Balance DPS feels awful...why?

[Bako]

Let's be real, Balance is bad at current gear levels. Look at the sims. Let's not pretend anyone doing poorly is a bad player.

simulationcraft(hint: for those that can't read a graph, Balance is dead last in ilvl 340 sims)

Maybe you do well compared to your friends because your friends are actually bad and you are better.

G I T G U D
did u look at the gear? i dont think so
Go delete your post , fu**in casual

[Ojido]

Bhorin

So you're trying to say Balance is bad by linking sims with wrong talents and wrong traits ?
Damn.

[Bhorin]

G I T G U D
did u look at the gear? i dont think so
Go delete your post , fu**in casual

Looks pretty generic like every other class. Let me guess, if they had gone a different trait Balance would leap frog from dead last to first.

Imagine telling someone to git good for posting simulations.. and for the rest of your post.. what are you 12?

[Ojido]

Looks pretty generic like every other class. Let me guess, if they had gone a different trait Balance would leap frog from dead last to first.

Imagine telling someone to git good for posting simulations.. and for the rest of your post.. what are you 12?

For posting wrong simulations*

[Bhorin]

Bhorin

So you're trying to say Balance is bad by linking sims with wrong talents and wrong traits ?
Damn.

Even if the correct talents and traits gave a 10% boost to DPS compared to what they have (e.g. not realistic at all) in the sim Balance is still at best low mid tier. And that also assumes every other class in the sim has the best talents + traits.

[korijenkins]

Anything that isn't a ret pally or a rogue feels awful right now. Blame the beta testers for not doing their job, and Blizzard for ignoring the few who did.

[Demonpuke]

Even if the correct talents and traits gave a 10% boost to DPS compared to what they have (e.g. not realistic at all) in the sim Balance is still at best low mid tier. And that also assumes every other class in the sim has the best talents + traits.

it is realistic. in fact its far more than 10%. streaking stars is an easy 20-30% boost in dps the way it stands now. thats assuming simcraft is using the correct apl, which i can assure IT IS NOT. using the wrong apl to sim a character is like using a warlock apl to sim a warrior.

you can link that stupidly inaccurate ranked list of specs that simcraft has on their homepage all day but that doesnt prove anything. frankly, simcraft should be ashamed of themselves for even posting that bullshit. what other site, wowhead, icy veins, ect, would get away with posting information that not only is incorrect but is so far off base that it should be entirely ignored? not a one.

i dont need a simulation to tell me where i stand. thats what the game is for. the only thing a simulation is ever good for is comparing gear or stats against each other. stop relying on simcraft to play your game for you.

[Deleted]

it is realistic. in fact its far more than 10%. streaking stars is an easy 20-30% boost in dps the way it stands now. thats assuming simcraft is using the correct apl, which i can assure IT IS NOT. using the wrong apl to sim a character is like using a warlock apl to sim a warrior.

you can link that stupidly inaccurate ranked list of specs that simcraft has on their homepage all day but that doesnt prove anything. frankly, simcraft should be ashamed of themselves for even posting that bullshit. what other site, wowhead, icy veins, ect, would get away with posting information that not only is incorrect but is so far off base that it should be entirely ignored? not a one.

i dont need a simulation to tell me where i stand. thats what the game is for. the only thing a simulation is ever good for is comparing gear or stats against each other. stop relying on simcraft to play your game for you.

We dont gain 20-30 % single target dps by using 3X SS. Yes SimC is fucked up but we arnt gaining even close to 30 % dps on a raid fight.

[Bhorin]

it is realistic. in fact its far more than 10%. streaking stars is an easy 20-30% boost in dps the way it stands now. thats assuming simcraft is using the correct apl, which i can assure IT IS NOT. using the wrong apl to sim a character is like using a warlock apl to sim a warrior.

you can link that stupidly inaccurate ranked list of specs that simcraft has on their homepage all day but that doesnt prove anything. frankly, simcraft should be ashamed of themselves for even posting that bullshit. what other site, wowhead, icy veins, ect, would get away with posting information that not only is incorrect but is so far off base that it should be entirely ignored? not a one.

i dont need a simulation to tell me where i stand. thats what the game is for. the only thing a simulation is ever good for is comparing gear or stats against each other. stop relying on simcraft to play your game for you.

Simcraft is a baseline understanding not a be all. Your derogatory tone is both rude and unfounded.

Reviewing the log they have 1 trait in streaking stars and he got 20 procs per alignment (reasonable apl there I assume). It contributed 441 dps, so 2 extra traits adds 882 dps (less than 10% before subtracting the dps from the other trait).

Here's where I use your derogatory tone in response: But I guess you can continue to base your opinion on 1.5 minute mythic fights with high uptime on a 3 minute cool down....

[Demonpuke]

im not talking raids. i dont know why you are either. there are no raids out right now, this entire conversation is irrelevant in a week when class tuning if adjusted. the only content you are doing is mythic 0. that means the only thing that is relevant is mythic 0, and in mythic 0 there IS a 20-30% difference in single target damage. if you still dont believe me go do a training dummy test and you will see for yourself.

even on a roughly seven minute training dummy fight with two CA's i see a difference of about 10-12%, so even trying to say that 10% isnt relevant is still wrong. you should test these things for yourself.

trying to compare this to raids, which you literally cant do because there is ZERO information to extrapolate from, is like comparing orange juice to a rocket ship and then asking which one is better to roof your house with.

[Deleted]

im not talking raids. i dont know why you are either. there are no raids out right now, this entire conversation is irrelevant in a week when class tuning if adjusted. the only content you are doing is mythic 0. that means the only thing that is relevant is mythic 0, and in mythic 0 there IS a 20-30% difference in single target damage. if you still dont believe me go do a training dummy test and you will see for yourself.

even on a roughly seven minute training dummy fight with two CA's i see a difference of about 10-12%, so even trying to say that 10% isnt relevant is still wrong. you should test these things for yourself.

trying to compare this to raids, which you literally cant do because there is ZERO information to extrapolate from, is like comparing orange juice to a rocket ship and then asking which one is better to roof your house with.

Why are you talking about m0? They dont matter. You can play whatever the fuck you like and still breeze trough them. Basing your info about content that we walked trough in 290 ilvl 2 days after release seems reasonable /s.

Raids/M+ is the PvE endgame, M0 isnt an endgame, its irrelevant what dps you have in a m0 because you cant fail anyways.

If you want to have a serious discussion about meaningful content, by all means, but m0 isnt meaningful content.

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Simcraft is a baseline understanding not a be all. Your derogatory tone is both rude and unfounded.

Reviewing the log they have 1 trait in streaking stars and he got 20 procs per alignment (reasonable apl there I assume). It contributed 441 dps, so 2 extra traits adds 882 dps (less than 10% before subtracting the dps from the other trait).

Here's where I use your derogatory tone in response: But I guess you can continue to base your opinion on 1.5 minute mythic fights with high uptime on a 3 minute cool down....

Dont bother with him, he thinks its meaningful to have a discussion about m0.

[joltcola1234]

it is realistic. in fact its far more than 10%. streaking stars is an easy 20-30% boost in dps the way it stands now. thats assuming simcraft is using the correct apl, which i can assure IT IS NOT. using the wrong apl to sim a character is like using a warlock apl to sim a warrior.

you can link that stupidly inaccurate ranked list of specs that simcraft has on their homepage all day but that doesnt prove anything. frankly, simcraft should be ashamed of themselves for even posting that bullshit. what other site, wowhead, icy veins, ect, would get away with posting information that not only is incorrect but is so far off base that it should be entirely ignored? not a one.

i dont need a simulation to tell me where i stand. thats what the game is for. the only thing a simulation is ever good for is comparing gear or stats against each other. stop relying on simcraft to play your game for you.

Relying on 1 trait to be viable is also horrible design though, it's not a helpful counter argument to Balance not being good.

[Demonpuke]

Why are you talking about m0? They dont matter. You can play whatever the fuck you like and still breeze trough them. Basing your info about content that we walked trough in 290 ilvl 2 days after release seems reasonable /s.

Raids/M+ is the PvE endgame, M0 isnt an endgame, its irrelevant what dps you have in a m0 because you cant fail anyways.

If you want to have a serious discussion about meaningful content, by all means, but m0 isnt meaningful content.

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Dont bother with him, he thinks its meaningful to have a discussion about m0.

dont bother with HIM, he thinks that crying about current raid dps is a meaningful conversation when there are no raids or mythic plus and class tuning hasnt happened yet.

that can go both ways, see how that works?

[Aggrophobic]

Anything that isn't a ret pally or a rogue feels awful right now. Blame the beta testers for not doing their job, and Blizzard for ignoring the few who did.

Nah, we did our job. Blizzard din't give a fuck though.

[darklogrus]

Anything that isn't a ret pally or a rogue feels awful right now. Blame the beta testers for not doing their job, and Blizzard for ignoring the few who did.

Trust me, the Alpha and the mid Beta version was far far far worse then it is now..

[Deleted]

dont bother with HIM, he thinks that crying about current raid dps is a meaningful conversation when there are no raids or mythic plus and class tuning hasnt happened yet.

that can go both ways, see how that works?

Well we have no way of knowing what the class tuning will bring so how can we even take that into equation? A meaningful discussion is what we currently have to work with in relevant content i.e M+ or mythic progression for the PvE side of the game.

For all we know they might barely change anything for balance druids.

Also where do I cry about raid dps?

[joltcola1234]

Part of the reason Balance feels so bad right now is low haste (as was already mentioned). Balance is always relying on slow casts (LS, SW, Moon Moon (last expansion)). So haste is vital to making the spec not feel super slow and stationary.

Legendary items like the proc on Oneth's, or Radiant Moonlight effect, or Dreamcatcher, gave some extra flavor to the rotation which is now gone in BfA. To me the Balance rotation just doesn't feel interesting right now, it doesn't really feel dynamic or fun at all. Add to the fact we all have really low haste numbers (for the most part) and on top of feeling uninteresting, it also feels slow. The Azerite traits also leave so much to be desired right now. The passive effects really do little to your rotation to make it feel any different.

Ramp up DPS is not fun in shorter style encounters, which is mostly what we have right now. It's especially not fun in dungeons when other classes can instantly unload full potential AoE dps on packs while your still trying to get going. Balance FEELS like it has a lot going against it right now, but hopefully things change a bit as the expansion progresses, it's still very early. Any number of things can happen after Blizzard does some tuning.

My major grip right now is just the feel of the rotation. Something about it feels so stale and uninteresting. I hope this can somehow be remedied, maybe with some more interesting Azerite traits. I think that system has a lot of potential but right now just feels pretty bad for Balance Druids.

[Deleted]

I thinks its a matter of gear, not sure what other classes can pull out on a dummy 5min fight with old flask/pots but this is my result: 11.5k on 5:11min
https://gyazo.com/6833fc97070ae64dec49c652d87049ea

[Deleted]

My major grip right now is just the feel of the rotation. Something about it feels so stale and uninteresting. I hope this can somehow be remedied, maybe with some more interesting Azerite traits. I think that system has a lot of potential but right now just feels pretty bad for Balance Druids.

I agree to some extent, moons/legens were removed and the gameplay doesnt really feel great right now. Id love for a short-medium long CD that would make our rotation a bit more interesting/fun.

[Deleted]

Who gives a shit about how Balance performs in irrelevant content where everything dies in a 4 second Bladestorm. They're going to be highly desirable for M+ and in raids they'll have their place. Things will get better as soon as M+ opens.