BFA My Thoughts Overall - Long Read

[HordeFanboy]

It was? I wasn't aware there was some law decreeing "expansions must have at least 3 raid tiers to be considered long enough". That whole "it would cost us a raid tier" meme needs to be scorched with a flamethrower.

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So you consider Legion to be WoD 2.0? I knew you had no credibility but this just proves it. Why don't you go get banned like Scarecrowz if you hate the game so much and wait for your precious classic that will be just different enough from your memories of vanilla that you'll hate it.

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You are my new best friend. =-)

OT My biggest concern will be, as always, is if any of my guildmates get hijacked onto the WoW is dying bandwagon and disappear cause they heard everyone else is quitting.

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Complaining about collecting things in an RPG. Boy are you playing the wrong genre.

Its impossible to hate the perfect game

[cparle87]

It's quite ironic that a man that appreciates community and socializing so much, is pushing everyone away by acting like he does. I bet you that 50% of all the Vanilla-extremists only want to go back to being a kid again as most were during that time. It was also right before the economic disaster in the US and most of Europe after the big banks imploded, maybe they lost a privileged lifestyle because of that.

The sad part is, he logs online in this new Classic version, levels a bit and starts to feel the struggles, why does it take 20 boars to find x quest item? Why am i leveling so incredibly slow? And where is my friends and that amazing community. Well, welcome to 2018, where you dont talk to strangers online. And welcome to reality, life has moved on.

Oh yeah. I hadn't thought of that. 2018. It's a lot harder to just start chatting with some random guy than it was in 2004.

[OreoLover]

I really wonder how long these will last. Unless they have some crazy randomization and procedural generation, with maybe some M+ mutators thrown in, seems like they'll get boring REALLY fast, and just become another boring weekly task for AP.

"Unlike a lot of the spawning in WoW, nothing in Islands is static ... We have these hundreds of locations all across the landscape, and tons of different things can show up there, ensuring that it's a completely different adventure every time that you go there."

"So while you're on this expedition, you're going to be looking for sources of Azerite, but then an event's going to occur." "Suddenly you have to make a decision about whether or not you're gonna run back and grab the Azerite, or do you keep running the direction you are?"

"We have this wide variety of different abilities to give the AI, tactical knowledge of the island, and that means that they're also very unpredictable. You're never quite sure which group you're gonna be facing off against, and what tactic they're gonna take to try to win today."

(Forgot the source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XojQnSMkq-k)

+ PVP difficulty + Elites encouraging tactics/consumables...

Seems like plenty to keep them interesting, compared to Heroic Dungeons for instance.

[cparle87]

Its impossible to hate the perfect game

It's not just rose-tinted glasses. You've replaced your eyes and optic nerves with red glass. =-)

Offtopic, is the guy in your avatar laughing, just had something incredibly loud through his earpiece, or having a siezure? I've never been able to tell.

[Krille]

Oh yeah. I hadn't thought of that. 2018. It's a lot harder to just start chatting with some random guy than it was in 2004.

People have their own community by now, there are so many ways to create one outside of the game and most people have played this game at least once. There's simply no need to ask a stranger for direction anymore and most of your community is on Discord or similar applications. Back in 2004 people were still bad at using the internet and the need for guidance was a lot higher. I just think there will be a rude awakening for all the Vanilla extremists and little room for the "non-believers" that still would want to try the game. We've seen how extremely toxic they're against "retail-players".

[cparle87]

People have their own community by now, there are so many ways to create one outside of the game and most people have played this game at least once. There's simply no need to ask a stranger for direction anymore and most of your community is on Discord or similar applications. Back in 2004 people were still bad at using the internet and the need for guidance was a lot higher. I just think there will be a rude awakening for all the Vanilla extremists and little room for the "non-believers" that still would want to try the game. We've seen how extremely toxic they're against "retail-players".

Yeah. My friend list is comprised mostly of people I met in vanilla through Wrath who play, those I met in the same timeframe who don't anymore, and a tiny tiny fraction of people I've met since then that I met while playing, liked what they did, and run stuff with now and then. But I don't chat with them or socialize just for the sake of it with those people like I do with my oldies. If that makes any sense.

[SirCowdog]

This might be the wrong place to ask, but can I be attacked by the horde when I turn off warmode on a PvP server? Everyone says PvP servers will turn into PvE servers with warmode turned off. But is this true? This would be nice (for me) because I dislike PvP nowadays, I use my spare time to gear up or WQ (ain't nobody got time for this) and don't want to fight the horde. I have way too many chars to just "transfer to PvE". Well I could but I dont want to send that much money :O

There are no more PVP servers.

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"Unlike a lot of the spawning in WoW, nothing in Islands is static ... We have these hundreds of locations all across the landscape, and tons of different things can show up there, ensuring that it's a completely different adventure every time that you go there."

"So while you're on this expedition, you're going to be looking for sources of Azerite, but then an event's going to occur." "Suddenly you have to make a decision about whether or not you're gonna run back and grab the Azerite, or do you keep running the direction you are?"

"We have this wide variety of different abilities to give the AI, tactical knowledge of the island, and that means that they're also very unpredictable. You're never quite sure which group you're gonna be facing off against, and what tactic they're gonna take to try to win today."

Seems like plenty to keep them interesting, compared to Heroic Dungeons for instance.

No offense, but that sounds suspiciously like the language they used when talking about the introduction of world quests. "Hundreds of different WQs that randomize" IIRC. And we all know how that went..... :/

I'll remain skeptical until proven otherwise.

[Krille]

Yeah. My friend list is comprised mostly of people I met in vanilla through Wrath who play, those I met in the same timeframe who don't anymore, and a tiny tiny fraction of people I've met since then that I met while playing, liked what they did, and run stuff with now and then. But I don't chat with them or socialize just for the sake of it with those people like I do with my oldies. If that makes any sense.

I mean you can still socialize in the game now, and meet new friends. But it's mostly tied into guilds. You wont find friends by being an ass to everyone you meet. And i dare to say i think a big chunk of the players going into Classic realms will do so with their guild and keep playing with eachother in the same bubble as they have in retail wow. So yea, i don't know man. I almost feel sorry for the people who think it's possible to recreate the sense of community they felt back in 2004-05.

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There are no more PVP servers.

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No offense, but that sounds suspiciously like the language they used when talking about the introduction of world quests. "Hundreds of different WQs that randomize" IIRC. And we all know how that went..... :/

I'll remain skeptical until proven otherwise.

Except the fact that WQs are literally copies of old quests. I have no recollection of them telling us that WQs would be randomized stuff to do. I'm not completely sold on Islands yet, but i do appreciate the role agnostic 3 party-sized content. It fills a hole in WoW content and serves a purpose.

[Darkarath]

Thank you for the analysis. I am looking forward to BfA. I think that it will be better than Legion and I cannot wait to play it ^^

[OreoLover]

You are my new best friend. =-)

Hey, thanks for that sentiment! Haha

No offense, but that sounds suspiciously like the language they used when talking about the introduction of world quests. "Hundreds of different WQs that randomize" IIRC. And we all know how that went..... :/

I'll remain skeptical until proven otherwise.

A perfect stance to take, IMO.

I think the layer of group play and conflict should keep them entertaining beyond world quests. When I play on PVP servers or do PVP world quests last minute, the entertainment is usually present. Similar to when I do world quests which require or benefit from groups.

I did enjoy the day-to-day variety for world quests, though I didn't feel rewarded enough via my character or personal entertainment to stay playing through all of Legion. Hoping the islands are more rewarding in at least one of those ways, but particularly in entertainment.

I'd be happy if they did some wild things with them, like their Brawl events (Battlegrounds, Arena, Overwatch, Hearthstone), threw in affixes, or even buffed the players in interesting ways to deal with interesting opponents (I assume they'll be tucked away in island consumables).

[SirCowdog]

Except the fact that WQs are literally copies of old quests. I have no recollection of them telling us that WQs would be randomized stuff to do. I'm not completely sold on Islands yet, but i do appreciate the role agnostic 3 party-sized content. It fills a hole in WoW content and serves a purpose.

I tend to agree. I was a fan of Scenarios, but they got old pretty quick due to the repetitive nature. The real question about Islands is how well they hold up to that kind of repetition. Blizzard is fond of claiming things to generate hype, but then moving the goalposts and spinning that what they said wasn't REALLY what they said.

Which is why I'm not going to get too hyped about Islands until I actually see how "random" they really are.

[Corroc]

It was? I wasn't aware there was some law decreeing "expansions must have at least 3 raid tiers to be considered long enough". That whole "it would cost us a raid tier" meme needs to be scorched with a flamethrower.

Its called logic. If expansion has only 2 raid tiers and still lasts as long as expansion that has 3 it will run out of content. People are blaming garrisons for a lack of content because they think blizzard intented garrisons to be the content while missing the fact it was missing raid tier. This was even admitted by blizzard that it only had 2 tiers because of the schedule problems they had with wod.

I know alot of people keep saying blizzard never admits their mistakes but they actually admitted the mistakes that were made with wod.

[SirCowdog]

I did enjoy the day-to-day variety for world quests, though I didn't feel rewarded enough via my character or personal entertainment to stay playing through all of Legion. Hoping the islands are more rewarding in at least one of those ways, but particularly in entertainment.

I'd be happy if they did some wild things with them, like their Brawl events (Battlegrounds, Arena, Overwatch, Hearthstone), threw in affixes, or even buffed the players in interesting ways to deal with interesting opponents (I assume they'll be tucked away in island consumables).

I think there's a lot they COULD do with Islands. But then again, there's a lot Blizzard COULD do in other areas of the game as well, but haven't.

And I think you brought up a good point about the rewards. There's some variation they could do there by mixing in the M+ style mutators, and scaling up rewards for more difficult Islands. I also hope they scale rewards based on how well you do, and don't just make it an Azerite grind. I think there's a lot of potential there between choosing an easier difficulty to play it safe and really knock the performance out of the park, or going with a higher difficulty for potentially higher rewards, but with more risk.

There's a lot of ways Islands could play out. Like I said, I just REALLY hope it doesn't turn into just one more boring daily/weekly task.

[cparle87]

Its called logic. If expansion has only 2 raid tiers and still lasts as long as expansion that has 3 it will run out of content. People are blaming garrisons for a lack of content because they think blizzard intented garrisons to be the content while missing the fact it was missing raid tier. This was even admitted by blizzard that it only had 2 tiers because of the schedule problems they had with wod.

I know alot of people keep saying blizzard never admits their mistakes but they actually admitted the mistakes that were made with wod.

After we downed Blackhand my expectation was that we went to Tanaan to finish off Grommash and the Iron Horde. Then Gul'dan makes his move, capturing/corrupting Grommash and the Iron Horde remnants and revealing that under the Shattrath dome was an even bigger Dark Portal connected directly to a Legion-held world. No more playing around. Direct funnel. And we'd have a demon-filled Shattrath for the third raid tier.

[Deleted]

Not really sure I am happy with WQ and Azerite grind. It's definitely a content illusion. A way to keep players in without actual content. U get to do the same content again and again without actually getting new story or new areas to explore. And it is a problem when this gives the development team the excuse of creating an expansion with few maps and stories. I understand an expansion cannot deliver a world as big as vanilla but we witness a delivery or expansions that are ever-smaller and that's a concern

[Soluna]

Its impossible to hate the perfect game

I laugh so hard everytime I see ppl with your signature. It's such a sad thing to have as a sig that it makes me burst out in laughter!
OT: Good post Towellie, finally someone who doesnt just bash, but also appreciates the work they are doing!

[Armourboy]

BFA looks to be an expansion where the content is probably going to be fairly solid considering they are the same systems from Legion. The problem comes in with some of the rewards and just how tolerable it will be to do the same stuff over and over again just like with Legion.

The biggest issue are certain specs and the fact they just arent a ton of fun to play. Most of the ones that got some work seem to be pretty solid, it's some that didn't where the problems lye.

I'm also a bit concerned that this azerite system actually ends up feeling more constricted than the old tier sets even though it uses fewer slots. Having 3 slots on lock down like it is, with upgrades eventually mainly coming from raids and the mythic weekly chest could get get pretty old if you have some bad luck.

We will see how it goes. I'm not super excited about it, but that doesn't mean it can't be decent.

[OreoLover]

And I think you brought up a good point about the rewards. There's some variation they could do there by mixing in the M+ style mutators, and scaling up rewards for more difficult Islands. I also hope they scale rewards based on how well you do, and don't just make it an Azerite grind. I think there's a lot of potential there between choosing an easier difficulty to play it safe and really knock the performance out of the park, or going with a higher difficulty for potentially higher rewards, but with more risk.

I would love the rewards to grow for impressive victories, and be baseline better for more difficult struggles. With the "pick your approach" style to some of it, I hope some rewards are tied to the approach you take, and not just speed. Personally, I'm imagining paths which reward significant gold, collectibles, cosmetic/transmog items, currency, reputation, gear/power.

Pirate chest > Loads of gold and Seafarer's Dubloon / Curious Coins / reroll tokens

Puzzles/secrets/quests/bosses > Toys/mounts/pets

Exploring/bosses/looting > Themed cosmetic/transmog/consumable

Shutting down a PVP team/AI > PVP rewards, currency, reputation

Lucky vendor/enemy present > Buy/kill for rares, resellables, BoEs...

[SirCowdog]

Lucky vendor/enemy present > Buy/kill for rares, resellables, BoEs...

I think a lot of those idea have merit. But as cool as I think putting a DOTA2/LoL "secret shop" vendor in random islands would make a lot of people angry. We've already got all the complaints about how badly the RNG implementation of acquiring Legendaries was in Legion. No need to repeat that mistake with islands. It would need to be a pretty common event on an island, but even then it would cause issues where people only joined a match just to get access to the vendor, then bail/disconnect once they were done shopping.

[Arbs]

Good post my dude.