Personal loot and gearing up your raid

[kooz]

Mythic raiders are not going to forget that they used to be able to assign loot properly when every week you're going to have loot dropping that is going in the wrong place and can't be traded, and any item that DOES drop and can be traded requires a huge hassle of trading it around post-kill, slowing down the raid instead of having the master looter sort it out while the rest of the raid gets on with the next trash pack.

The only people who will forget about master looter are the kind of people who never needed it in the first place, and aren't the people who are asking for it to remain - ie; mythic raiders. No one is asking for ML to be global, but making it not function in mythic raids is almost as idiotic as your claims it will be forgotten or that only toxic guilds will care.

You have no idea what you're talking about, I don't understand why you post about the topic when you're completely unaffected.

You are mixing up real mythic raiders that race for world/server firsts , maybe top 50-100 guilds (these guys don't really bitch about the change, mostly they do not care) and wannabe "mythic raiders" as they call themselves, often featured with corrupt/egocentric leadership, yes they can still do some mythic content, they can even give out loot nobody else needs to trials (but of course never tf or bis trinkets). And they keep recruiting them because of toxicity, members abuse, poor planning or 100 other reasons. You might say it's not about your guild, ok, but there's plenty of those and now the issue has been addressed.

[munkeyinorbit]

Yeah doing what it takes to actually kill bosses is "toxic."

If it wasn't toxic then Blizzard would never have implemented personal loot. Acting like assholes and shitting on people isn't a good enough reason to kill bosses. People like to pretend that split runs are the main reason why ml was abandoned. It is clear from the many threads on pl that it is the toxicity of the players that forced this change.

[MrMatticus]

Personal loot is fine, but people will bitch and whine about anything.

[niil945]

WHAT? how is this the same logic? what are you even talking about?

I never told ANYONE to leave the game.

That's not what I said.

"if you didn't agree with the way the ML was done by your guild then you're free to find another guild" ... "if you don't agree with the way loot has been changed in the game then you're free to find another game"

news flash, most mythic guilds dont abuse ML (and by most I mean 99%) because it's not in their best interest, it's simple logic really.

News flash, this is a small part of the discussion, not the main reason. We know the main reason. It's to make it more tedious/time consuming for guilds to split raid/funnel loot to specific characters. Blizzard isn't changing loot for everyone. They're changing loot in a targeted way that minimizes mythic guilds optimization of loot distribution that allows them to gear far faster than they should. Does it also change ML exploitation? Yes. Are people who have been exploited going to happy that it's going away? Yes. Does it matter in the slightest in the discussion? Not really.

[shaunika123]

That's not what I said.

"if you didn't agree with the way the ML was done by your guild then you're free to find another guild" ... "if you don't agree with the way loot has been changed in the game then you're free to find another game"

.

except it's not the same.
because one is saving yourself from abuse and keep playing the game in a better way than before

and the other is completely abandoning the game you love, instead of trying to help fix it.

[xuros]

I'm not worried bout it. My guild has cutting across all raids in Legion along with getting all raid team members mounts and selling mounts. We did this by doing personal loot for everything (cept sale runs) and it worked out fine.

[shaunika123]

I'm not worried bout it. My guild has cutting across all raids in Legion along with getting all raid team members mounts and selling mounts. We did this by doing personal loot for everything (cept sale runs) and it worked out fine.

so the change has zero impact on you, therefore there's no point in you arguing for or against it? thanks for your contribution.

nobody has a problem with you liking personal loot, it's a great system for certain things.

we just want choice back.

[niil945]

except it's not the same.
because one is saving yourself from abuse and keep playing the game in a better way than before

and the other is completely abandoning the game you love, instead of trying to help fix it.

That's all in how you spin it. Even if I give you that they're different applications (they're not) both of them are garbage logic. I could easily take the second narrative (trying to help fix it!) and apply it to the situation wherein we get the devs to eliminate ML to fix the problem instead of quitting (leaving a guild I love). Both of them are just variations of the "don't like it, leave!" line of thinking applied at different levels. But somehow, magically, it's perfectly fine for you to use it on other people but it's not fine for people to use it with you. lol

[shaunika123]

That's all in how you spin it. Even if I give you that they're different applications (they're not) both of them are garbage logic. I could easily take the second narrative (trying to help fix it!) and apply it to the situation wherein we get the devs to eliminate ML to fix the problem instead of quitting (leaving a guild I love).

it doesnt fix the problem though
at best it mitigates it

there's still gonna be instances of forcing people to trade loot.
probably less often sure, but it'll still create the same toxic environment

you cant change people.

and if you love the guild, then it's not abusing you.
unless it's some seriously messed up stockholm syndrome shit you're in.

if you truly want to fix the problem of people being shitty to each other.
then make wow a single player game.
bam solved.

otherwise it's a futile effort.

[niil945]

it doesnt fix the problem though
at best it mitigates it

Nonsubstantive. Care to clarify?

there's still gonna be instances of forcing people to trade loot.
probably less often sure, but it'll still create the same toxic environment

It doesn't create a toxic environment. It's already toxic. What it does do is prevent situations where people wouldn't get loot and now they will. And they will be completely unable to trade it whether other people want them to or not.

you cant change people.

Correct. That's why you regulate and pass laws, exactly like how Blizzard is changing the system to minimize shitty behavior (gaming the loot distribution system by split raiding/loot funneling and, consequently, the exploitation of people in ML systems)

and if you love the guild, then it's not abusing you.
unless it's some seriously messed up stockholm syndrome shit you're in.

Ahaha, that describes Mythic raiding in a nutshell.

if you truly want to fix the problem of people being shitty to each other.
then make wow a single player game.
bam solved.

otherwise it's a futile effort.

lol, yeah because we can just completely fubar the game instead of just making it more difficult/tedious for people to be douchebags to each other. Oi that's idiotic.

[kooz]

I do not really see a valid situation that could veritably FORCE people to trade loot now. Even as an exception, it is unlikely to become a widespread practice.

[niil945]

I do not really see a valid situation that could veritably FORCE people to trade loot now. Even as an exception, it is unlikely to become a widespread practice.

I tend to agree. The process of finding out which pieces of gear are tradable, which people want to trade them, trading them to a person acting as ML, and then actually managing the trade of said pieces is going to deter the vast majority of people from manually managing loot distribution. They might use the PL mod that I've seen people talking about to do that or we'll see something else developed. Even still, the fact that people can get loot that can't be traded changes the dynamic a lot regardless of whether people go out of their way to micromanage the pieces that can be traded.

[Nefarious Tea]

I mean, if your guild cares enough about efficient loot distribution to fight with trading to get PL loot to the best person... your raiders should have already had to submit BiS lists by the time Uldir opens, that way it's a five second cross reference with attendance/performance/attitude to see who gets what items.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

So now that ML is gone what you're saying is you're free to find another game that has it? Bye!

...no? I'm happy that all loot is personal now because it effectively kills split runs for gear boosting.
I said that Master Looter is a system that gives freedom to the ones that control looting, that's usually raid leaders or guild masters. If your raid leader or guild master is unfair then that's not a fault to the Master Looter system but a fault in the guys controling it in your guild.

[shaunika123]

...no? I'm happy that all loot is personal now because it effectively kills split runs for gear boosting.
I said that Master Looter is a system that gives freedom to the ones that control looting, that's usually raid leaders or guild masters. If your raid leader or guild master is unfair then that's not a fault to the Master Looter system but a fault in the guys controling it in your guild.

oh you sweet summer child....

[Volitar]

Will still be able to pseudo master loot items of the same ilevel which is what my guild is doing so we are going to just use a more annoying version of masterloot with more steps. Oh and mounts going to random people is dumb as fuck but Blizzard is a carebare company so now that masterloot is gone nobodies feelings ever need to get hurt again.

[niil945]

oh you sweet summer child....

There's an odd random third perspective out of the blue that I think we're both shaking our heads at.

Granted, I've been on the other side of the fence so I know why people ML even if I'm happy to see it gone. But this position is kinda like a half assed attempt to min/max. Why even bother?

- - - Updated - - -

Will still be able to pseudo master loot items of the same ilevel which is what my guild is doing so we are going to just use a more annoying version of masterloot with more steps. Oh and mounts going to random people is dumb as fuck but Blizzard is a carebare company so now that masterloot is gone nobodies feelings ever need to get hurt again.

Just as a side note, the random mount thing was a bug that was fixed almost immediately. But you have fun with your more annoying version of ML with more steps.

[HavokHeart]

And loss of power, they will still bully with the new RC Council (btw, toxic 100% addon atm with looting check). But it's all for naught. New era in WoW is coming.

Will still be able to pseudo master loot items of the same ilevel which is what my guild is doing so we are going to just use a more annoying version of masterloot with more steps. Oh and mounts going to random people is dumb as fuck but Blizzard is a carebare company so now that masterloot is gone nobodies feelings ever need to get hurt again.

When something good drops just don't loot the boss let it come in the mail... easy way to make sure the RL doesn't make you give your loot to his girlfriends brother.

[Marrilaife]

You are mixing up real mythic raiders that race for world/server firsts , maybe top 50-100 guilds (these guys don't really bitch about the change, mostly they do not care) and wannabe "mythic raiders" as they call themselves, often featured with corrupt/egocentric leadership, yes they can still do some mythic content, they can even give out loot nobody else needs to trials (but of course never tf or bis trinkets). And they keep recruiting them because of toxicity, members abuse, poor planning or 100 other reasons. You might say it's not about your guild, ok, but there's plenty of those and now the issue has been addressed.

Let's imagine there's a guild who wants to give bis trinkets "in a corrupt manner".

With master looter: If the trinket drops, it's given to x predefined person. Trials won't get it, but can be slotted on the boss and hope to coin it. People who already have the trinket can sit out for the ones who want to coin it.

With personal loot: Trials get benched. People with the trinket already get slotted in, in hopes if the trinket drops for them they'll trade it to x predefined person. Well that's so much better for these poor trials!

[kaintk]

seriously i dont see any difference between waiting let say 5 week to have a loot from ML (its your turn, it drop finally, whatever)
or
the personnal loot that will give you your loot after 5-6 weeks or less or later, whatever

it the same kind of wait, its just a different way to have it

and i could even told you that personnal loot will have big rng, some will have bad luck and some willl be fully stuffed in a few weeks only lol, you know some peoples are just plain lucky