Hard, non timed 5 man content

[Deleted]

I posted this on the WoW forums. I think speed running and 5 man mythics should be separate parts of the game. They need different skill sets, speed running is about minimaxing dps and often cheesing mechanics, normal mythics (at least when people don't overgear them) require thinking. Not to say timed runs can't be hard.

Mythic0 is already easy for most people. My idea is to make mythic0 genuinely hard and award loot 5ilvs below heroic raid gear (because forming a raid is harder than forming a group). Make them as hard as heroic raids.

Have heroic dungeons have a timed options with all the affixes we know now. What would they drop? Maybe items that helped complete dungeons faster, cosmetic/mount rewards and at very high keys maybe some BiS gear that helps in raids.

Tl;dr just separate timed and untimed content, I hate that 5 man content is funnelled into speed running which in my opinion fosters elitism and ilv obsessing.

[Hero2Zer0]

i'd be up for mythic+ version where it wasn't a stress test on your tanks hp, your healers mana, and dps' cooldowns. I'd much rathar take my time than just plow through a mythic. The timed runs feel like i'm playing diablo and doing greater rifts.

[Kaeth]

Part of the reason that M+ has a time limit is to discourage the use of unconventional group compositions. With no clock ticking down, what's to prevent you from running three tanks and two healers?

[Nalorakk]

Something kind of like 5 man mage tower challenges?

That would be neato

[styil]

They are completely different concepts with completely different gameplay approaches and strategies, but getting that through to the sycophants on these forums makes getting blood from a rock sound a walk in the park. I personally enjoy taking my time, enjoying the adventure and developing strategies, not rushing through the content and mindlessly AoE'ing chain packs of mobs with all CD's up. But each to their own.

[Boricha]

I'd like to have back 5-mans similar to the difficulty of Cata dungeons, but I don't think it's a direction Blizz cares to pursue.

[FelPlague]

so you mean you want a place that brings 3 tanks and 2 healers or a place that runs a tank that can kite super well and a bunch of over long period dps like a affi lock. that or being required to wait for blood lust for every pull?

[Socialhealer]

Part of the reason that M+ has a time limit is to discourage the use of unconventional group compositions. With no clock ticking down, what's to prevent you from running three tanks and two healers?

like 1 tank 4 shaman, or a druid/rogue comp stealth it all.

pull to the first boss with all trash, wipe first ankh, ress others kill boss, repeat 3 more times = all 4 bosses down.

in before someone says no you need to clear a % of trash, lol now you're going back to mythic plus you can't just pick and choose all the bits you want from mythic plus, either run that or don't.

[Corroc]

If you go high enough with keys its not a speed run anymore. The time is just there so you have something to aim for better rewards, but you cant necassarily get those rewards because the key is just too hard.

[Jastall]

Part of the reason that M+ has a time limit is to discourage the use of unconventional group compositions. With no clock ticking down, what's to prevent you from running three tanks and two healers?

On top of that, the OP's system just kills M+ as the alternate, viable progression path that it is intended to be. And how do you keep these dungeons relevant anyway? People will grossly outgear them at some point or another, should they be scaled all the way through the end of the expansion?

I just don't think it's viable to have both flavors of dungeons. Blizzard had to make a choice, and the current M+ iteration was used because it is scalable and (apart from exceptional circumstances) forces a healthy 1 tank 1 heal 3 DPS composition. Besides, at higher keys M+ are hardly speedruns, you have to pull carefully or you get absolutely wrecked. The timer is there for the same reason Enrage is there in raids, it absolutely doesn't force you to speedrun like a madman since the loot changes.

[Ehrenpanzer]

Part of the reason that M+ has a time limit is to discourage the use of unconventional group compositions. With no clock ticking down, what's to prevent you from running three tanks and two healers?

Nothing. If you want to take 3 hours to clear a mythic+ I think you should be able to. Its just lazy design that every M+ is based on a timer system

[Spotnick]

What exactly stops you from running the key and not care about the timer? you still get loot.

[xcitng]

I'd like to have back 5-mans similar to the difficulty of Cata dungeons, but I don't think it's a direction Blizz cares to pursue.

Yeah blame the player base for that one, they all cried about the difficulty, now we are forever stuck with easy mode dungeons

OP: Way to easy to abuse to due comps, m+ is a perfect counter and a great addition to improving dungeons/increasing difficulty

[ChronoSul]

Nothing. If you want to take 3 hours to clear a mythic+ I think you should be able to. Its just lazy design that every M+ is based on a timer system

But you can spend three hours in a mythic + if you really feel like it all u lose is an extra piece of loot and the key doesn't go up. Which isnt as bad as the system that was in place at the start of legion. But u still get ur chest at the end of the week as long as you complete it.

[xcitng]

Nothing. If you want to take 3 hours to clear a mythic+ I think you should be able to. Its just lazy design that every M+ is based on a timer system

Nothing stops you from taking 3 hours to clear mythic+

[Nathasil]

Ever since they changed how keys don't get grey when you miss the timer...i think there was no point to having a timer at all.

Why not just disable the timer and leave everything else the same? If you finish the dungeon, no matter how long it takes, you get a key one level higher. If you don't finish it (=leave and reset or just leave and let it be shut down by timeout) you get a key one level lower. Just like it is now, but without a timer.

How exactly would that be "worse" than the current system?

People who want to speedrun will STILL have a huge advantage because they get more loot/time. People who want to show off can just complete the highest level they manage...just like it is now.

And people who manage to complete a dungeon after hours of trying who get a +1 stone they would not have gotten in the current system.....so what? They invested HOURS of their time...what are they going to do with a stone that will take them even longer to complete? Nothing that hurts anybody, that's for sure.

And speedrunning dungeons against each other for tournaments does NOT require the timer at all either, as NEVER both teams miss the timer. Not by a long shot. So the faster team wins. Who needs a timer for that?

Long story short: Nobody needs the timer on the current version of M+. Just remove it and let people burn days in one dungeon if they feel like it. What's the harm?

[Okacz]

Part of the reason that M+ has a time limit is to discourage the use of unconventional group compositions. With no clock ticking down, what's to prevent you from running three tanks and two healers?

What's preventing you to do that in raids tho? Try a boss with tanks/healers composition, any boss, you're dead meat. You need the sweet, precious DPS. How about trash? It's difficult in raids as well, and you don't see people swap to 5 tanks or something, usually not to waste time.

Same goes to Mythic difficulty. You can't (or shouldn't) beat a boss in 3t/2h composition. Trash with no DPS will also take forever to kill, discouraging you from trying. Works about the same. And if you really manage to struggle through a way-to-difficulty-for-you dungeon with such a team in like 3 hours? Well, props for your dedication, you probably earned something for it.

[TOM_RUS]

What exactly stops you from running the key and not care about the timer? you still get loot.

Key not being upgraded.

[Wondercrab]

I agree. Raiding has never had a speedrunning element and it's never needed one. I'd very much like to see dungeons following the same model, with the speedrunning version separated into its own unique thing. Timers are a good choice for a competitive mode, but they're absolutely not required for general PvE content.

[Ahlae]

I hate that M+ Are just bad greater rifts, and why I don't consume that content. I want to play WoW not Diablo.