'Gay wedding cake ' baker claim persecution...again

[szechuan]

he hasn't said anything and he is only refusing to provide service due to his religions convictions then more power to him and he is 100% within his rights.

Would you say the same thing if his Religion was against Race instead of homosexuals?

[Deleted]

I fail to see how forcing a Muslim to eat pork is the same as paying a bakery to make you a cake that has a specific meaning behind it, but okay.

You are forcing people to do something they don't want to do and probably againt's their religion and enjoying their demise facing a dilemna.

MMOC, classy as always.

[Deleted]

Would you say the same thing if his Religion was against Race instead of homosexuals?

Well, i would appreciate an example?

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Which part of the bible supports his ideas? I haven't seen anything about trans hate being part of the bible or christianity. Or is it the usual case of using religion as excuse for ones own hatred?

Oh, now this about trans hate...

The goalpost is moving so fast no one can keep up.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Well, i would appreciate an example?

This isn't a new concept. We're merely revisiting the justifications for outright racism and slavery.

In conversations about our work on religious exemptions law, I frequently compare the refusal to provide wedding-related services to gay couples or reproductive health care to women for religious reasons to the widespread refusal to provide services to African-Americans for religious reasons before, during, and even after the Civil Rights Movement. This comparison is most often met with dismissive incredulity: my audience insists that this did not happen, or that if it did, it was not widespread. But in fact, religious doctrine was routinely used to justify the extensive oppression of, and discrimination against, African-Americans, beginning with religious justifications for slavery and continuing through the 20th Century, particularly in the South under Jim Crow. These arguments were more widespread before the Civil Rights Movement, but even as late as 1983 Bob Jones University, a Christian-affiliated school, was arguing in the Supreme Court that its racially discriminatory dating and marriage policies for students were constitutionally protected as a free exercise of religion. (The Supreme Court disagreed).

Link

[Daedius]

It's like you are completely blind as how identical you sounds to white segregationists during desegregation and before.

And yet the double standards and hypocrisy reeks off you lot when things like this happen with your approval when it's another faith using their Faith as a defence to, as an example, discriminate towards the other sex;

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-45207086

[szechuan]

Well, i would appreciate an example?

Christians in the past used the Bible to Justify Slavery and Racism. So would you say the same thing if Religious Groups decided to refuse service to a Race?

[Deleted]

This isn't a new concept. We're merely revisiting the justifications for outright racism and slavery.

Interesting read, some people are realy deep into the rabbit hole, refusing to serve a custom made cake to a gay couple that, stated by the baker could buy any others in display because he don't feel comfortable allowing that religion wise is now tossed in the same pot as slavery.

Please, may the madness not cross the pond.

[Prokne]

He has cakes available, he would serve them, but not make a custom cake. If he completely refused service he’d have lost withiut a doubt. I think relligious reasons to not bake a cake is silly, but it came down to his freedom of religion vs discrimination, and as far as I can find (since the SC didn’t quote much on the matter) is that he did serve them but turned down a specific request, which is potentially why they ruled in favour. Honestly, people shiuld just not use his business if they disagree with it, all pushing harder against him is going to do is move religious people to give him custom and potentially be backed by those who hate said clients. His kind is dwindling, so just let it die off, or try to argue the removal of religioud freedoms/religious beliefs as a protected class.

The SC didn't say that he could discriminate against his customers that way. What they said was the Colorado government was too judgemental and zealous in suing him for breaking the law, so they let him go.

The service is a custom cake which is offered to his public customers. Someones custom retirement cake is no different from someone else's custom coming out cake. I he offers one, he has to offer the other. If he had a standard retirement cake, maybe adding the name of the person, and didn't offer custom cakes at all, not having a standard coming out cake would not be discrimination because it is not a product he supplies.

People who disagree with his actions based on his beliefs should not do business with him, but that is not the whole point. The point is that it is not ethical to make certain subsets of the population have to search out which public businesses will serve them because there are a whole bunch that won't. And his kind is not really dwindling. The more it is made acceptable to discriminate against people, which perpetuates these beliefs among his customers and staff, the more people will agree with him.

As for religious beliefs being a protected class, it is. It was never meant for people to be able to impose their beliefs on other people. It was meant so that other people (government and government allowed activities such as public businesses) could not impose their beliefs on you.

[Deleted]

Christians in the past used the Bible to Justify Slavery and Racism. So would you say the same thing if Religious Groups decided to refuse service to a Race?

Since the kebab down the street i live refuse to serve white that aren't converted (you know, the whole kouffar thingy?) and i don't make a fuss about it, i think your example is quite precious, whatever to propel your agenda?

Marseille is such a great place to live.

[Endus]

And yet the double standards and hypocrisy reeks off you lot when things like this happen with your approval when it's another faith using their Faith as a defence to, as an example, discriminate towards the other sex;

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-45207086

She wasn't refusing to work with anyone. Just refusing to shake hands. Germophobes would do the same thing, for albeit different reasons. It's not a requirement of her work, so why require her to do it?

On the other hand, my mother worked with a colleague who was an Iraqi immigrant, about 20 years ago. He insisted he wouldn't work with any clients that were Jews (this was a big engineering firm). This got reported up the chain, he was called into the owner's office, he repeated that, and he was summarily fired. He sued for wrongful dismissal, the court asked if he'd stated he wouldn't work with Jewish clients, he confirmed, case thrown out.

There's no "double standard" or "hypocrisy". There's just folks like yourself who don't understand the standard, and think it's about letting a particular religious group do whatever they want. That isn't the case. The actual standard is whether you're unreasonably prejudiced and that's affecting your capability to work with clients and customers. And in that, religion is not a legitimate defense. It's completely irrelevant to the argument.

[Kapadons]

Curious, why is it a bad comparison?

The color of your skin is a defining characteristic of who you are. Without even bringing the culture of black Americans into who they are as a person. It’s easily identifiable and not something you could hide or change.

Who you sleep with simply isn’t the same. If I only fuck 600lb fat chicks that have been rolled in butter or only get off by getting punched in the nuts or only fuck other dudes, that’s fuck all as anyone else’s business. Especially some cake maker. But I could conceal these things rather easily and it changes your perception of me not one bit. Unless I specifically tell you I’m in to butterballs, you don’t have to know or need to know.

Besides, the struggle black Americans went through isn’t remotely on the same level as gay Americans face now. Yes, they both suck. But historically, blacks have had it worse in America. Comparing not getting the cake you want from the guy you want to the atrocities black Americans dealt with, to me anyways, cheapens exactly what they went through.

[szechuan]

Since the kebab down the street i live refuse to serve white that aren't converted (you know, the whole kouffar thingy?) and i don't make a fuss about it, i think your example is quite precious, whatever to propel your agenda?

Marseille is such a great place to live.

Christians in the past used the Bible to Justify Slavery and Racism. So would you say the same thing if Religious Groups decided to refuse service to a Race?

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Interesting read, some people are realy deep into the rabbit hole, refusing to serve a custom made cake to a gay couple that, stated by the baker could buy any others in display because he don't feel comfortable allowing that religion wise is now tossed in the same pot as slavery.

Please, may the madness not cross the pond.

So, it's okay to use the argument against one group but not against another? What makes race such a more important classification than being gay or trans? Sounds like a toxic ranking of groups of people to me.

Also, as I pointed out, this garbage has already spread. Theft of a trans woman's prescription in Arizona (refusal to return it, fill it, or transfer it) that is apparently protected by the state, legal discrimination of LGBT folks through taxpayer funded adoption agencies, taxpayer funds going to federal contractors who discriminate, and the denial of spousal benefits by government agencies due to religious objection.

They're already using our own tax dollars and then denying us access to services and protecting criminal activity against us.

[Daelak]

And yet the double standards and hypocrisy reeks off you lot when things like this happen with your approval when it's another faith using their Faith as a defence to, as an example, discriminate towards the other sex;

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-45207086

What? I'm not following you here. The statement you made earlier are identical to the statements made by white segregationists when the federal government desegregated society. You are ad-libbing the arguments used by white segregationists. This is why they hide behind religious interpretation, since the US has historically been liberal with their practices.

[Prokne]

And yet the double standards and hypocrisy reeks off you lot when things like this happen with your approval when it's another faith using their Faith as a defence to, as an example, discriminate towards the other sex;

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-45207086

The woman wasn't a business. The business discriminated against her for being a Muslim woman who couldn't shake hands with a man.

If it was a Muslim business that refused to interview or hire someone because they were female, then it would be discrimination because of religion and illegal.

[Martymark]

Obviously he's being stalked and harassed by haters. "Customer" was trying to get him one way or another, they didn't actually go to his place for a coming out cake in good faith unless they are morons.

[Prokne]

Since the kebab down the street i live refuse to serve white that aren't converted (you know, the whole kouffar thingy?) and i don't make a fuss about it, i think your example is quite precious, whatever to propel your agenda?

Marseille is such a great place to live.

Should also be prohibited. If there is not a law in France against this practice there should be like there is in Colorado where this baker operates a public business.

[Deleted]

Christians in the past used the Bible to Justify Slavery and Racism. So would you say the same thing if Religious Groups decided to refuse service to a Race?

Did... did you just copy-pasted your previous sentence?

So, it's okay to use the argument against one group but not against another? What makes race such a more important classification than being gay or trans? Sounds like a toxic ranking of groups of people to me.

Also, as I pointed out, this garbage has already spread. Theft of a trans woman's prescription in Arizona (refusal to return it, fill it, or transfer it) that is apparently protected by the state, legal discrimination of LGBT folks through taxpayer funded adoption agencies, taxpayer funds going to federal contractors who discriminate, and the denial of spousal benefits by government agencies due to religious objection.

They're already using our own tax dollars and then denying us access to services and protecting criminal activity against us.

Trans/gay isn't a race as far as i know, you can't mix that case with slavery.

Everyone is getting the long dick of the questionable law in the ass, should i bow more to someone because they are lgbt? should lgbt people have more rights than others "bland" citizens? is every negative actions againt's someone is because of hatred?

We are governed by assholes, anywhere on the planet, my gov is using our tax Euros to divide the community, allowing some to do criminal activity against us without repercution and wage a war no one want here,

I have sympathy for you as a person in your struggle as i do to every other human being on the planet, it's not that i don't support your cause, it's that i don't care since i'm not part of it, adapt or get bent.

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Should also be prohibited. If there is not a law in France against this practice there should be like there is in Colorado where this baker operates a public business.

You're allowed to do as you please with your business, as it should be, who are you to tell what is right and what is wrong? aren't you forcing some kind of view to people?

He don't want to serve me? i'll go somewhere else where my money is appreciated, and since he only serve muslims, he is going out of business very fast, it's as simple as that.

[Endus]

Trans/gay isn't a race as far as i know, you can't mix that case with slavery.

Semantic quibbling over the label of your particular flavor of hate isn't a productive argument.

Everyone is getting the long dick of the questionable law in the ass, should i bow more to someone because they are lgbt? should lgbt people have more rights than others "bland" citizens? is every negative actions againt's someone is because of hatred?

LGBT people don't have any more "rights" than anyone else. Protected class legislation protects everyone, and equally, by definition.

[Realitytrembles]

This is all about the war on religion by the progressive liberals and has nothing to do with discrimination.

One of the most justified wars there could be. F organized religion and its clinging to the past.

Notice I said "organized". Believe whatever you want, but when it affects someone else, screw that.