Wezmon]

All the Bourne movies:

1) Amnesia doesn't work that way where you can remember complex skills like being an assassin but not your identity.

This can and does happen. It's a type of retrograde amnesia where procedural memory is retained.

[Direpenguin]

My dad had his own vinyard for the last 20 or so years to make wine for himself and us without paying for the overly priced crap you find in shops. Doesn’t mean that they MUST be doing it for the money...

Does everyone who wants one get a vineyard also? Where does Picard get all the materials required to make wine? Are there some people who just wanted to make fertilizer, and they give it to him just because?

The whole 'no money' and 'people do what they enjoy' just doesn't make any sense.

[Wezmon]

Does everyone who wants one get a vineyard also? Where does Picard get all the materials required to make wine? Are there some people who just wanted to make fertilizer, and they give it to him just because?

The whole 'no money' and 'people do what they enjoy' just doesn't make any sense.

All of that would be made via the replicator and if needed, I assume some sort of robot workforce. But yeah it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Money has more to it than wealth. The idea is that the Federation has eliminated the want for wealth accumulation. But that doesn't mean they should have eliminated money.

[eschatological]

This can and does happen. It's a type of retrograde amnesia where procedural memory is retained.

Procedural memory is innate. I find it hard to believe all his skills at fighting/gunplay/etc are innate to who he is.

[Wezmon]

Procedural memory is innate. I find it hard to believe all his skills at fighting/gunplay/etc are innate to who he is.

It depends how well trained in those things he was. I could easily see things like gunplay become second nature and part of procedural memory. There are examples of people with profound retrograde amnesia retaining quite complex learnt procedural skills such as the ability to play the piano.

Obviously the film takes some liberties, the biggest being Bourne shows no sign of anterograde amnesia, which would be unlikely given the extent memory loss.

Some interesting reading here:
https://www.neuropsyfi.com/reviews/the-bourne-identity

as one of the comments points out, Bourne was part of the Treadstone program which could account for any unusual psychological effects.

[Deficineiron]

This can and does happen. It's a type of retrograde amnesia where procedural memory is retained.

unrelated but notable (imo) - A historical fiction/fantasy novel about a soldier with both retrograde and anterograde amnesia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldier_of_the_Mist

[un_known]

Does everyone who wants one get a vineyard also? Where does Picard get all the materials required to make wine? Are there some people who just wanted to make fertilizer, and they give it to him just because?

The whole 'no money' and 'people do what they enjoy' just doesn't make any sense.

It’s nearly 400 years into the future at our point right now so who knows what advances had happened in that time

[Coombs]

Highlander. Sound effects, swords fitting in trench coats, that they made sequels.

[Deficineiron]

Highlander. Sound effects, swords fitting in trench coats, that they made sequels.

kurgen's 3-piece sword was 'cool' but terribly impractical. Can only assume it would fly apart the first good wack against a solid piece of steel it got.

and you sound like you maybe haven't paid your dues for the Friends of the Planet Zeist club.

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Does everyone who wants one get a vineyard also? Where does Picard get all the materials required to make wine? Are there some people who just wanted to make fertilizer, and they give it to him just because?

The whole 'no money' and 'people do what they enjoy' just doesn't make any sense.

This really started under Berman - Roddenberry's original series just sort-of dodged the issue of pay, economics, etc. - audiences would have been badly turned off by any of the later babble. Heck, there was even a genuine trader, Harcourt Fenton Mudd.

[segara82]

Star Trek economies for humans is rather simple:
Big bad war nearly wipes out humanity, they are down in the dumps, literaly.
Through luck/destiny/timetravel ... the Vulcans find the humans and initiate contact.
They help the humans with new technologies, medicines and the fucking aspect of KEEPING YOUR EMOTIONS IN CECK!
That includes greed.
With 'free' energy, advanced robots and AIs (and later even replicators) to do most of the work humans no longer struggle to live.
Living space seems rather cheap too, as is food, amassing riches is frowned upon ... so why do anything?
Because you want to.


Currency is however an issue when it comes to trading with other cultures and spezies. Somehow gold-pressed latinum has become the standard currency, regular gold is worthless (according to Quark).

As for H.F.Mudd ... he's more con-man than trader. Both in the original show, the animated one or even now Discovery.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Star Trek economies for humans is rather simple:
Big bad war nearly wipes out humanity, they are down in the dumps, literaly.
Through luck/destiny/timetravel ... the Vulcans find the humans and initiate contact.
They help the humans with new technologies, medicines and the fucking aspect of KEEPING YOUR EMOTIONS IN CECK!
That includes greed.
With 'free' energy, advanced robots and AIs (and later even replicators) to do most of the work humans no longer struggle to live.
Living space seems rather cheap too, as is food, amassing riches is frowned upon ... so why do anything?
Because you want to.


Currency is however an issue when it comes to trading with other cultures and spezies. Somehow gold-pressed latinum has become the standard currency, regular gold is worthless (according to Quark).

As for H.F.Mudd ... he's more con-man than trader. Both in the original show, the animated one or even now Discovery.

I've always found the concept of utopias (and by extension, dystopias) quite interesting. In order to have a society where everybody is happy, everyone's needs and desires must be satiated. For needs, that means providing adequate food and shelter, medical care as needed, as well as protecting them from thieves, serial killers, mafias, extremist groups, and other nations. Governments are overthrown when they can't meet their people's needs. The Federation is more than capable of this, having access to the technologies you have just stated. However, what about people desires? You can have society where everybody's needs are ostensibly met, but there could still be violent conflict. What if someone wants all Grazerites to be expelled from the Federation, or to at least be banned from setting foot on a human world? Extremist groups would arise to make this dream a reality, and there wouldn't be peace within the Federation. What if someone wants to build their dream home by a very specific waterfall, but that land has already been taken? Again, conflict.

The utopias I see usually take care of people's needs, but leave no answer for how people's desires are met, leading to violent conflicts arising anyways. Dystopias tend to take care of people's desires (indoctrinating and brainwashing them to not anything that the regime doesn't want and cannot satisfy), but their needs are often ignored, leading to people overthrowing the government or the nation collapsing altogether because of its unstable infrastructure. The only time I've seen both be satisfied is in Brave New World's World State, which is simultaneously an utopia in that everybody is happy and their needs met, and a dystopia in that to prevent conflict, people's minds have dumbed down and indoctrinated so as to remove their individuality, and therefore prevent conflicting ideas from arising. With the high technology citizens of the Federation have access to, I'd imagine that there'd be even more conflict within the Federation, simply because people have far, far too much time on their hands are nothing more important to do. You don't need to work for a living, because you can just replicate a house, furniture, and food and laze around looking at the internet all day.

[segara82]

A world like Star Treks Earth can only work when all/most people realise the limits. Limits of ressources, (livable) space, themselves ... and curb their ambitions and, most important, defeat greed. They have to give up on the concept of ownership, for amassing and hoarding material goods and money is what causes so many problems nowadays.
And in the Star Trek Universe it took a world war that nearly eradicated human kind and a century of Vulcan supervision to achieve such a state.

IMO we in reality will be tested in the upcoming decaded when AI and robots will become so cheap and widespread that mass-unemployment will hit us. Depending on whos study you trust we could be at 30% unemployment by 2030-2035. Currently i'm looking for new jobs to transfer to/train for, and not many will NOT be hit by the incoming modernization.