So Jaina is more powerful than Thalyssra - for real blizz?

[Kwento]

not true, draenei are canonically the physically strongest race.

Riiiiight... Care to point at where you found this “canon”..?

[steelballfc]

I've never really liked the meme, but the term "human potential" comes to mind.

it's true nonetheless

[Beloren]

i guess being descended from creations of the titans is still better then being descended from creations of the old gods.

Elves are not descended from the old gods, they are Azeroth's pinnacle of evolution. Dark Trolls were already fully sentient beings, they were taken and evolved further into night elves, night elves dominated the world in perhaps its only truly peaceful era under humanoid stewardship and it fluorished under the highbore's leadership...then Azshara had to get herself addicted and ruined it.

But elves are direct products of Azeroth, it is Azeroth that forms trolls, and Azeroth again that further evolves them into elves. The stupider night elves go all nautery, but some are smart enough to retain the arcane, and some advance that arcane state further into shal'dorei night elves, whiles the high elves do get kicked out and suffer minor devolution, however our drive and resourcefulness creates the sunwell, restoring a lot of boosts, and although we are not at original level, we aren't isolated, we may have lost a lot of ancient knowledge (which we get back when the nightborne join us), but we make up partly by the exposure to many more things than the isolated night elves.

We are exposed to improved troll magic which we best, and humans too, who together until we part ways offer many improvements and insights which we benefit completley from in addition to our knowledge.

We then get our sunwell levelled up, because it is returned now infused with divine energy, this new sunwell is as potent as the nightwell - Thalyssra remarks or nearly anyway and our magical might (if not our knowledge ) is nearly at the level of the nightborne's when the armies are about to take on Elisande (Sylgrin and Victroire - say pretty as much)

All in all, they may think us lesser, but we have clearly more than made up for it. And how embarassing for them that even with their "enhancements" we still trounce them. It's not just having more juice that matters, it's how you use it.

[Dastreus]

She hasn't had combat practice in 10k years before the resistance, and using ancient magics.
Thalyssra spent 10k years in a bubble, Jaina spent 20~ years often in battle.

[matrix123mko]

Best I recall it was just Jania and a few no bodies with her.

I recall them being "elite battlemges" or "archmages", so they were strong. Of course, Zul and Thalyssra should be enough to beat them.

[Kwento]

She hasn't had combat practice in 10k years before the resistance, and using ancient magics.

Ancient magics? Their magics evolved with them, it’s not like they set there doing the same thing every single day.

[Deleted]

The way I have always seen it, is that Elves are more refined in their magics whereas Humans brute force it. So on one hand Humans mages have the potential to be more destructive and 'powerful', but Elves know more intricacies and can do more with it.

Think of it like Deathwing (Humans) and the Lich King (Elves). Both have mantles of death but they go about it way differently.

In a D&D sense, Humans specialise in Evocation, Elves specialise in literally everything else.

[Deleted]

Ehm.. can we stop stop that "human potential" bullcrap?
Thalyssra was second do Ellisande, but only during their Night Well period... you know... when they used its "juice" to power them up. Same as their cousins in the Horde - the Blood Elfs, when they lost their source of power they became just like the rest of the world - just another elf mage, but only named.
Yeah she spent few thousand years studying the arcane arts, but only under a dome with not so much "real" practice of her skill and with no access to the rest of the world's arcane knowledge.
For comparision Jaina is battle hardened veteran, a former ruler of Dalaran and member of Counsil of the Six. As far as I know the members of that council are the strongest mages in Dalaran and Dalaran is not just human mage city.
As far as we know Thalyssra might be even below Aethas in power levels as post Nighthold events.

[Deleted]

People forgot that Jaina is a 20 years war veteran with Lei Shen's power?

[Deleted]

People forgot that Jaina is a 20 years war veteran with Lei Shen's power?

Does she though, because that staff she has isn't the same one and it hasn't been brought up since she threatened Orgrimmar.

[steelballfc]

People forgot that Jaina is a 20 years war veteran with Lei Shen's power?

does it matter
she is a human, she will be strong even if she was born yesterday.

[jellmoo]

I'm confused. Why shouldn't Jaina be more powerful? Raw ability can trump experience and knowledge in any walk of life from time to time.

[Crudence]

No nightwell, spent much time as a crack addict and being in the middle of an alliance capital. Run would be the logical choice. "Let's fight this super strong mage because I might be a bit more powerful and let everyone catch up to us and kill/capture us, hurr durr," Thalyssra might not have meant Jaina is more powerful, but under the circumstances, they could not fight. Anyway, don't see why Thalyssra should be that OP, Elisande got bitch slapped by random adventurers, derp.

[Deleted]

Thalyssra has done nothing by herself though ... she's just a rebel leader, that was on the edge of being dead when we saved her.

Years don't mean power. In that case, Horde would be long long long long gone with Draenei being tens of thousands of years old and same goes for Night Elves ...

[Kwento]

I'm confused. Why shouldn't Jaina be more powerful? Raw ability can trump experience and knowledge in any walk of life from time to time.

Because we are talking 30 years of talent vs literally 10000 years of experience.

[Deleted]

does it matter
she is a human, she will be strong even if she was born yesterday.

Well yeah, that's pretty much in all fantasies, Humans are so powerful because they usually live shorter lives so they're more active, while beings that live forever lean toward being way too passive.

- - - Updated - - -

Because we are talking 30 years of talent vs literally 10000 years of experience.

10000 years of experience of chilling under the magic barrier, safe from everyone ...

[Kwento]

Well yeah, that's pretty much in all fantasies, Humans are so powerful because they usually live shorter lives so they're more active, while beings that live forever lean toward being way too passive.

- - - Updated - - -



10000 years of experience of chilling under the magic barrier, safe from everyone ...

Safe or not, it’s arcane magic that we are talking about. The power is in mind and research.

[Aucald]

I've never quite understood why Thalyssra's statement is taken as one of fear, and judged that she is far weaker than Jaina? The group is in Stormwind on an extraction mission, attempting to use stealth and small numbers to perform a very specific task - fighting Jaina would be like detonating several metric tons of illegal fireworks in the commission of said goal. It's dangerous to the mission, and it's likely to get the targets of the extraction injured or killed (not to mention one of more of the Horde coterie involved).

In terms of raw power I think Jaina probably is stronger than Thalyssra, but not so overwhelmingly that Thalyssra would refuse to fight her. Thalyssra has already demonstrated Chronomantic skill even in her wasted Nightfallen state, she could've potentially "frozen" Jaina in time briefly as she did Erasmus Moonblade in the Suramar intro quests. But the group already were being stalked by Genn Greymane from behind, with Stormwind Royal Guards closing in on all sides, and the returning Stormwind naval forces at the docks - Jaina would've been the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back in terms of a fight, it was better for all involved to find another exit from Stormwind.

[Khaza-R]

Nothing has ever stated that Thalyssra was anything exceptional without the Nightwell. The Zandalari would have probably weak and malnourished from being in prison.

I don’t really see anything unbelievable about the Horde scenario

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Because we are talking 30 years of talent vs literally 10000 years of experience.

10000 years that were spent living in a city, doing the same crap everyday. The strongest mages in Warcraft lore have always been humans, Aegwynn, Medivh, Antonidas, Rhonin, Jaina, Khadgar, Nielas Aran, the whole council of six. Deal with it.

Forgot Kel'thuzad.