Mythic dungeons should be discontinued.

[SupBrah]

There should be only ONE difficulty.

Everything else should be Mythic+ style with affixes @ higher lvls.

Loot is locked to once a week pr 3 lvls.

Soo no normal level dungeons to do between leveling? That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

If any difficulty should be removed, it's heroic. Heroic is only relevant the first week or 2 of the expansion. Once Normal/LFR raids open up heroic is forgotten, while Mythic still has incentive for people to run every week (hydrocores, Glory achievements, mount drops, etc).

Hell, I and many others just skipped heroic and went straight to Mythic when we got to about 300 ilvl. I didn't step foot into a heroic until after I had ran all 9/10 mythics that I could, and that was only like 1 or 2 runs just to replace some shitty boots or something that I couldn't currently get from WQs

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

What difference does it make what they call the various difficulties? All that matters is they got a system where you can gradually gear up and do more challenging versions.

[goldentforce]

I mean it's prob more fair to say normals shouldn't be available at 120 but the small redundancy is completely outgeared to where normal is dead and u only do heroics to grind to fill a loot slot and do every mythic once, in at most a week if u tried. I think I only did 3 normals till heroic and around the same heroics till mythic which isn't that bad, and imo system is fine.

[Spotnick]

Think of it this way.. the only reason why heroic exists is because complained Cataclysm dungeons were too hard.. so they took normal dungeons and relabeled them as heroic.

And yes, WOTLK dungeons were challenging at the start, maybe not Cata challenging, but they were, I clearly remember wiping in Violet Hold and how Looki was hard. It got a lot easier because WOTLK introduced catch up gear and easier raids, so everybody was outgearing the content and it turned into an AOE fest once LFG and its luck of the draw buff were introduced.

I admit putting the crafting material there is a mistake though, the AP reward is so negligible that they had to put a reason to go back there I guess.

- - - Updated - - -

Should just remove normal and change mythic to heroic.

Do the same with raids as well. No reason to have 4 difficulties. All it does is make the gear spike from beginning to end of the xpac massive because each tier needs 4 difficulties of gear instead of 2 or 3.

It is necessary for some people. The skill gap between players is very big.

I have only ran mythic dungeons this xpac, so I can't judge for normal or heroic difficulty, but why do you care if there are lower difficulties?

[Queen of Hamsters]

I'd rather they just removed Normal dungeons, keep the Heroic and Mythic/Mythic+ names.

[cuafpr]

agreed all we need is normal/HC both queuable and HC+ non-queable and ZERO lore locked behind HC+.

[darklogrus]

Make it Queueble and call it a day..

[Dreadlack]

Mythics are fine for gearing/difficulty in the beginning. However I strongly disagree about locking storylines/professions behind them.

[Vapo]

“It’s time to scrap the Mythic dungeon system as it is, because it’s not achieving anything”.

Here’s what’s happening:

- You hit 120 and use normal dungeons to get 310 gear (queue available).
- You hit 300+ item level and use Heroic dungeons to get 325 gear (queue available).
- You hit 330 plus and use Mythic dungeons to get 340 gear, complete achievements and get items (no queue available).
- You complete Mythic dungeons and engage in the Mythic+ system for chests (no queue available).

This simply isn’t necessary. There’s currently no argument that suggests that it is. Here’s what the system could look like:

.

Here's what actually happened:
Hit 120
Get some shitty crafted gear around 305
did few heroics
went M+0s and walked over them
326 and spam heroics for missing pieces.

[Flurryfang]

While i get the point that you are getting out with, that heroic dungeons are currently not filling a needed role, i would say that it currently fills a good role of being the level 120 queing group content.

Normals are currently now used mostly for leveling and getting early gear for your character when you hit lvl 120, but it is actually outgeared by WQs and quests in general quite quickly and most definantly in later patches, when WQs gear gets upgraded. Heroic is then the platform for queing content, content you can do when you have enough gear to actually participate in content together with others and when you are max lvl for sure. Removing it will reduce the number of people lvl 110-119s can join up with, as the low lvl 120 are a good number of people queing with the system. You will also remove a logical buffer between leveling content and max lvl content, as you will be launched into the pool of high item lvl players just as soon as you hit lvl 120, which might not help peoples experience. Having a slow ladder up the gearing system is good.

In the end, removing heroic does not really do much, but it does not really do any harm as it already is. It has a function in the gearing process, but also just a function of being a queable group experience which you can do whenever you want. The reward at that state might not be important just that it is there.

[Sastank]

Time to scrap this thread because it's not accomplishing anything either.

[Deleted]

That being said, it's not broken, therefore I don't think it needs a fix.

It is broken. It's exaggerating the item level inflation, and creating another treadmill of RNG dependence that doesn't need to be there.

You want the remove the system that you cannot que for, cause you know you dont get accepted to things that you have to app for or (heaven forbid) talk to others about grouping and doing.

I haven't said anything even resembling that.

Please read the post. That's all I ask.

I would argue that people doing current heroic dungeons (not even attempting Mythic) are likely to cap their progress with LFR. People doing Mythic dungeons (assuming they also raid) will likely at least do Normal mode. I think there are some people who really don't want a higher difficulty than current Heroic dungeon/LFR and for those who do want that, the time spent doing Heroic dungeons is so small that removing it doesn't really provide any real benefit. Basically, no need to remove content for people who like that content just to add a very minor benefit to those who don't like it.

This looks like a fair argument on first glance but, actually, it's not.

You see, the level cap dungeons would enforce an item level lowering from LFR also; so, in other words, the current audience that doesn't do Mythic dungeons would still have their content. They could level up, do normals to pick up their item level, then queue for LFR upon its opening.

Done.

1) Time gate. Don't have enough time to gear up, so even if they're good at the game, they can't progress far enough, fast enough.
2) Skill gate. Multitasking is a skill some people don't have, some people do, and others have it more than others. Being able to effectively utilize that skill is what separates a Heroic raider from a Mythic raider, and a Heroic/Mythic dungeon runner from a Mythic+ runner pushing tiers.

This is easy to retune, luckily.

You've missed the point of mythics entirely. They are essentially 5 man raid content on a timer (and if you think otherwise, you aren't pushing keys near your collective gear or skill level). They are intended to be used as an addition to raiding, or an alternative end game for folks who simply aren't interested in raiding.

As I've said to several people already, please read the opening post.

Once you've done that, you'll see that I'm not arguing against what you're arguing for.

I think they should do the exact reverse to what you propose and make both mythic 0 and mythic+ queueable.

I'm actually pretty ambivalent about that. I get why current Mythics aren't in the queue but, honestly, let the community decide. I can't see why not?

[rda]

I'm actually pretty ambivalent about that. I get why current Mythics aren't in the queue but, honestly, let the community decide. I can't see why not?

Well, if your point is that we don't need three things named Normal, Heroic and Mythic, and can do with just two, then I agree, whatever they are named.

[Khallid]

[i]All Heroic dungeons are doing at the moment is providing an additional queued rung to the gearing treadmill, that level-cap dungeons could easily achieve, and they’re simply inflating item level beyond what is necessary. They are an objectively bad piece of design because they’re achieving something that the game simply doesn’t need in any way whatsoever.

Anyone who disagrees should feel free to present their counter-argument, but I’ve already spiked the main ones.

Removing the Mythic setting clears up the gear treadmill, helps deflate item levels prior to dungeon affixes and raids, and stops choking the endgame with reward vehicles that awkwardly fight with one another.

I don't think it makes much of a difference. There are 4 difficulty tiers right now (Normal, Heroic, Mythic and Mythic+), and after one or two weeks only the last one is relevant. There could be 2 or 20 difficulty tiers and the exact same thing would happen.

I skipped the Normal and Heroic gearing curve. You can do mythic dungeons easily with 290 ilvl if you have good players. World Quests eventually give better rewards than Heroic dungeons. So sure, there's more difficulties than necessary, but I don't see any significant downside. You can skip them if you're good, or you can take your time. At the end of the day, more difficulties allows for a more flexible approach to players of different skill levels. 4 difficulties is not a crazy amount by any means.

[RobertMugabe]

It's better if you read the post, then respond.

You'll be flabbergasted at what that does for your understanding.

Pinky swear.

I agree with the other poster: No.

[alexchaos]

I agree.

I don't understand why we have three difficulties. Also, the badge of justice system was way better than the one at the moment. With badges you just have less RNG... actually no RNG.

It actually gave replayability to dungeons too. Now once you're geared out they're useless unless it's m+ and even then raid gear is better 90% of the time.

[Gorsameth]

Here's what actually happened:
Hit 120
Get some shitty crafted gear around 305
did few heroics
went M+0s and walked over them
326 and spam heroics for missing pieces.

Pretty much.
The people complaining here are the ones that shouldn't even have set foot in normal's and just gone strait for heroic and mythics once they were above 300. Its content that is not intended for them.

Its a bunch of 'pro' football players complaining that the amateur leagues are useless for them. 'Why doesn't everyone just go pro'.

[Cierah]

The current system works just fine for those who can get into (or have interest AND skill to do) it.

Normal dungeons and LFR raids are for your casuals who simply don't have time but want to see content.
Heroic dungeons are for your players who have a bit more skill and can handle mechanics.
Normal raids are for heroic dungeon players that can gear up a bit more - i.e. more time involvement.
Mythic dungeons are for the players that want to take a step beyond the normal raid/heroic dungeon skill level. Mechanics matter more here as fights take longer until you get to where you simply outgear them which is usually a content patch later.
Then you get M+ at lower keys and heroic raids for the players who are willing to invest time and develop or have the skill to compensate.
Lastly we get high key M+ and mythic raiding for the dedicated. You won't outgear high key M+ until the end of the expansion. Mythic raids get a bit easier but only after you've cleared them several times and the raiders get the gear spread out. Mythic raiders have the skill so it is a gear gate for them.

Changing the system where you're eliminating levels will kluge the entire system. You'll get your super casuals in runs with players who are developing skills or are interested in bettering themselves to take the next step. That will drop performance in those instances and cause participation rates to drop which is against everything Blizzard is trying to do. LFR itself was introduced purely because they wanted a larger portion of the playerbase to see developed content rather than only the raiding portion seeing it.

Each difficulty level has its own niche and it has settled into a nice flow. The gearing? If you work the system you don't even need to enter dungeons to get your ilvl higher. Make a bunch of gold and buy the gear from the AH. It is for these reasons that gating difficulty levels (as previously suggested) by ilvl for queuing (random queues for mythic and M+ is a terrible idea as especially in M+ it is unforgiving as you get higher keys) will not work. While there may be a small percentage of players who are skilled but don't have time, a larger portion are simply gear whores that claim ilvl is everything to the exclusion of all else.

TL;DR - the current system works fine, leave it as such.

[Lora]

simply put, no. the system is fine.

[RoKPaNda]

It isn't broken, and you don't have to do Blizzard's job for them. By that I mean you're worried about ilevel inflation and that's on Blizzard to fix.

Each dungeon difficulty serves a purpose, just like each raid difficulty. Even I personally don't run normal/heroic/M0 dungeons with any regularity after M+ releases during an expansion they still serve a purpose for others. Same with LFR/Normal/Heroic. I have very little reason to run those beyond the first couple weeks in a tier, but for a lot of people each of those is their endgame.