Kul Tiras economy vs Zandalar economy

[Magnagarde]

Zandalar technically doesn't even need an economy, though they obviously have one. Kul Tiras clearly has an economy and it seems to have been hampered, what with all the things that transpired. All of that was set straight by the adventurer and Kul Tiras should be doing a lot better.

[Shadowtwili]

Zandalar technically doesn't even need an economy, though they obviously have one. Kul Tiras clearly has an economy and it seems to have been hampered, what with all the things that transpired. All of that was set straight by the adventurer and Kul Tiras should be doing a lot better.

Why doesn't Zandalar need an economy? I thought every nation, especially one that supports a great navy must have one?

[LazarusLong]

The Horde seizes Ashvanes stock of Azerite gunpowder in the Ashvane Docks, the Alliance seizes their ships and the pirate ships they equipped with Azerite weapons and the recipe for the refined Azerite gunpowder and the Ashvane Foundry.

We really need the timleine clarification, since the horde also gets the recipe and blows up the Foundry during the war campaign.

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Actually, it did. Long before the events of WarCraft 1, even. Where do you think that "blood plague" that devastated the Zandalari came from?

That would be the Hakkar Soulflayer. It is explained in the game "tablets".

[Nathreim]

Before the horde arrived the Zandalari had exclusive ties to the other troll tribes and that is it, their whole society isn't really build on money as we know it,

Thats untrue. They have ties to many different races you can see them selling their wares in the port. Vrykul, Ogres, Tortolen, Vulpira, Jinyu, Tuskarr, Hozen, and Grummles can all be found in the port selling things.

[cparle87]

The Zandalari Empire is meant to be a crumbling nation, and indeed the only city that they have left is Dazar'alor, and the surroundings are all scarred by war and infested by enemies. Whereas Kul Tiras is still a thriving and wealthy nation based on trade, so it makes sense that there are several farms, wharfs, mines and mills beyond the city of Boralus.

The only city they ever had was Dazar'alor. Nazmir was held by the blood trolls for thousands of years. The recent change was the Cataclysm took down the northern wall. Whereas before it was like China and the Great Wall vs Mongols if the wall actually worked. Vol'dun was where they shipped off their criminals to die. There were no actual Zandalari settlements outside Zuldazar.

[LazarusLong]

The only city they ever had was Dazar'alor. Nazmir was held by the blood trolls for thousands of years. The recent change was the Cataclysm took down the northern wall. Whereas before it was like China and the Great Wall vs Mongols if the wall actually worked. Vol'dun was where they shipped off their criminals to die. There were no actual Zandalari settlements outside Zuldazar.

You should really read quest texts more. Vol'dun was the jewel of the Empire for the example. Nazmir also was not like that, in fact Zandalari come from the Nazmir. It's only after the Hakkar summoning it's followers settled there.

[Combatbutler]

Thats untrue. They have ties to many different races you can see them selling their wares in the port. Vrykul, Ogres, Tortolen, Vulpira, Jinyu, Tuskarr, Hozen, and Grummles can all be found in the port selling things.

They literally tell you they just opened the port to outsiders. Except tortollans it is why you are send out to deal with trolls harassing these traders, because they don't want that change and you beat them into submission.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Shakedown

[Varodoc]

The only city they ever had was Dazar'alor. Nazmir was held by the blood trolls for thousands of years. The recent change was the Cataclysm took down the northern wall. Whereas before it was like China and the Great Wall vs Mongols if the wall actually worked. Vol'dun was where they shipped off their criminals to die. There were no actual Zandalari settlements outside Zuldazar.

So, basically, I'm not sure why the "City-state of Dazar'alor" is even still called the "Zandalari EMPIRE" in the first place. It is amazingly small for an empire. I have been to Zuldazar on my Horde alt, and literally the only Zandalari civilian settlement outside of the city is a village in the vines consisting of two huts.

[Amaterasu65]

Kul Tiras nation has presence in all 3 areas, while the Zandalari have just Dazar'alor.

The Order of Embers with Lucille as the new Waycrest head vanquished Gorak Tul's forces. Stormsong Valley was rid of the corrupted tidesages and Lord Stormsong, while Tiragarde was never that threatened, apart from the pirates and some small old god and wicked presence.

Zandalari "Empire" only holds influence in Zuldazar from what I've gathered. Vol'dun seems like a wasteland inhabited by exiles and Sethrak, while Nazmir is a huge nope area if you care for your life.

I guess Drustvar is close to Nazmir in terms of evil presence, but while Drustvar is supposedly ongoing cleansing, I do not know how Nazmir ends up. Even if Nazmir was rid of the G'huun influence and the blood trolls, would it be inhabitable?

Despite Kul Tiras being in better standing than Zandalar, both Vol'dun and Nazmir give off that dangerous and threatening aura, especially to the Alliance players who enter the area after questing in (mostly) lighter areas. Nazmir really feels like a max level area of the likes of Icecrown, Shadowmoon and Dread Wastes.

I still love the aesthetics of Kul Tiras over Zandalar though.

[Zulkhan]

The Zandalari nation is contained in one zone but appears more solid and powerful in its own domain, surely the power is much more centralized than it is in Kul Tiras, a nation divided in several houses and that founds itself dependent to the services offerred by these individual and partially independent powers.

They seem to have favor of writers who think that no deus ex machina is bad enough.

It's dat human potential mon. Never fuck with the potential of humans.

[Kwento]

So, basically, I'm not sure why the "City-state of Dazar'alor" is even still called the "Zandalari EMPIRE" in the first place. It is amazingly small for an empire. I have been to Zuldazar on my Horde alt, and literally the only Zandalari civilian settlement outside of the city is a village in the vines consisting of two huts.

Yeah! Absolutely!
And Thrall has been literally sitting on the throne for several years straight! That is suspicious...
It’s a game with limitations. If it’s not obvious that the sizes of ingame areas aren’t the same as they should be lorewise, I don’t know what to say...
Zuldazar isn’t enormous, but it is big. There are no farmlands that we ever saw in there. Does that mean that trolls just don’t eat? Nope, it means that it didn’t fit into the map, or was just forgotten, even though still mentioned here and there. There’s no mining villages so tye gold their city is made out of grew on trees? Nope, but logically speaking there *would* be mines, no?
Apart from all of that, we know that Zandalari have presence across many isles in the surrounding ocean, it is very possible that they simply count them as their own territories. But that’s just a speculation.

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It's dat human potential mon. Never fuck with the potential of humans.

Unless you are a Windrunner. Then you have to.

[Varodoc]

Yeah! Absolutely!
And Thrall has been literally sitting on the throne for several years straight! That is suspicious...
It’s a game with limitations. If it’s not obvious that the sizes of ingame areas aren’t the same as they should be lorewise, I don’t know what to say...
Zuldazar isn’t enormous, but it is big. There are no farmlands that we ever saw in there. Does that mean that trolls just don’t eat? Nope, it means that it didn’t fit into the map, or was just forgotten, even though still mentioned here and there. There’s no mining villages so tye gold their city is made out of grew on trees? Nope, but logically speaking there *would* be mines, no?
Apart from all of that, we know that Zandalari have presence across many isles in the surrounding ocean, it is very possible that they simply count them as their own territories. But that’s just a speculation.

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Unless you are a Windrunner. Then you have to.

Good lord, maintain your composure, There is no reason to get so aggressive towards me when I didn't even say anything offensive.

[Kwento]

Good lord, maintain your composure, There is no reason to get so aggressive towards me when I didn't even say anything offensive.

Aggressive..?
I didn’t mean it to feel like a personal attack. Sorry if you took it that way.

[Zandalariprelate]

I dont know why people keep arguing about who is the bigger guy when most of the stuff we have see so far will end with two options

1) Both fleets are completly destroyed or a few ships managed to escape for the najaztar/nzoth zone in the incoming patch

2) Azshara attacks both flee in the middle of the battle so both factions will have reasons to go after her(hope if they pull this, is because Azshara wants us to follow her to N'zoth lair and finish him off or weak him enough for her to pull a leishen and consume his power)

[Zulkhan]

Aggressive..?
I didn’t mean it to feel like a personal attack. Sorry if you took it that way.

Everything's a personal attack when someone have no worthy reply to share.

[Magnagarde]

Why doesn't Zandalar need an economy? I thought every nation, especially one that supports a great navy must have one?

They have the loa which bless them with various things other nations need to worry about a lot more. It's like a teocratic monarchy in which the ruling bloodline is tied to a loa. Also note the word 'technically' because it could - technically - go on without one, which doesn't mean they don't have or need one.

For example, Stormwind can't make the crops grow in Westfall by calling on the loa to bring rain and crops. They have to fight the harsh conditions through work, irigation and the fact that they're taking their chances. The Zandalari on the other hand can have their priests handle crops with as little labour force as possible. The priests aren't being paid for their prayers; they are not the owners of the lands they pray for and neither are the trolls that work those fields. The food is quite possibly distributed fairly among the various citizen, with no need for trade. In that sense, Zandalar is a self-sustained teocratic monarchy which has an unconventional economy that vastly differs from almost every other nation out there.

When it comes to the outward projection of the Zandalar society, then they obviously do need to have a more conventional economy because trade with other races includes either an exchange of goods or direct payments to either side.

[Omians]

a lot of In-game locations don't fully reflect their Lore counterparts. ( stormwind comes to mind) . I do think the Zandalari need to rebuild a lot of their ports. a lot of Coastal cities and ports got destroyed or sunk from the Cataclysm. Nazwatha in Nazmir looked to be a pretty sizeable Port but alot of it is ether ruined or underwater if you go poking around and look.

In the Zuldazar region of the map if you look around the west side of the map there is a sizable Gulf with the ruins of another Zandalari Port. ( currently being used for a Tortollan wedding. Warport Rastari is still there but its being occupied by the Mogu so that can be reclaimed and used to make more ships


Ship wise the Zandalari most likely have a lot out at sea that need to be wrangled back in but the means to make more ships they need more ports.

[cparle87]

So, basically, I'm not sure why the "City-state of Dazar'alor" is even still called the "Zandalari EMPIRE" in the first place. It is amazingly small for an empire. I have been to Zuldazar on my Horde alt, and literally the only Zandalari civilian settlement outside of the city is a village in the vines consisting of two huts.

It's a rump state. Prior to the rise of the kaldorei empire the Zandalari basically ruled the entire world. It's kinda like how Byzantium still called themselves the Byzanite Empire even though at some points they only controlled Constantinople and a tiny area around it.

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You should really read quest texts more. Vol'dun was the jewel of the Empire for the example. Nazmir also was not like that, in fact Zandalari come from the Nazmir. It's only after the Hakkar summoning it's followers settled there.

I'm talking about in the present, I can see my typo. I meant to say the only city they have now. You're right about Vol'dun, but that was also thousands of years ago. For thousands of years they've been restricted to Zuldazar.

[Ramz]

Kul Tiras nation has presence in all 3 areas, while the Zandalari have just Dazar'alor.

The Order of Embers with Lucille as the new Waycrest head vanquished Gorak Tul's forces. Stormsong Valley was rid of the corrupted tidesages and Lord Stormsong, while Tiragarde was never that threatened, apart from the pirates and some small old god and wicked presence.

Zandalari "Empire" only holds influence in Zuldazar from what I've gathered. Vol'dun seems like a wasteland inhabited by exiles and Sethrak, while Nazmir is a huge nope area if you care for your life.

I guess Drustvar is close to Nazmir in terms of evil presence, but while Drustvar is supposedly ongoing cleansing, I do not know how Nazmir ends up. Even if Nazmir was rid of the G'huun influence and the blood trolls, would it be inhabitable?

Despite Kul Tiras being in better standing than Zandalar, both Vol'dun and Nazmir give off that dangerous and threatening aura, especially to the Alliance players who enter the area after questing in (mostly) lighter areas. Nazmir really feels like a max level area of the likes of Icecrown, Shadowmoon and Dread Wastes.

I still love the aesthetics of Kul Tiras over Zandalar though.

I wouldn't say that Kul'Tiras situation is that much better Drustvar is still infested in witches and the only paint that is remotely safe is that passage atop the mountain. It will likely take time to cleanse it similar to Nazmir. I believe that the moment is taken down the major power up for blood trolls will stop. With Bwonsamdi now elevated on top I'm sure he will demand crusade against blood trolls and with Talanji I'm sure it will likely come.

G'huun was responsible for spreading rot. the moment he is out nothing stops to cleanse the area entierly. But that is a process for years. Trolls are good architects and were already shown to use aqueducts. With the right management Nazmir can be salvaged to be a decent place to live.

The reason why Vol'dun became desert was beceause Sethrallis died, but now she is back. I don't claim that Vol'dun will stop being a desert but this place might become more bearable to live, and likely coastline will be good enough to manage it.
The ruins on the south still have good water network running, as once you fix the fountains the water keeps on flowing.

Stormsong still received heavy blows, and so did Boralus so I wouldn't say that KT is that much better off.
And when I looked on territory of KT Majority of it are mountains. Tiragarde Sound is much smaller than Zuldazar on Map.

[Jastall]

Kul Tiras nation has presence in all 3 areas, while the Zandalari have just Dazar'alor.

The Order of Embers with Lucille as the new Waycrest head vanquished Gorak Tul's forces. Stormsong Valley was rid of the corrupted tidesages and Lord Stormsong, while Tiragarde was never that threatened, apart from the pirates and some small old god and wicked presence.

Zandalari "Empire" only holds influence in Zuldazar from what I've gathered. Vol'dun seems like a wasteland inhabited by exiles and Sethrak, while Nazmir is a huge nope area if you care for your life.

I guess Drustvar is close to Nazmir in terms of evil presence, but while Drustvar is supposedly ongoing cleansing, I do not know how Nazmir ends up. Even if Nazmir was rid of the G'huun influence and the blood trolls, would it be inhabitable?

Despite Kul Tiras being in better standing than Zandalar, both Vol'dun and Nazmir give off that dangerous and threatening aura, especially to the Alliance players who enter the area after questing in (mostly) lighter areas. Nazmir really feels like a max level area of the likes of Icecrown, Shadowmoon and Dread Wastes.

I still love the aesthetics of Kul Tiras over Zandalar though.

I assume Nazmir could become inhabitable over time once G'huun is slain. He was the source of its primary danger, the Blood Trolls, and probably corrupted the area to some other extent. With him killed and the bloods routed, I don't see why the Zandalari couldn't eventually start draining the marshes and re-establish some of the cities, especially those on the coast. Especially since Bwonsamdi is now signing the royalty's checks and would probably like more activity around his lands, and Talanji's expedition has ensured the Zandalari now know the lay of the land. The heartland around Uldir is probably too corrupted to hope for a recovery however.

Similarly, Vol'dun started becoming a desert once Sethraliss died. Its Avatar is now back online and Mythrax is dead, so it is possible that some reclamation could happen over time, albeit it wouldn't possibly be within the game's timeframe.