None of BFA selling points turned out to be competently done.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Blizzard decided that "endless grinds for tiny increases of power for those who want to be ahead" was preferable to "omg blizz I'm in bis cause I'm a no lifer where's the content?" Cause you know damn well if these things weren't endless we'd be back with WoD 2.0 and I will not put up with another 2 years of listening to people bitch about content.

I recommend migrating from these forums to Reddit. We already have the same people behaving the same way during Legion, complaining about "no content", 2 weeks into this expansion.
The same crowd will continue to complain in the same ways that they have been for half a decade or more by now, and still they keep giving Blizzard their money all the same... Like, being critical is fine, nobody likes EVERYTHING about a product, but claiming that the crowd of usual suspects on these forums are being constructively critical is to water down the term.

[Vorkreist]

I agree with your points op. I don't think it was a central selling point but war mode is actually fun although it could have been even better with improved sharding system to balance the zones faster.

[rda]

I recommend migrating from these forums to Reddit. We already have the same people behaving the same way during Legion, complaining about "no content", 2 weeks into this expansion.

Yes, go to Reddit. That's the place for fanboys. Everyone minds their karma and is awfully afraid of minuses, and this wonderful atmosphere produces a constant stream of information-free feel-good posts with screens and fluffy thoughts and "positivity", with only occasional dives into reality when Blizzard goof so bad that it becomes socially acceptable to point that out.

[Lightforged]

Summary of WoW community:

*expansion X is released*

Person A: "Omfg this expansion is complete garbage. Blizzard ruined WoW. Every aspect of the game completely sucks. I'm unsubbing now. Everyone is unsubbing. I hope Blizzard goes bankrupt."

Person B: "I actually really like this expansion, and I know a lot of people who are also enjoying it. Sure, it has flaws, but most of the features are actually fun and good to the game. Here are the reasons: [insert list of reasons]"

Person A: "Hahaha, look at these Blizzard fanboys always finding a way to white-knight everything that Blizzard does and saying that this greedy cash-grabbing company is perfect, when it is the actual incarnation of the Devil. Wait and see, this expansion is going to be a total failure and Blizzard will have to give up on the franchise."

2 years years later, when expansion Y is released, person A is praising expansion X and saying it was (one of) the best expansion(s) ever and that expansion Y is complete garbage.

It is an unbreakable cycle. It happened in MoP, it happened in Legion, it is happening in BfA and it will happen in 2020 when the next expansion is released.

The funniest thing about it, though, is that person A never actually unsubs.

Exactly. The only time that didn't happen was with WoD, and even then a lot of people are starting to say they liked the leveling content and the raids, even if the story was left unfinished and the expansion as a whole was a flop.

[Mafic]

Yes, go to Reddit. That's the place for fanboys. Everyone minds their karma and is awfully afraid of minuses, and this wonderful atmosphere produces a constant stream of information-free feel-good posts with screens and fluffy thoughts and "positivity", with only occasional dives into reality when Blizzard goof so bad that it becomes socially acceptable to point that out.

Good post.

You are a valued member of the community as well. Some people understand the nuances being discussed here while others do not. WoW is a complex game but not that complex if you have a good understanding of MMORPG gameplay.

[Whatever Dude]

Azerite is orders of magnitude more compelling than Artifacts.

What a crock of shit. The vast majority of Azerite traits are generic passives that you can forget about after getting them.

I'm swapping gear around all the time.

Most people in the expansion aren't no-lifing as hard as you are to be able to have full sets for single-target and AoE.

I can see an argument for it being the same as Artifacts, but the vast majority of artifact traits were "gain 1% damage on Aimed Shot" and similar garbage.

That's exactly what the Azerite trait system is. You're deluded.

[Mafic]

This is true Azerite is a serious of passives which makes it NLC 2.0.

Worse, is that Azerite armor replaces, legenaries, tier set bonues, artifact traits and talents, etc.

[Wildpantz]

Agree islands suck D. Warfronts are amazin. Azerite fun as hell when you get 340+ ones or 3 of same traits. Allied races the old ones are annoying for new players sure but the bfa ones are story related

[CogsNCocks]

Yes, go to Reddit. That's the place for fanboys. Everyone minds their karma and is awfully afraid of minuses, and this wonderful atmosphere produces a constant stream of information-free feel-good posts with screens and fluffy thoughts and "positivity", with only occasional dives into reality when Blizzard goof so bad that it becomes socially acceptable to point that out.

The problem that you and your other nasty dishonest friends on this forum can't seem to comprehend is that at the end of the day we are dealing with video games. Entertainment products for hobbyists who can enjoy and socialise around them. We aren't dealing with politics or discussing serious social issues but that still doesn't stop you and your chums from dragging the discourse into the sewers and nor does it keep you from insisting that the discussion should remain there in the depths of despair as you're doing right now. It's almost unbelieveable that someone should insist with a serious face that somehow a subreddit with positive vibes and feel-good posts as an escape from a world with so much real suffering and negativity is somehow a bad thing. Video games should be a haven and escape from the hard dealings life can bring us and yet you wish to bring that garbage into our games and communities as well. You show a stunning lack of understanding of where that line is that when one is unhappy with the game the answer is to simply walk away. There is little room at all for ANY negativity that is appropriate in video communities before you reach the point that you simply stop playing the game and walk away. Constructive critisicsm is wonderful and very welcome, inappropriate amounts of negativity is not and never will be.

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Good post.

You are a valued member of the community as well. Some people understand the nuances being discussed here while others do not. WoW is a complex game but not that complex if you have a good understanding of MMORPG gameplay.

Wrong, that poster is the very definition of a worthless toxic contributor and you're not far behind either.

[Deleted]

Yes, go to Reddit. That's the place for fanboys. Everyone minds their karma and is awfully afraid of minuses, and this wonderful atmosphere produces a constant stream of information-free feel-good posts with screens and fluffy thoughts and "positivity", with only occasional dives into reality when Blizzard goof so bad that it becomes socially acceptable to point that out.

This is an extremely accurate post.

Throughout beta, the WoW subreddit was overflowing with constant positivity and utterly intolerant of any criticisms whatsoever. As someone who posted there frequently about class gripes I had (my biggest problem with BfA even now despite the numerous other issues), getting downvoted was just an occupational hazard.

Then pre patch hit and it was fashionable to be negative.

Now BfA is out again, if you dare post that you don't like something - be prepared for it to be downvoted into oblivion where nobody will read it. Stick to pointless memes and childish nonsense on Reddit.

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Agree islands suck D. Warfronts are amazin. Azerite fun as hell when you get 340+ ones or 3 of same traits. Allied races the old ones are annoying for new players sure but the bfa ones are story related

Out of curiosity, what is it that you don't like about islands that you DO like about warfronts? Both are essentially nothing but grinding trash constantly for some goal. I say this having done the Arathi one about 10 times on beta.

[CogsNCocks]

This is an extremely accurate post.

Throughout beta, the WoW subreddit was overflowing with constant positivity and utterly intolerant of any criticisms whatsoever. As someone who posted there frequently about class gripes I had (my biggest problem with BfA even now despite the numerous other issues), getting downvoted was just an occupational hazard.

Then pre patch hit and it was fashionable to be negative.

Now BfA is out again, if you dare post that you don't like something - be prepared for it to be downvoted into oblivion where nobody will read it. Stick to pointless memes and childish nonsense on Reddit.

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Out of curiosity, what is it that you don't like about islands that you DO like about warfronts? Both are essentially nothing but grinding trash constantly for some goal. I say this having done the Arathi one about 10 times on beta.

A very dishonest characterization of the subreddit, there's plenty of upvoted constructive criticism going on there but the overrall vibe is that the game and community should still be a positive and enjoyable experience for all. The problem is that you and your chums think negativity = criticism. Constructive criticism is all about how you improve something to make it better so therefore constructive criticism is inherently positive. It's very telling of your mindset when you yourself just distinguished criticism as being different to something that is positive. If you think mindlessly trashing and complaining about everything is going to bring about change for the better you are going to be in for some hard lessons in life.

[cparle87]

I recommend migrating from these forums to Reddit. We already have the same people behaving the same way during Legion, complaining about "no content", 2 weeks into this expansion.
The same crowd will continue to complain in the same ways that they have been for half a decade or more by now, and still they keep giving Blizzard their money all the same... Like, being critical is fine, nobody likes EVERYTHING about a product, but claiming that the crowd of usual suspects on these forums are being constructively critical is to water down the term.

I'm awell aware of this. There was a post here on day three of the xpac with this Grade-A no lifer who had already hit 120, cleared all the M0s and gotten his expedition cap. And he was whining "this is it? where's the content blizz!?!?one111"

[rda]

A very dishonest characterization of the subreddit, there's plenty of upvoted constructive criticism going on there but the overrall vibe is that the game and community should still be a positive and enjoyable experience for all. The problem is that you and your chums think negativity = criticism. Constructive criticism is all about how you improve something to make it better so therefore constructive criticism is inherently positive. It's very telling of your mindset when you yourself just distinguished criticism as being different to something that is positive. If you think mindlessly trashing and complaining about everything is going to bring about change for the better you are going to be in for some hard lessons in life.

You are obviously new to systems with open karma. I suggest you just go and experience them for yourself, because you probably won't take anyone's word for how they function. If you post enough, you will see the effects clearly. (Now, you might characterize them as just "that particular subreddit is bad, but that doesn't mean that the entire system is bad, it's probably an exception" not seeing the forest for the trees, but even that would be a step forward already.)

Systems with open karma are dead-ends of social exchange. They seemed like such a great idea in late 90s but it became very apparent that they are irrepairably broken five-six years later and now it's just inertia and them being a good fit for useless chat which generates tons of monetizable traffic.

[CogsNCocks]

You are obviously new to systems with open karma. I suggest you just go and experience them for yourself, because you probably won't take anyone's word for how they function. If you post enough, you will see the effects clearly. (Now, you might characterize them as just "that subreddit is bad" not seeing the forest for the trees, but even that would be a step forward already.)

I've plenty of experience posting on reddit and it's karma system which does have issues at times but also some pluses such as posters of your ilk being downvoted into oblivion so people don't have to read your mindless whining that you mistankenly construe as being criticism. Assuming you've attempted to write the same rubbish on reddit as you do here, it's really not surprising that you haven't had such a good experience. You also failed to respond to my post I directed to you, so get to it big man.

[rda]

I've plenty of experience posting on reddit and it's karma system which does have issues at times but also some pluses such as posters of your ilk being downvoted into oblivion so people don't have to read your mindless whining that you mistankenly construe as being criticism. Assuming you've attempted to write the same rubbish on reddit as you do here, it's really not surprising that you haven't had such a good experience.

Dear CogsNCocks. I have several reddit accounts and some of them have tons upon tons of karma. That silly atmosphere is exploitable to the moon and back. The only problem is, these karma banks are boring. Real exchanges happen on forums without karma or on forums that have karma that everyone ignores.

[CogsNCocks]

Dear CogsNCocks. I have several reddit accounts and some of them have tons upon tons of karma. That silly atmosphere is exploitable to the moon and back. The only problem is, these karma banks are boring. Real exchanges happens on forums without karma.

Then do as I do and not care less about karma. Yeah you can post funny memes and sexy cosplays for easy karma, who cares?

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Island Expeditions take 10 minutes? Where? Especially heroic and mythic ones take a lot longer than that and reward hardly more. And there are a ton of WQ to do every day that reward big chunks of Azerite.

I want Island Expeditions to be worth the time. Right now they're not, they're useless, funless and mindless content which is a shame for one of the major features of this expansion.

400 is pathetic because it's the only reward you get, if at all.

They are a lot more fun playing as a PvP mode.

[rda]

Then do as I do and not care less about karma. Yeah you can post funny memes and sexy cosplays for easy karma, who cares?

OK, time to end this exchange it seems.

Which post of yours you want me to respond to? #317?

"It's almost unbelieveable that someone should insist with a serious face that somehow a subreddit with positive vibes and feel-good posts as an escape from a world with so much real suffering and negativity is somehow a bad thing." --- I am not saying it's a bad thing, fake positive atmosphere with happy faces upvoting "I think it's cool" and downvoting everything else are certainly good for something, just not for discussing games.

"Constructive critisicsm is wonderful and very welcome, inappropriate amounts of negativity is not and never will be." --- It seems to me that's just you at some point deciding that there is too much criticism with your arbitrary criteria of too much and then deciding to call that "inappropriate amounts of negativity". Everything I post on the game is about the game. I frequently say good things about it. It's not my fault I also have to frequently say bad things. You and "folks like you", on the other hand, mostly post about other posters. I think I have a leg up on you on this.

I believe this closes it.

[Chaelexi]

Just imagine you are the new player, who want to play some MMORPG. You look at WOW BFA trailers and description on WoW forum and see:
1)Join your friends to explore the dangerous places and fight other players on Island Expeditions.
2)Get your new, Allied Races.
3)Fight for your faction on Warfronts.
4)Customize your character via New Azerite System.

Right. All four features were the biggest selling points of BFA since Blizzcon.

Lets look at what we got.

Island Expeditions. Repetitive, boring, ultimately unrewarding. Some people like them, but the core of them is extremely raw and need much more work.

Allied Races. Unavailable until you do the content of the previous expansion. In other words, if you are new player and want to play Allied Race - be so kind and grind the rep for a couple weeks on, said, green-black landscapes of Argus while 95% of other people enjoy their vacation in Zandalar.

Warfronts. They weren't even released yet, but i assure you - its "once in a week" type of activity. In nature its an insignificant and forgettable feature you wont mind for a week after you done it.

Azerite System. Its a shit system.

So all in all, BFA falls flat when it comes to its main features. None of them in essence is well done or baked well.

1) Have you tried the PVP ones or are you playing the PVE ones only? the PVP ones are fun and until the Arena season starts you are missing key factors in it.
2) Dwarfs and Orcs will be available once you unlock them.....AKA play the game. The previous ones were rewards for people who played the previous xpac.
3) Warfronts are being released with the raids........
4) Azerite is an improved AP weapon system with set talents you can target.......it is an improvement on the previous system that gives you goals to target and rewards consistent play.......If anything BFA is the best Xpac since WotLK and possibly better than it(only can tell after raids are released).

[Mafic]

Warfronts isn't a key feature of this expansion...that is like saying the self patch was a key feature of WoD lol.

[Chaelexi]

Island Expeditions take 10 minutes? Where? Especially heroic and mythic ones take a lot longer than that and reward hardly more. And there are a ton of WQ to do every day that reward big chunks of Azerite.

I want Island Expeditions to be worth the time. Right now they're not, they're useless, funless and mindless content which is a shame for one of the major features of this expansion.

400 is pathetic because it's the only reward you get, if at all.

A guild group finishes a heroic on in 10 minutes easy if you are geared. Other than world quests, which have a limited volume, Island Expeditions are the fastest way to farm AP and will be even when M+ is released.