Chris Metzen Interview, New Battle.Net Avatars, Fan Art - Anduin: The Little Lion

[Kathranis]

It's a great interview overall and it's good to know that Chris is doing well and that he's recovered from his surgery and has gotten over his anxiety issues. I'm also glad for him to be able to experience the game as a fan rather than a creator.

I agree with a lot of what he says about having empathy towards artists and creators, because they are humans and they are putting themselves out there, which is a hard thing to do. Personal attacks, vitriol, threats, obviously these things are immature and pathetic, and they sure as hell don't make for effective or persuasive criticism.


However, I do think that valid criticism is important.

When they talk about The Last Jedi or Warbringers: Sylvanas, I think the you can't really deny that the creators missed the mark. If they hadn't missed the mark, the backlash wouldn't be so big. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

I think that Metzen gives Rian Johnson too much credit, and Metzen admittedly says he doens't know much about Johnson. Based on Johnson's attitude in interviews and other features, I really don't think he has the zealous sort of passion for Star Wars that Metzen generously assumes he must have. This is a guy who bragged about not having a vision for the films and making things up as he went along, and bragged about being hired to direct a new trilogy without actually having any ideas in mind. A guy who lacks creative vision doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt as creator, especially for something as beloved as Star Wars. He has a responsibility to the fans to do better than that.

And when it comes to Blizzard, frankly, their track record post-Warcraft 3 hasn't inspired a ton of confidence in their storytelling. I've never expected high literature from WoW -- far from it, it's pulp fantasy through and through -- and I honestly like a lot of what they've done with the story, but they've missed the mark frequently enough that even I'm skeptical of their ability to pull off this story in a satisfying way, and I'm generally an apologist who gives creators the benefit of the doubt.

Sylvanas is perhaps one of the most popular characters in the ongoing Warcraft franchise, and given Blizzard's general inability to convincingly pull off heel turns since Arthas, I think it's completely valid that this story arc is setting off red flags, and fans have every right to be angry about the direction the story of their favorite character is going.

If Blizzard had consistently churned out stories that were universally acclaimed I might have a different opinion here. Obviously there's the possibiity that they have everything planned out and it will build to a satisfying finale that makes everyone happy, regardless of whether they're fans of Sylvanas or not. It's a possibility. Blizzard just hasn't earned my unwavering faith. I mean, even in the midst of this very story there are inconsistencies between media, with the game leaving out vital dialogue and details that would help to contextualize the story, and there's really no good reason for that to happen.


Obviously, that's no reason to personally attack someone, and certainly not to threaten them. There is a right way to level criticism. If you don't like the story and want to voice your opinion, choose your words carefully and enunciate your problems with it, make a persuasive argument. Don't just dismiss it or resurt to childish insults and threats. That sort of behavior is frankly pathetic and embarrassing.

[araistlinx]

(Spoiler Alert) Everyone thinks their opinion is the main opinion or something. Personally, I love what they did with Sylvanus, and I'm a huge fan of getting the two factions to actually despise each other more again. The writing seems good to me, and many people here are lying like part of the quest wasn't to save innocent night elf lives, which to be honest, I thought was a bit soft.

[ls-]

I really dislike that people are getting actively discouraged from or even reproached for criticising companies and/or creators for the products that people pay for.

Sure, doxxing and "stoning" people on the internet isn't good, but at the same time it's bullshit that companies think and say that consumers have to either say only positive things or stfu.

[Eggroll]

Why is everyone flinging around the word "immature" like it would solve anything? There are always two sides of a story. And Mr Metzen only ever touches one. That is the very opposite of empathy.

They are creating content for a PG13 video game title! The mere expectation of emotional maturity from a playerbase with the potential age of 13 is unreasonable. And this coming from a 50 year old grown up. THAT is embarrassing.

Come back with blaming the player base after you got your game a PG16 rating. Oh wait, but then you would lose precious $$$. So you'd rather keep blaming the playerbase. Ok.

[qactuar]

I really dislike that people are getting actively discouraged from or even reproached for criticising companies and/or creators for the products that people pay for.

Sure, doxxing and "stoning" people on the internet isn't good, but at the same time it's bullshit that companies think and say that consumers have to either say only positive things or stfu.

That's not at all what's being said here. The message is to be constructive when you critique, or at least just don't be a dick.

[Deleted]

Is this a good thing? So just quietly give up on WoW without a word, just walk away.

That is what most of the people do. This is just a game I know people who didn't like specific changes in the past and stoped paying their subs. No uproar, no crying as you call it. People have better things to do, other games to try, give a chance.

For example I know a girl who loved to do WQs because she found new people there. After they destroyed the LFG system (forced typing and no auto invite) she just didn't bother with the game anymore. Luckly she didn't bought the new exp. yet because Blizzard always makes the bad changes on the last weeks so people cannot back up.

I'm personaly thinking to play only one month because the legacy loot system sneak change. I was OK with the lvl10+ to activate it so that means you can farm older expansions but changing it to lvl11+ means you need to wait 4 years before you can farm them. What a joke.

[Arvandor]

every xpac have their own downsides..
in legion that was the class development.
and in bfa this is the story..
and everyone knows..
the story is the most important thing in a rpg!

so.. christie you have your chance but you failed hard..
and in the end YOU MUST GO!

[DesoPL]

Black Ops.... Activision... ATROCITY!

[Tydrane]

Totally agree with Metzen about Christie Golden.

I figure there are gonna be some valid criticisms out there, and the people putting those forth are generally intelligent enough to do it in an eloquent manner. What I see far more of on MMO-Champion is essentially shitposting that she's bad and should be fired - look at Arvandor's post right here. No substantive criticism, just generalisations and shit-flinging.

I don't see a reason to attack the creative team for creative decisions I disagree with. I will say that I think some characters, like Saurfang or Tyrande, have been poorly handled, to put it lightly. That's not to say that the quality of the writing is bad, I just don't think they're being faithful to the established backstory of the characters.

Christie Golden isn't a bad writer because you don't like the story she tells. Richard Knaak was a bad writer, one only needs to point to one of the hacky tropes, characters like Rhonin or Vereesa, to begin to demonstrate that. I hope Christie stays on, sometimes a story not going the way you want it to can set up much more interesting scenarios to explore further down the track.

[Confucius]

Every expansion people complain and lose their minds, complaining that everything sucks and the game is ruined. Then a couple months later, we are into the expansion and the tone has shifted to "This is the most Warcraft it's been ever".

the guy really is a PR machine

[Dominus89]

https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/s...21922983587846

Mostly positive vibe, some people that wonder where the story is coming but stay polite and ONE that ask her to step down without using any mean word. We are far from the public lashing...

You do know that you dont have to answer someones tweet to tweet at them, right? Probably not.

[Super Kami Dende]

I'm critical of quite a lot of Movies/games etc. Yet I never go after people personally. I may say things like "The Last Jedi was Trash" on forums but I won't go to Rion Johnson's Twitter feed to tell him to Kill himself.

[Pacster]

"Metzen isn't going to attack a director publicly on the internet if he didn't like a movie, he'll just not buy a ticket to his next movie."

How I hate it if someone says something like that. First of all he surely complains to his friends etc.. We communicate, voicing opinions(even negative ones) is a part of it. Whether the audience is small or large is just a numbers game...in the end it's still the same action. If you do it among your friends the creator will not hear about it tho...untill it hits him in the wallet. Then it's too late for a change tho(see the warcraft movie. It was not the expected huge financial success and it's likely there won't be another one soon). How does that make things better?

It's a sad sign for society that we seems to get spread in two camps: Insulting trolls and people that see any type of criticism as bad and want to ban it cause they never learned to handle it.

May just be me, but I prefer to get criticized and be warned before someone cuts the money I need to pay my rent and buy my food. But in the payment region where Metzen lives I guess they do not need money anymore(cause they got enough) so they rather not be criticized instead.

People give feedback though. Every alpha, every beta, feedback is given and outright ignored since Wrath (when, ironically, they listened too much to some classes). Only bug reports hold interest.

May count for english bug reports. I reported like 50 bugs in WotLK back then weeks and months before release in germany...I think every single one made it into release. Stuff like where I name was wrong in the text of a quest giver and hence you have been sent to wrong locations(back then you still had to search for quest areas etc.). That one was especially annoying cause it sent you to a char from the opposit faction in a base. That's why I remember. They just would have had to change a freaking name in a text and they didn't...until 2 weeks after release(after the complaints about this quest have been all over that region-chat for days).
That's my experience with bug reports...

[Deleted]

I really dislike that people are getting actively discouraged from or even reproached for criticising companies and/or creators for the products that people pay for.

Sure, doxxing and "stoning" people on the internet isn't good, but at the same time it's bullshit that companies think and say that consumers have to either say only positive things or stfu.

You are misrepresenting what he said. What he said is to critique the work for the flaws you find in it, not the human behind it. And of course this has repercussion and impacts on the artist or company behind it (since those flaws are part of their work), so it's not like they are being given a free pass. It's just that you are critiquing them on the basis of solid arguments instead of doing shitty generalizations (which are easier because people don't have to think).

Saying "i don't like any of his works i read because X" is constructive and valid, saying "he can't write X for shit" is probably not logically defensible (ahve you read everything he produced ? what are the arguments ?), and saying "he is shit and should be fired" is an ad hominem attacks without any arguments backing it.

May just be me, but I prefer to get criticized

Again, critiquing is fine. What Metzen said is that he won't attack (ie insult/threaten) the director over it. Having healthy discussions about why you didn't like it or where you'd have liked it to go is fine and good. (it's doesn't appear in the quote you had but he does say that explicitely at some other point)

[Dominus89]

Ever since people like Bashiok and Metzen left the wow development and community, its begun to just feel like theres a growing distance between the fans/players and the devs. People like Bashiok were very hands on about everything, it just doesn't feel like current leads and mods for warcraft have the same connection.

And yeah, the wow community has always had that shit to it, people and people, and gamers are some of the worst people online sometimes in packs. but years before it at least felt like things gelled together, the community did listen and talk to the devs/mods.

These days, it just doesn't feel like it has that connection between the devs and players anymore. The problem this creates is the devs now are riding purely on their own sense of self, that they have all the best ideas and know whats best for the game and its players, so don't come down to earth with the community to talk to them more about what would make it better.
This presents the problem in that they could make something enjoyable for the players, but their running a gambit if it fails completely, the players hate it, and the devs then get pissed off because they thought they had the best ideas, and even claims the community doesn't know what it wants.

No wonder the devs disconnected themselfs from the community, considering how cancer it is Everywhere nowadays. The loud mob is much louder than the people that come with good ideas and solutions.
They cant say anything without being attacked in one way or the other.

[ls-]

Saying "i don't like any of his works i read because X" is constructive and valid.

The problem is that even this often is frowned upon.

Companies/creators defend themselves by saying "I get paid to do this, I've been doing it for years, so I know better!", "You're only criticising my work because I'm xyz", etc. Many fans white knight w/ phrases like, "How many award winning books did you write?".

[Deleted]

The problem is that even this often is frowned upon.

Companies/creators defend themselves by saying, "I get paid to do this, I've been doing it for years, so I know better!", "You're only criticising my work because I'm xyz", etc. Many fans white knight w/ phrases like, "How many award winning books did you write?".

Those aren't logical arguments (appeal to authority and don't remember the name of the other, but quite classical too). There are always shitty people on both sides of an argument. If you've given your arguments and see the other side resort to that, it's fine to call them out on it, but if the people in front of you are being toxic, at some point it's better to just stop and walk away (trying to win in toxicity isn't going to make your day better).

[Ramz]

They should've add new Avatars for Saurfang and Zekhan!

[ls-]

Those aren't logical arguments (appeal to authority and don't remember the name of the other, but quite classical too). There are always shitty people on both sides of an argument. If you've given your arguments and see the other side resort to that, it's fine to call them out on it.

And that's how you end up being called a toxic pos by a creator and/or his/her fans. In worst case scenario there'll be an article on kotaku and few other sites about some sexist/racist/whatever-ist pos verbally abusing an employee, a pure and innocent soul.

Unfortunately, many people aren't welcoming even valid criticism these days, no criticism is valid to them, even if it's well-deserved, only praise is acceptable.

[Deleted]

I really like the Anduin video, well done!