Theory: Jaina Is An Antagonist As Well

[Jokubas]

Alternate Title: The Warbringers shorts are literally about those who brought this war to us.

We know Azshara is a villain, and after the last few events, it definitely seems that Sylvanas is a major antagonist of this plot for both factions. That just leaves Jaina.

This idea came to me when I read about people interpreting Jaina's reaction in the throne room to Anduin talking about Teldrassil as one of guilt. At first, I didn't think much of it. The cutscenes have some brilliantly subtle facial animation nowadays, but sometimes that also means that characters just aren't static if they're in the shot, nothing more. However, I went through the rest of the cutscene and noticed something. Despite Jaina having the most connection to the Arthas cinematic from Warcraft III that it references, Jaina only gets focus, and a very brief focus at that, at the very end when she teleports everyone out. This is also the only time that she has any dialogue in any of the Lordaeron cutscenes. Also, when the four Alliance characters reach the center of the throne room, she is standing out of formation and further behind them. None of this has any innate meaning, but it kinda gives me the feeling that they want her to go under the radar right now while still appearing in key moments, but it would also fit if she really did have some guilt about Teldrassil.

Another thing that stood out to me was how Sylvanas broke the Alliance's siege fairly easily and fairly early on. Her final trap and big speech to Anduin never would have mattered if Jaina had not arrived. Of course, Sylvanas could have always hoped the Alliance wouldn't have an answer to that push, but smart enough to have a back-up plan anyway, but I asked myself what it would mean if Sylvanas had planned for Jaina's arrival, because they had planned it together.

Why would Jaina work with Sylvanas?

I'll admit, this relies on another theory, but one I feel isn't really a leap at this point, and that's about Sylvanas having ulterior motives all along, and isn't really working for the Horde. Aside from her actions themselves and disagreeing with Saurfang and Baine, evidence for this includes the Three Sisters comic, where the Void is convinced that Sylvanas is working for "the true enemy", Varimathras' and Gul'dan's dialogue in Legion, where they mock the Horde about Sylvanas being just as much of a threat to the Horde, and the Chronicle, which establishes that the Void relies heavily on the Alliance and Horde staying at war with each other.

Now, the first and last of those contradict (since one presumes that Sylvanas is working for the Void and the other presumes that she's their enemy too), but my point is less about who Sylvanas is actually working for, and what that force wants. I think it's fairly safe to assume at this point that whoever it is wants the Alliance and Horde to be at war.

So back to the question, why would Jaina work with Sylvanas?

Because Sylvanas proposed a situation in which Jaina could get her revenge against the Horde without the Alliance seeing her as a bad guy for it. I doubt Sylvanas told her the whole plan or why she's doing it, in fact, she may have even gave the same sort of justifications that she has to the Horde. In Jaina's current mindset, Sylvanas saying that the two factions can never truly have peace unless one destroys the other is something Jaina could easily latch onto.

Thus, Sylvanas and Jaina both get what they want. Sylvanas gets the Alliance and Horde to war with each other, and Jaina gets to fight the Horde and be hailed as a hero (or so she thinks).

As a follow-up theory to this, I think both of them (indirectly or otherwise) could be working for Azshara, tying all three Warbringers together.

Secondary Theory
SPOILER WARNING for Battle for Azeroth questing.

We know that Azshara has her tentacles in both Zandalar and Kul Tiras. This right away sets her up as a much bigger villain (regardless of what may or may not happen to her in an early raid) than what you'd expect for someone who's had essentially no presence in the marketing outside of the Warbringers. During the questing, the Horde and Alliance overthrow her presence in their respective lands, but if Sylvanas and Jaina (the latter of which specifically becomes the new leader) have ulterior motives, this actually may have been part of the plan all along.

Picture this, Azshara is pulling a Kansas City Shuffle on the Alliance and Horde. She creates moles in strategic areas that she knows the Alliance and Horde will want to gain control of, but makes them relatively obvious, so when the Alliance and Horde take down the traitor and take over the new area, they don't expect that the real mole was within their ranks the whole time.

This could even explain why Zandalari Trolls and Kul Tiran humans are unlocked later in the expansion, because our initial victory in their lands isn't actually the end of it, and we end up having to do a second campaign to actually free them.

SPOILERS OVER

I think some of the dialogue we already have could support this as well. For instance, Jaina's dialogue in the original features trailer isn't very heroic, but it was easier to dismiss when the early marketing seemed to paint the war as a necessary thing for both factions that we should be rooting for. Now that the war has actually started, it seems almost definite that it's another misdirection by a greater villain, with both the Alliance and Saurfang being against it. In other words, this makes Jaina's dialogue in line with the villains in hindsight. Then there's also her "beware of me" at the end of her Warbringer being pretty ominous. In a vacuum, it's easily a cool moment for her, but everything else makes it more questionable.

Now, I'll admit, I think this would be a disservice to Jaina's character as well. She'd go from a peace-aiming intellectual in Warcraft III, to a guilt-motivated warmonger in Mists of Pandaria, to a straight up hypocrite who lets people she cares about die to make up for letting her father die, but I don't think it would be out of the realm of possibility. It would serve fairly easily as the sort of twist that everyone has come to expect in plots like this. First, the constant clarification that she's not a dreadlord due to the meme would help distract from her still being a secret traitor, and most people's eyes are on Greymane as the one who would betray the Alliance for the sake of revenge.

To be fair, her being an antagonist may not be the end of it. I'm vaguely aware of her having an arc in Kul Tiras about confronting her demons, so it's possible she might have helped start the war, but ultimately come to regret it, but that's another theory for another time.

[Schattenlied]

Pretty sure the only guilt she feels over Teldrassil is that she was off doing her own thing and wasn't there to help, because her help could have either stopped it, or been able to evacuate all the civilians.

Aside from that... those facial expressions she made, the subtle, slight jaw drop as she looks down, seemed more like she's taking in information she can't quite believe, like she didn't even know it happened until right then, which would make sense, since she wasn't around and couldn't be contacted. If she showed up in Stormwind with her shiny new(old) ship and asked to see Anduin, and they told her he was assaulting Undercity, she would have left to help without even asking why, and we all know it.

This is what I see in that cutscene, and when her eyes come back up she's staring daggers at Sylvanas.

[Detheavn]

This is what i see in that cutscene: https://imgur.com/r/wow/gqWj8yZ

This made me giggle, but yeah, that's the feeling I had as well.

[Amaterasu65]

Jaina is not an antagonist. She has come to terms with herself and her past failures and regrets. All she's gonna do now is to help the Alliance and lead the nation she once forsake.

No matter how all you hordies try to make it so, it's not gonna happen.

[Gaidax]

This is what I see in that cutscene, and when her eyes come back up she's staring daggers at Sylvanas.

I don't think you quite understand that part.

Jaina is blaming herself for literally saving the Horde multiple times and thus allowing things that happened to happen, instead of listening to her father all along. Teldrassil in her mind is her responsibility too - a consequence of what she now considers as her mistakes of youth, just like Theramore, her father's death, whole Garrosh thing and what not.

That's why the expression.

[Trassk]

No, it definitely does not seem like that.

It does actually, when you have other faction leaders in the horde despising her.

The problem with fans of a particular character is they can't see the blindingly obvious when faced with it since it would break their immersion. And when the character in question is exposed, said fans bitch and complain as if they didn't see it coming a mile away *cough-garrosh-cough*

[Deleted]

It does actually, when you have other faction leaders in the horde despising her.

The problem with fans of a particular character is they can't see the blindingly obvious when faced with it since it would break their immersion. And when the character in question is exposed, said fans bitch and complain as if they didn't see it coming a mile away *cough-garrosh-cough*

The same way somebody who hates on one character so hard purposely interprets any defense or support or love of said character as "fanboyism" rather than seeing anything they have to say objectively, thus exposing their own inherent bias and their inability to see past it.

[Trassk]

The same way somebody who hates on one character so hard purposely interprets any defense or support or love of said character as "fanboyism" rather than seeing anything they have to say objectively, thus exposing their own inherent bias and their inability to see past it.

Oh that's convenient. Almost like you don't have a rational comeback so just repurposing what I just said. The difference is I have no investment in the story being done the way it is, where as I'm guessing you, judging from how offended this just made you, it rides on your fawning over the character being the way you want to concieve them as, even if it's wrong.

Maybe if blizzard had better writers and gave a justified reason for sylvanas' sudden need to case war you might have a valid reason, but they don't give it, despite flimsy efforts in the cutscene.

[Deleted]

Oh that's convenient. Almost like you don't have a rational comeback so just repurposing what I just said. The difference is I have no investment in the story being done the way it is, where as I'm guessing you, judging from how offended this just made you, it rides on your fawning over the character being the way you want to concieve them as, even if it's wrong.

Maybe if blizzard had better writers and gave a justified reason for sylvanas' sudden need to case war you might have a valid reason, but they don't give it, despite flimsy efforts in the cutscene.

You're just proving my point right there - if you had actually paid attention to the quests in The War of Thorns and read 'A Good War' and put it all together, you would have had your reason for Sylvanas starting this war and it would not have just appeared "sudden" But your inherent bias against her as a character stops from you from realising that. Just because you feel it is sudden, that does not make it automatically so. Disagree with her methods, disagree with the execution, the morale stance on it or whatever, that's all subjective - but what you cannot possibly claim is that it is "sudden" because it is referenced and explain time and again and given plenty of attention. To do that only reveals your own ignorance and bias. So if you're gonna accuse me of somehow being "offended" - which is standard practice for somebody who has been offended themselves - maybe check your own bias first and don't act so offended yourself because of it.

Anyway people, apologies for the derailment. Back ON TOPIC - while I do not see Jaina as an antagonist just yet, I can certainly see her potential for becoming one, especially seeing what she is capable of from the cinematic, and even more so when you consider how dark she went in Dalaran. Personally, I can actually imagine her going too far for the Alliance's liking and letting her rage or desire for revenge get the better of her. So while I cannot see it happening just yet, I certainly see seeds being planted that could turn her into an antagonist.

[Doomchicken]

Wow, people really do want Jaina to be a villain based off absolutely nothing don't they?

[Haven]

Maybe if blizzard had better writers and gave a justified reason for sylvanas' sudden need to case war you might have a valid reason, but they don't give it, despite flimsy efforts in the cutscene.

But they do. In "A Good War". It's azerite, which suddenly appeared and changed everything. Everyone has access to superweapon material. Old grudges become flammable. Sylvanas sees striking first and demoralizing Alliance as the best option. Her initial plan makes perfect sense.

[Deleted]

No, it definitely does not seem like that.

In denial much? Plaguebombing your own people and having your allies question your decisions time and time again make it clear Sylvanas is evil. She doesn't care about the living. She wants everyone dead. How is she not a villain? Care to explain?

But OP is on to something here. The 3 videos about Sylvanas, Jaina and Azshara are called "Warbringers". This is done intentionally.

We have seen how Sylvanas is evil. And we have seen the perfect candidate to replace her as Warchief. He even got a whole high quality cinematic as opposed to the Warbringers 2d slideshows. Saurfang will become Warchief.

Sylvanas will be a villain we have to get rid off. Azshara will also be. That leaves just Jaina. She is also called a Warbringer. But we haven't seen how she is evil just yet. My bet is on Old God influence. Daughter of the Sea is hearing her dead father probably. But later it turns out to be N'Zoth playing her. Jaina will be a misguided villain we have to get rid off.

My bet? The Azshara video will tie everything together. It will reveal something we don't know just yet. How she is manipulating both sides.

Sylvanas, Jaina and Azshara will all 3 be bosses in BfA.

[Kwento]

Jaina is not our antagonist. Not yet anyway.

!!Spoiler!!
Now when she becomes leader of Kul Tiras, we will see what she does. The first time she was a leader of a nation she did a pretty shitty job (in my opinion she basically is the second only to Garrosh when you make a list of who to blame for Theramor) and the second time she started slaughtering blood elves on the streets. Who knows just how bad this would go..?

[Arrashi]

Nah, they are too attached to her. Even if she does something she will be whitewashed instantly.

As long as we have golden and "strong womyn" policy, jaina isn't going anywhere.

[Deleted]

We have seen how Sylvanas is evil. And we have seen the perfect candidate to replace her as Warchief. He even got a whole high quality cinematic as opposed to the Warbringers 2d slideshows. Saurfang will become Warchief.

We have seen countless threads on here, and also official lore, collectively explaining the reason why he will almost certainly not be Warcheif, but to summarise:

1 - He does not want it himself
2 - He is eager to sacrifice himself at the first given opportunity
3 - His own crippling concept of honor makes him a liability to the Horde as a whole

With these things in mind, for the foreseeable future it means we will not be seeing a change in Warcheif, or at least seeing him personally becoming Warcheif. Don't get me wrong, I still do feel he has a critical role to play and may even have some heavy influence on Sylvanas's view of the war, and it's outcome, as a whole. But all the evidence thus far suggests it will not be as Warcheif. I just don't want him to die, although this seems to be the direction it is going, which will be a very sad for all Warcraft fans - Horde and Alliance alike - if that happens.

[Powerogue]

I don't think she'll work with Sylvanas any more than Azshara will. They all have their own goals, all conflicting.

But they're all warbringers, so I wouldn't put it past them to have her also be an antagonist. Avoiding spoilers, but during a scene in Stormwind, stay out of her way.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Get your filthy hands off of Jaina. Don't be mad that Sylvanas is fucked up that we need to fuck up Jaina.

[Arrashi]

The only thing jaina is antagonising is good storytelling

Than again, she isn't only character to do that.

[Verdugo]

It does actually, when you have other faction leaders in the horde despising her.

Like who, suicidal Saurfang and some dumb cow that has a fetish for young human boys?

[Trassk]

Like who, suicidal Saurfang and some dumb cow that has a fetish for young human boys?

Oh ho yes, because the one to trust is the genocidal lunatic who murders her own people. Face it there's nothing you can rip on the other faction leaders that could be worse then the shit she's pulled.