"incomplete picture" Terran Gregory

[Easo]

I felt I had no reason to wait and see since the BfA announcement. I still do not see it.
They already cut down the crap Horde does in Beta (remember those nailed civilians with kids crying beneath them?), which, imho, just proves there is nothing to wait for.

[Friendlyimmolation]

saurfang makes clear what is the honorable way to fight when we attack Lor'danel
do not kill unarmed civilians

oh boy here we go down this rabbit hole.

You murder countless sentinels and it's ok because they are fighting back. Letting a few civilians run away is different than trying to occupy an entire city that hates you and will be doing everything it can to sabotage, kill, beat and tire you out. Civilians were going to die if the tree burned or not, that is what happens in real wars when a city is occupation. Saurfang can snort the honor dust, but this is the closest a war has ever been in WoW to being realistic, so he can shove his "honor" up his ass, because that's all it is, something to make him feel better even as he kills people.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

The only whole picture I can really see coming from this is for a major faction shake up. For starters, there's no way the Nightborne and the Tauren would stick around with this Horde any longer than necessary. Even justifying Horde Druids is now an incredible stretch regardless of where they were while the tree burned.

They've really written themselves in to a corner. Had Garrosh not happened, had Illidan not happened then they could have gone full Tyrant or redemption arc but it'd be shear lunacy to retread either route now and there's no way the Horde as we know it will endure once the dust settles even if Thrall were to return.

[Zaganite]

The only thing that really bothers me is that the Alliance won't see justice again. We didn't get to kill Garrosh (that went to Thrall) and NOTHING happened to Grom. I just don't see how they'll make the Alliance work with the Horde again. And for the love of! Can we stop listening to
SI:7! Their intel sucks! Twice now we got duped!

[Rhlor]

Being partly Armenian I am fairly knowledgeable in that slice of history yes.

It makes me sad to have to tell you this, but you do realize this is a game right, and is not bound to real history and therefore it's outcome is not guaranteed just because Sylvanas was mean to elves? "Genocide" doesn't mean you'll lose, if that was the case there would be no nations real or in literature/media.

she will lose because she did something that narratively speaking only has three endings for a fantasy story like this one where the good win and the bad lose.

1) we kill her
2) blizzard does something disgusting and stupid like wod and sylvanas shouts "azeroth is free" after we kill azshra
3) she becomes kerrigan 2.0 and kills nzoth to become a god-like being who can not live in the mortal world. (shit)

[Friendlyimmolation]

she will lose because she did something that narratively speaking only has three endings for a fantasy story like this one where the good win and the bad lose.

1) we kill her
2) blizzard does something disgusting and stupid like wod and sylvanas shouts "azeroth is free" after we kill azshra
3) she becomes kerrigan 2.0 and kills nzoth to become a god-like being who can not live in the mortal world. (shit)

only one of those is a loss.

[thunterman]

I'm 99% convinced that Sylvannus is under the Lich King's control. I'm 99% convinced the Lich King made her warchief.

The short shows Sylvannus' soul being absorbed by frostmourne, then immediately coming back as a banshee, attacking her own people. We know Vol'jin was communicating with a Loa prior to death, and which Loa is making a prominent appearance in BFA? Bwonsamdi - The Loa of Death. There is no known links between the Lich King and Bwonsamdi - which doesn't mean there isn't one. We know that EVERY troll that dies, visits Bwonsamdi. This story could pull together without retcons, all that needs to happen is evidence of a link between Bwonsamdi and the Lich King for this to totally make sense.

Lich King instructs Bwonsamdi to make Vol'jin elect Sylvannus as warchief - Sylvannus starts committing atrocities shortly after. War breaks out, both kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms are weakened from said war - Scourge invasion occurs. I believe Sylvannus is, and always has been influenced by the Lich King. Her hatred for Arthus breaking the Lich Kings hold temporarily. Sylvannus started going haywire during Cataclysm, I think there was a change when Bolvar was crowned Lich King. This is the only alternative to her just being evil. It can't be old god corruption like so many claim, because the undead are immune to the old gods corruption, and it's what everyone is expecting out of BFA. I'm calling it now, BFA is going to have a drastic shift in direction and lead us to northrend again in 9.0.

I think that is the "whole picture" I think the horde is being lead by the Lich King currently.

[Rhlor]

oh boy here we go down this rabbit hole.

You murder countless sentinels and it's ok because they are fighting back. Letting a few civilians run away is different than trying to occupy an entire city that hates you and will be doing everything it can to sabotage, kill, beat and tire you out. Civilians were going to die if the tree burned or not, that is what happens in real wars when a city is occupation. Saurfang can snort the honor dust, but this is the closest a war has ever been in WoW to being realistic, so he can shove his "honor" up his ass, because that's all it is, something to make him feel better even as he kills people.

then from your perspective when Hitler was killing the Poles in occupied Poland it was a good thing because the Poles revolted

I do not want to be a Nazi

[Friendlyimmolation]

then from your perspective when Hitler was killing the Poles in occupied Poland it was a good thing because the Poles revolted

I do not want to be a Nazi

Congratulations you're not a Nazi, you're playing a video game.

War and morality is like oil and water.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Now that would make a good twist but in the end it still would show that the Horde is ok with everything as long as someone tolds them to do it.

Aye, that's the most damaging factor. Even if that's a fake Sylvanas, everyone now knows that horde would follow whoever is in lead without questioning. If the events of Garrosh didn't teach anything to the faction as a whole, how can the alliance ever trust the horde again?

[Rhlor]

The Alliance need to be purged from Azeroth.

I have no idea why there are so many hand holders on this forum. 'Oh no the horde are evil'

Whats the point in having factions if you are always 'working together'? Kill 'em all I say



Sounds like you should be playing GW2 not WoW

I play WoW where I kill arthas the bad guy who wants to return to everyone in zombies, where I kill deathwing the evil dragon that wants to destroy the world, where I fight against the evil warchief, where I fight against demons that want to destroy the world.

in WoW I am the good guy who helps save the world. for that i play, not to be a genocide at the service of an evil mad

- - - Updated - - -

Congratulations you're not a Nazi, you're playing a video game.

War and morality is like oil and water.

when I play a game I'm supposed to fight against the Nazi not one of them
I can accept being a Soviet, they are not the best guys in the world but at least I fight against the great bad guy

[Voidwielder]

Disappointed he wasn't completely ratioed in to oblivion.

[mysticx]

I'm starting to wonder if the backlash is going to keep them from trying to tell nuanced stories in the future. If everyone flips shit without seeing it through, will they feel safer sticking to predictable bullshit storylines?

Alternatively, this will push Blizz to include a few more details in the in-game representation, a lot of things make more sense if you read the novellas alongside it, but how many people out of the whole playerbase read the WoW books?

The WoW story should be comprehensible to people who only play the game.

[candidlol]

incomplete picture but we can pretty much work out blizzards options of where they are going and none of them are particularly desirable

[Lilija]

Well it is an incomplete story... whether it turns out to be quality and making sense is a whole other question but it is incomplete

Even when the story is incomplete you can say if that incomplete part sucks or not. Apparently some people really dislike it.

On the other note, has the tweet been deleted?

[vaenlor]

the developers keep asking us to wait to see what happens that we only see the "incomplete picture".

for me it is a lie there is nothing that can happen between this and the battle for lordaeron that can make me want to protect sylvanas.

they have to give a very good reason why the one who was once the honorable horde after this does not kill sylvanas. because at this moment the only thing I can think for that we are fighting against the alliance, is that whoever is defending lordaeron is Calia after we kill syl

obviously the cinematic that we saw last year was not sylvanas was calia and we saw sylvanas to avoid the spoiler

So faction change already, what the hell is your problem? I can't stress this enough, story is not going to get better just to suit some crybabies. Wanna kill Sylvanas? FACTION CHANGE! And no, no fucking calia. Let the alliance have this bland lawful good character.

[Rhlor]

The issue is simple
This is a game, it's built on having two factions, they are probably so hard coded it can never change.
The Horde under Sylvanas wins only if the Alliance is destroyed. That's her purpose and if she wins, that's what she wants to do.
The Alliance would just want Sylvanas deposed (they even say deposed, not killed) to have peace with the Horde if they win.
Perhaps the most interesting option is the Horde deposing Sylvanas internally and then winning because the Alliance refuses to back down and dictating terms of peace like the Alliance did in SoO.

But discussing about Sylvanas winning is pure idiocy. She cannot win because the game cannot allow her to just destroy half the player base.

to depose to sylvanas us the players of the horde and that the alliance wants to continue fighting is a good way to have a war

[TickTickTick]

LMFAO, the "incomplete picture" is the worst argument and the laziest there could be.

I guess people complaining about Illidan's story in TBC were in wrong too? They've seen incomplete picture, he had his reasons and was the destined saviour of the universe.

No. It's your bad writing, blizz. Where is the consistence? If your argument for a bad story is "wait for unknown ammount of time because thats not all" then dont write at all.

I mean, the lore will be developing until they end the warcraft franchise - does it mean we are not supposed to criticize the story at any point of its life until its death? No, dont think so.

[Lochton]

the developers keep asking us to wait to see what happens that we only see the "incomplete picture".
https://twitter.com/TerranGregory/st...66138921676800

for me it is a lie there is nothing that can happen between this and the battle for lordaeron that can make me want to protect sylvanas.

they have to give a very good reason why the one who was once the honorable horde after this does not kill sylvanas. because at this moment the only thing I can think for that we are fighting against the alliance, is that whoever is defending lordaeron is Calia after we kill syl

obviously the cinematic that we saw last year was not sylvanas was calia and we saw sylvanas to avoid the spoiler

He's right though. We aren't even seeing a fracture of what will happen.

[Rhlor]

He's right though. We aren't even seeing a fracture of what will happen.

sylvanas committed a genocide that will not change, I do not want to follow the orders of someone like that