Teldrassil was just a stupid tree in the middle of the city.

[Deleted]

Wait... Before BfA, when were (this) Alliance and (this) Horde at war???

Warcraft 1?

[Aydinx2]

Teldrassil is the massive tree that the city of Darnassus is sitting upon.
By burning the tree she basicly committed genocide.

[Nessiae]

Ah so people are mad about the civilians who died and not actually the action of destroying the tree?
But this is war. No?

I keep seeing this terrible excuse "this is war", there was no war just so you know until this happened. Look at the world we just defeated the legion together, Sylvanas got her ultimate revenge.

[Moozart]

Hoo boy, here we go - with these amounts of threads, I think we'll soon need the "Teldrassil Megathread".

this is how Trump go into office.

[Kelathos]

It had 932 innocents on it. Did you miss that part?

That was just within city limits. There would have been more elsewhere on the tree.

[Aydinx2]

Wait... Before BfA, when were (this) Alliance and (this) Horde at war???

WC1, WC2, WC3, Vanilla, Burning Crusade, WotLK (until the end), Again during Cataclysm (Sylvanas invaded Gilneas), During MoP (Garrosh literally committed genocide on humans and we invaded orgrimmar), Legion (PvP world quests and also the entire reason class halls exist).

So basicly the entirety of WoW.

[Deleted]

Well I was referring to the Night Elf army at the Tree. So yes, the few battallions that were there. She conquered them, thus pretty much had the tree. There was no need to go the extra step of burning the tree down with the civilians still there.

Im all with you mate, I have never been mad at an Alliance / Horde leader before, but Gods above and below, I wanna cut Sylvanas thread and throw her dark soul into the great beyond...

First toon I rolled back in April 05, was an Nelf resto druid, Teldrassil and Darnassus, has and will always be my most beloved Zone / Capital in WoW.

Ps. ok, I was a bit pissed when Garrosh killed Cairne, but Garrosh's weapon was poisoned, so it wasnt really his fault...

[shaunika123]

Even in war, knowingly and intentionally targeting civilians is pretty universally condemned.

then again, by that logic if you put civilians in a good strategic point then noone ever can attack it anymore because then they're a meanyhead.

darnassus had civilians, sure. it's also the biggest alliance foothold in kalimdor.

not to say she's not a psycopathic evil bitch mind you. but that doesnt mean burning the tree wasnt a good startegic decision.

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Im all with you mate, I have never been mad at an Alliance / Horde leader before, but Gods above and below, I wanna cut Sylvanas thread and throw her dark soul into the great beyond...

First toon I rolled back in April 05, was an Nelf resto druid, Teldrassil and Darnassus, has and will always be my most beloved Zone / Capital in WoW.

Ps. ok, I was a bit pissed when Garrosh killed Cairne, but Garrosh's weapon was poisoned, so it wasnt really his fault...

what about when garrosh nuked a bunch of civilians in theramore?
and that wasnt even during a war.

[jellmoo]

WC1, WC2, WC3, Vanilla, Burning Crusade, WotLK (until the end), Again during Cataclysm (Sylvanas invaded Gilneas), During MoP (Garrosh literally committed genocide on humans and we invaded orgrimmar), Legion (PvP world quests and also the entire reason class halls exist).

So basicly the entirety of WoW.

Different Alliance and different Horde in WC1 and 2. They weren't at war in vanilla. Nor in BC. Debatable in WotLK since they both left Undercity without further conflict. The Horde was fractured in MoP with the Alliance helping retake Org. Legion, not at all.

There's a world of difference between conflict/skirmishes and all out war. We really haven't seen the two sides at war in game.

[Deleted]

then again, by that logic if you put civilians in a good strategic point then noone ever can attack it anymore because then they're a meanyhead.

darnassus had civilians, sure. it's also the biggest alliance foothold in kalimdor.

not to say she's not a psycopathic evil bitch mind you. but that doesnt mean burning the tree wasnt a good startegic decision.

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what about when garrosh nuked a bunch of civilians in theramore?
and that wasnt even during a war.

Garrosh had by that time, fucked so much up, I had stopped caring about him, but yeah, your right. Was a shitty thing to nuke Theramore , we got a nice tabard though or was it a banner?

[Thimagryn]

what about when garrosh nuked a bunch of civilians in theramore?
and that wasnt even during a war.

Bad writing for the purpose of making Garrosh an easily identifiable villain with no redeeming factors. Plot-wise, it was the most out-of-character decision that could be made. Why would an honour-bound Orc who even despised having his blade poisoned in a fight and chastising an Orc commander for bombing Stonetalon and calling Sylvanas out for using blight suddenly condone nuking Theramore? It's at that moment that they literally turned Garrosh into a one-dimensional power-hungry villain. Everything he did after that moment was dishonourable and poorly motivated, like the incident at the divine bell or hell, choosing to use the power of an old god....

Same can be said about Sylvanas' decision a this very moment. It introduces motivations that aren't in line with the character we are familiar with. From killing her own Forsaken in the novel to hinting at killing/betraying her sisters in the comic to the events at the Siege of Lordaeron and blighting her own troops... there's no real explanation why she's doing this.

There's only 2 outcomes I can really see here. Either she goes full blown crazy and turns into a full blown villain, Garrosh 2.0; or she is being all evil just to build up to a major redemption at the end that turns her into a misunderstood saviour; Kerrigan 2.0.

[Deleted]

You're getting it wrong...
The tree wasn't in the city. The city was in the tree.

he probably never been to the place other whise no one could get that wrong

[Deleted]

he probably never been to the place other whise no one could get that wrong

The city is in the middle of the tree.
The tree is in the middle of the city.

I've been failing at english pretty hard this couple days -___- sorry

[Mellrod]

What Horde civilian deaths are we talking about here then? As far as I am aware the only civilian deaths are the NE.

There were also worgen and a few other races living in the tree during the questline to evacuate them on Alliance's side.

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Hey, how many did you save? I got like 42-43, I could have done so much more... I could have gotten like 100, but there was always someone there saving people 1 second before me, those bastards!

I liked that Quest, felt a bit meaningful. Though no one would hire me as a fireman if that was a test!

I saw someone in trade chat bragging how they managed to save 800 out of the 982-ish civilians. If it's true then I have no idea how they managed that! Maybe we'll eventually see a video of someone speedrunning the quest on youtube. I would imagine it involves having the highest mount speed available + a lot of passive/active mount speed buffs. Also perhaps only evacuating large groups of people rather than singular targets.

[roahn the warlock]

They had a week of occupation of darkshore to evacuate and then their leader fled. I have no pity. Those deaths are on Tyrande's hands.

And as for the tree, it was a fake world tree anyway.

1) It wasn't a full week, that's just in game.

2) Tyrande was not in Darnassus, she was in Silithus. And only arrived last minute.

[shaunika123]

Bad writing for the purpose of making Garrosh an easily identifiable villain with no redeeming factors. Plot-wise, it was the most out-of-character decision that could be made. Why would an honour-bound Orc who even despised having his blade poisoned in a fight and chastising an Orc commander for bombing Stonetalon and calling Sylvanas out for using blight suddenly condone nuking Theramore? It's at that moment that they literally turned Garrosh into a one-dimensional power-hungry villain. Everything he did after that moment was dishonourable and poorly motivated, like the incident at the divine bell or hell, choosing to use the power of an old god....

Same can be said about Sylvanas' decision a this very moment. It introduces motivations that aren't in line with the character we are familiar with. From killing her own Forsaken in the novel to hinting at killing/betraying her sisters in the comic to the events at the Siege of Lordaeron and blighting her own troops... there's no real explanation why she's doing this.

There's only 2 outcomes I can really see here. Either she goes full blown crazy and turns into a full blown villain, Garrosh 2.0; or she is being all evil just to build up to a major redemption at the end that turns her into a misunderstood saviour; Kerrigan 2.0.

I honestly dont think Sylvanas's motivations are entirely out in the open at this point. and it's as simple as a "she just went nuts for the sake of writing" I think she has an endgame that doesnt allign with what the horde wants, but what she wants for herself and the forsaken. and while that might make her an antagonist, that doesnt necessarily make her 100% evil from every perspective.


I'M not even comfortable calling her 100% flat out evil.

[Miseration]

I just wish Saurfang didn't puss out and killed Malfurion, that useless druid.

[Valium104]

Even in war, knowingly and intentionally targeting civilians is pretty universally condemned.

Because some still cling to imaginary things like honor. In war, your goal is to decimate your enemy. Raze everything. Literally delete from history.

[Onikaroshi]

1) It wasn't a full week, that's just in game.

2) Tyrande was not in Darnassus, she was in Silithus. And only arrived last minute.

It was enough time to march an army north, that takes time, maybe not the full week, but days at least. And regardless of where she was, she should have went right to darnassus, not try to save her husband, it's against her character.

[Thimagryn]

I honestly dont think Sylvanas's motivations are entirely out in the open at this point. and it's as simple as a "she just went nuts for the sake of writing" I think she has an endgame that doesnt allign with what the horde wants, but what she wants for herself and the forsaken. and while that might make her an antagonist, that doesnt necessarily make her 100% evil from every perspective.


I'M not even comfortable calling her 100% flat out evil.

I agree with this assessment of Sylvanas. What really bugs me is how the Horde army (namely the ones acting under her) doesn't question any of her motivations and are doing exactly what caused the Garrosh incident all over again. I mean really, Saurfang is the only one who is against this? Are the rest of the leaders going to be complicit or just stand in the way and let Sylvanas get away with everything, JUST like the did for Garrosh?

If Azerite is really the cause for this, then it's the worst macguffin in Warcraft history.