Warbringers - Jaina

[Doffen]

Or just go watch it 10 more times anyway because it's really good, or as many times as it takes for them to learn how amazing the music is.

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Well, I don't think it's illusion, per se. Illusion is external, something you think you perceive with your actual senses. This isn't that; it's happening largely within her head, like a fugue state. That's why I say N'Zoth.

I know you quoted the wrong poster in this last one, but she is going through all the fog and stuff, actually raising the ship and all that. Just the ghost-thing etc is illusions, a way to make the viewer understand that she is "talking" to her father(though she is obviously thinking the whole thing, as in thinking what she says, not thinking the whole event)you see Garrosh and so on as well, all comic illusions for the viewers sake.

[macclearich]

I don't think it was N'zoth fucking with her. I think it really happened the way we're shown it.

Hey, I'm not gonna dump all over your interpretation. There is every chance that you're exactly right. I just tend to prefer the theory where Jaina's having a breakdown and the Old Gods are using that fact to weaponize her against Sylvanas. I think it explains the soaring symbolism and that Kul Tiran dis track of a song better. It's basically Fight Club, but in Azeroth.

[Steampunkette]

Hey, I'm not gonna dump all over your interpretation. There is every chance that you're exactly right. I just tend to prefer the theory where Jaina's having a breakdown and the Old Gods are using that fact to weaponize her against Sylvanas. I think it explains the soaring symbolism and that Kul Tiran dis track of a song better. It's basically Fight Club, but in Azeroth.

I get that it could be! I just -really- like the idea that Jaina isn't messing with the Void... but with Necromancy. That she'll head down that path seeking to destroy Sylvanas and the Horde only to ultimately unmake herself. To become the villain that her father was, that Arthas was...

Plus an Alliance with Thros would be fucking COOL. The Kul'tirans getting the Drust on their side against the Horde?

Hnnnngh!

[Magnagarde]

I've read quite a few posts in which people keep repeating that Daelin didn't go to Kalimdor to save her. He actually did sail to Kalimdor to find her. When he first arrives in Theramore in W3, he tells her how he despaired after he heard what happened in Lordaeron and thanks the stars or something for finally finding her. This is when his speech is abruptly interrupted after he realizes there's an ogre-like humanoid standing near her.

Daelin didn't go to Kalimdor to fight the Horde. Finding the Horde in Kalimdor was a byproduct of his search for Jaina.

[Motso]

beep boop GENOCIDE.

I do not think this word means what you think it means

[Aurabolt]

Are you saying that the Horde troops who were present at the Broken Shore don't really know whether they betrayed the Alliance or not?

Are you seriously asking that?

Back in Orgrimmar after the Broken Shore when Vol'Jin summons the player character and Sylvanas, you will overhear this exchange:

Lor'themar Theron says: Warchief! The <class> you called for has arrived. We only await Sylvanas now.
Vol'jin says: Ah, <name>, it's... good ya came. Time be... runnin' short.
Baine Bloodhoof says: Let me call in my healers, Warchief. Your wound must be tended!
Vol'jin says: Too late for dat, Bloodhoof. Me got one... final duty. Ta see dat da Horde... stays strong.
Lor'themar Theron says: The Alliance lost its king on the Broken Shore. Its people cry out for vengeance.
Ji Firepaw says: We need them focused on defeating the Legion, not fostering old hatreds.
Archmage Aethas Sunreaver says: My contact in the Kirin Tor tells me certain members of the Council of Six are open to inviting the Horde back into Dalaran.Vol'jin says: Dat's good. Azeroth... gonna fall... 'less we seal up dat tomb.
Trade Prince Gallywix says: Blasted demons! Such wanton destruction... there's no profit in it!
Baine Bloodhoof says: We WILL find a way to drive back the Legion, Warchief. This we swear!
Sylvanas walks into the room.
Lor'themar Theron says: The Banshee Queen is here, Vol'jin. What is it you wanted to tell us?

Lor'themar and Ji both make it clear the Alliance wants vengeance not just against the Legion but the Horde, too. So, no the Horde did not know until after the fact that the Alliance saw their unexplained retreat as an act of betrayal.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

I hope Sylvanas redoes the Lament of the Highborne if Patty does sing.

[Eradicator3]

Sylvanas enslaving Eyir wouldn't have kept Odyn trapped in the Halls of Valor forever. Particularly since he's the one enslaving her as it is. In no way, shape, or form was the Horde "Technically helping the Legion"

And the Goblins in Silithus are civilian laborers, so targeting and killing them -is- an act of aggression: It's a War Crime.

They're Laborers, not Soldiers. And even if they're employed by the military (Which they ain't) Civilian Contractors in Afghanistan are still civilians. Expressly targeting them to kill them and steal them is still a war crime.

Silithus is a contested territory so any conflict there can't begin a war while the Horde is attacking Darkshore which is alliance territory

[Aucald]

Are you saying that the Horde troops who were present at the Broken Shore don't really know whether they betrayed the Alliance or not?

No, I'm saying the Alliance troops who were present at the Broken don't really know whether or not the Horde betrayed them. Similarly, the Horde had no idea of the plight of the Alliance on the killing plain below their position - neither side could see the other's condition from their particular vantage on the battlefield. So, neither side knows the full story of the Broken Shore, except the players and the Legion themselves.

[s3ge]

Are you seriously asking that?

Back in Orgrimmar after the Broken Shore when Vol'Jin summons the player character and Sylvanas, you will overhear this exchange:





Lor'themar and Ji both make it clear the Alliance wants vengeance not just against the Legion but the Horde, too. So, no the Horde did not know until after the fact that the Alliance saw their unexplained retreat as an act of betrayal.

What are you even trying to say.

The wrong assumptions made by the Alliance and their tendency to hold onto these assumptions is exactly what I was pointing out when Aucald claimed that "no one is entirely sure what happened at the Broken Shore", which might be true for the battle itself and several events leading up to it, but certainly not for the alleged betrayal.

[Darklok]

Sylvanas enslaving Eyir wouldn't have kept Odyn trapped in the Halls of Valor forever. Particularly since he's the one enslaving her as it is. In no way, shape, or form was the Horde "Technically helping the Legion"

And the Goblins in Silithus are civilian laborers, so targeting and killing them -is- an act of aggression: It's a War Crime.

They're Laborers, not Soldiers. And even if they're employed by the military (Which they ain't) Civilian Contractors in Afghanistan are still civilians. Expressly targeting them to kill them and steal them is still a war crime.

Civilian workers who first attacked by murdering an entire Explorer's League camp of the Alliance is not an act of aggression? Good logic.

[Ausr]

Damn Jaina. She's gonna go full ham on the Horde this xpac, it's gonna be beautiful.

Also Laura Bailey has a nice singing voice? Is there anything that girl can't do?

Laura's sang before. Course, I know these are over a song with another partner.

[Corroc]

Shanties aren't really meant to be harmonious. They are laborer songs and being off-key is expected

I believe you if you can find me an example where the song is as much off key and badly composed as that. If you are making short animations there is no reason to make the song sound more off key than they usually are. Harmony of those kind of songs come from the singers not singing too loudly so their voice is not heard over the others. Laborer songs actually sound pretty nice because of the harmony in the song where you dont need a certain kind of pitch, the whole song is based on the group making the sound.

[Jastall]

This is why I also like the fact that this explores the landing of Kul Tiran forces on Kalimdor's shores from the perspective of the Kul Tiran people themselves. Daelin had no reason to think better of the Horde and saw his actions as striking justice/saving his people and family from more tragedy. While he was very wrong in his assessment, his experiences allowed him to see no better.

I always considered him as one of the more tragic Alliance characters; died fighting for what he thought was right because life didn't give him enough reason to think better. He sailed across half the world to find his daughter and found her in a land mostly controlled by those who once killed his son and people. There was no way he'd think well of the Horde.

It's kind of mitigated by the fact that Thrall (repeatedly, I recall) told him to knock it off because he not that kind of Orc to which old Proudmoore didn't listen, not that one expects him to since he brushed off his own daughter as well. So while there's an air of tragedy for sure, he was probably even more radical and single-minded in his pursuits than Genn so it's kind of hard for me to feel much sympathy for him.

[huehuehue]

was that implied to be her father's ship?

[Traveler Voltin]

was that implied to be her father's ship?

yes. from what i understand

[Daevelian]

Well, that was definitely not what i expected, but still pretty damn good. Paints her in a darker, and to the horde, more antagonistic light for sure, though not quite villain territory yet.

The bar has been set pretty high, can the other Warbringer episodes match this?

Edit:

Yeah I guess it is only genocide when all of the race is dead. Killing everyone in a town is not genocide. All those people that died in Astranaar were trash and not qualified enough so the incident to be called genocide. Then it seems that Rohingya was also not a genocide. They were only a few villagers and not qualified ... Sylvanas fans are all the same. As I said it is stupid that you cannot put the moderator in the ignore list. I tried to ignore every Sylvanas fan but it seems I failed on that one. But on the other hand it is hard for a Sylvanas fan to understsand what genocide means when she brings people back from the dead.

You're complaining about a moderator with a history of Sylvanas bias on a forum that has a reputation for Sylvanas fans constantly flaming others followed by infractions against anyone who dares to flame back.

Careful lad, yer playin' with fire there.

Infracted.

[Combatbutler]

That definitely seemed to paint Jaina in a villain model - pursuing reckless vengeance, twisting the past to suit her view of it, and embracing the way Kul Tiras views her for some nebulous "greater good." I'm wondering if this is before, during, or after her time in Thros?

She gets the ship she crashes into undercity during the cinematic. I always wondered where she got that ship considering she was a persona non grata in her homeland.

[Ragnarocket]

Well, that was definitely not what i expected, but still pretty damn good. Paints her in a darker, and to the horde, more antagonistic light for sure, though not quite villain territory yet.

Definitely expected some angry Jaina here in "Warbringers" but I liked this a lot more than just some angry tirade about the Horde taking Theramore from her. This shows she's got a lot of anger right now...not just at the Horde but towards herself. She's gonna have to find a way to...oh dang it I guess I have to phrase it this way...let it go.

That look at the end was not a look I'd want in my direction. The Horde are in for a chilly encounter.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Some impressive victim complexes going on, better places to spin eachother up on it though, like PM's.