So alliance is using necromancy now ?

[Doffen]

Light touch... Heavy touch, it doesn't matter. What Anduin did to Calia was wrong and a violation of her person. Maybe we should start calling Anduin the Lich King.

Why not. Lichuin got a nice ring to it.

[Irian]

Generic NPC casting a spell in a war vs the Leader of the Horde bombing and reanimating her own people against their will. Hmm...
Also, the Vengeful Spirits by the name itself are not being controlled by any means. Those spirits wanted to kill you and still do. Necromancy on a willing target to keep fighting past death is way more morally sensible than what Sylvanas did.

Stop grasping at straws, OP's message is ridiculously flawed and riddled with more holes than swiss cheese.

Light touch... Heavy touch, it doesn't matter. What Anduin did to Calia was wrong and a violation of her person. Maybe we should start calling Anduin the Lich King.

He did so at the behest of a Naaru, not on his own. And she wasn't exactly unhappy about it from what little we got to see.

It's really not the same. You can't just say "reanimating the dead is bad so everyone is bad" as a blanket rule unless you're just trying to win some kind of silly internet argument about which imaginary faction is more morally bankrupt in a video game designed to try and push both factions to hate each other.

[Mirishka]

So there is a funny thing i noticed in stormgarde warfront. After you progress a bit, some of alliance priests will cast a spell on friendly corpses summoning "Vengenful spirits" who attack horde.

So my question is - is this necromancy ? is it "This is totally not necromancy"ancy ? Maybe its "Its ok if alliance are doing it"ancy.

Because as it is, it seems to be exact same move sylvanas used in battle for undercity. And she is soooo evil.

How convenient that you omit the teeny, tiny detail that the horde corpses she res'd were the ones she created by plague-bombing her own people.

(by 'own people' I mean, the Horde. Not literally her fellow Forsaken)

[gaymer77]

Basically according to Alliance players, if something is done by the Alliance then it is "for the good" even if that means slaughtering innocent people or raising the dead while when the Horde does it it is "evil beyond belief".

[Arrashi]

How convenient that you omit the teeny, tiny detail that the horde corpses she res'd were the ones she created by plague-bombing her own people.

And how is that related to using or not using undead cannon fodder ?

[Jastall]

However you try and spin it, when you boil it down to the basics the Alliance did exactly what they slammed Sylvanas for doing at Lordaeron - raising the dead without their consent to continue fighting against the enemy. It's that simple, period. Focusing on any other details other than this are strawmans and deflections, kinda like the ones you've used here. I'm so glad Blizzard have included this in the game, it just shows the Alliance can be as shady as the Horde when the circumstances call for it.

Who says it is against their consent? Do you have a source for that, especially since these are labeled as spirits of vengeance, which implies an intent?

Furthermore, that's not equivalent to forcing your enemies to fight their former comrades, nor killing your own troops before raising them.

[Logwyn]

Light touch... Heavy touch, it doesn't matter. What Anduin did to Calia was wrong and a violation of her person. Maybe we should start calling Anduin the Lich King.

Throw the banshee queen in the same pile...light it...and watch them both burn and I'll agree.

[Zandalariprelate]

Light touch... Heavy touch, it doesn't matter. What Anduin did to Calia was wrong and a violation of her person. Maybe we should start calling Anduin the Lich King.

How dare you to insult Arthas like that!

P.D: This post escalated very quickly

[Seylene]

I hope they use this to spark a reminder that the Night elves have access to Avatar of Vengeance spell, it would be a nice touch to summon the spirits of Teldrassil back to vent their rage on the horde and cleanse their way through Kalimdor. Also kind of a light chuckle to use spirits against Sylvanas.

[Maleific]

Necromancy is raising a corpse under the control of the necromancer. The way the Alliance Priests are going about in Arathi is that they release the spirit of the fallen from their body under their own free will.

So Arthas tearing Sylvanas' soul out of her body wasn't necromancy? Okay then.

[cparle87]

Necromancy in wow seems to always be related to raising a body, not the spirit. It seems like a priest thing to do, they even have spirit of redemption.

Say that to banshee Sylvanas. I think she'd disagree with you.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

If the Alliance is playing nice, Hordies are calling them nancies.

If the Alliance is playing rough, Hordies are calling them hypocrites or whatever.


Because of that stupid reasoning, the vocal modern Horde community is officially meme'd as toxic and immature. This is the exact same contradictive argument a teenager bully would use.

Amen brother!

[Verdugo]

If the Alliance is playing nice, Hordies are calling them nancies.

If the Alliance is playing rough, Hordies are calling them hypocrites or whatever.


Because of that stupid reasoning, the vocal modern Horde community is officially meme'd as toxic and immature. This is the exact same contradictive argument a teenager bully would use.

Nah I dont consider Alliance as a faction to be hypocrites. I am actualy ok with Alliance embracing necromancy like this.



Alliance posters on the other hand...

[Deleted]

Who says it is against their consent? Do you have a source for that, especially since these are labeled as spirits of vengeance, which implies an intent?

Furthermore, that's not equivalent to forcing your enemies to fight their former comrades, nor killing your own troops before raising them.

The sticking point at the Battle of Lordaeron was that Sylvanas was raising her own troops to fight again, that's all everybody was outraged about. Now we see the Alliance doing it at Stromgarde with spirits for the exact same purpose, now the goalposts have suddenly changed and it's "Ah but Sylvanas did it with Alliance troops and forced them to fight their own people". Funny how that was never a point for debate before, but now the Alliance have been seen employing the same tactic and no longer have the moral highground to hide behind the criteria change again so they can keep it.

What does intent matter when you cannot prove it anymore than I can disprove it? It's an irrelevant sticking point that results in nothing but a stalemate. Just citing their name as the sole evidence for their intentions is weak, because it is based entirely on the assumption that the bodies Sylvanas rose did not have intent - something neither of us can prove or disprove either way because we're not mind readers of a bunch of pixels in a fantasy game. What we do know is that being re-risen as an undead can completely change that person from who they were in life, so how can you say that those risen Alliance soldiers were not fighting their former comrades of their own free will regardless of their former allegiances? You cannot. Neither can I. Neither can anyone. Which is my whole point - it's a moot argument because nobody can prove or disprove anything. It's all rooted in assumptions, which means it cannot be used as a sticking point to distinguish the Alliance from the Horde in this case.

All that we're left with then are the bare bones (excuse the pun) of what we see with our own eyes - that the Alliance rose people from the dead to fight again. That's all we definitely see, that's all we can definitely know. Anything else is entirely rooted in assumption, especially with complex concepts such as "intent" and "free will" So, when just looked at on the most fundamental level based on what we actually see, and therefore know, there is no fundamental difference between what the Alliance do at Stromgarde to what Sylvanas did at Lordaeron.

[Nathasil]

The actual reason why this spell works this way is because Blizzard designed both the NPCs that fight alongside the player and those who fight against the player as Horde NPCs first, since obviously the current Dev team just does not like looking at Alliance NPCs while designing content.

So they gave the Undead Horde Priests a very fitting necro ability.

And when the time came they had to swap the models with the Alliance ones they thought: "Do we really give enough of a fuck about the Alliance to change this spell?"

And we all know the answer.

[Dellis0991]

We got warlocks and void elves too so I say there's no holds barred :P

^The gloves are off Arrashi! Who know what else they start doing....like putting cream in their coffee....madness! Pure madness!

[Felixon]

So there is a funny thing i noticed in stormgarde warfront. After you progress a bit, some of alliance priests will cast a spell on friendly corpses summoning "Vengenful spirits" who attack horde.

So my question is - is this necromancy ? is it "This is totally not necromancy"ancy ? Maybe its "Its ok if alliance are doing it"ancy.

Because as it is, it seems to be exact same move sylvanas used in battle for undercity. And she is soooo evil.

The spirit healer is a necromancer?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Actually no - Vengeful Spirits are spirits who are angry that they cannot move on after having died so they take out their anger. Saying they had a "bone to pick" is just a massive assumption and headcanon to try and make the distinction between consenting to be raised and not consenting so as to excuse what the Alliance are doing. Bottom line is, a corpse cannot consent because *shock* they are dead - so when the spirit is raised they have been done so against their will and, in this case, being used as fodder to defend against the enemy. There is actually NO difference, deal with it I don't get it - so many Alliance players have been saying they wanna see their faction get darker and less compromising and being more ruthless and grey. Then, when they are seen to actually do it, now we're seeing people making any excuse they can so they're not seen that way. I don't get it...

The problem is this isn’t the alliance getting any darker they already have dk’s.

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This has always made no friggin sense lore wise.

Why would it not make sense the argent dawn said they were on the up and up then they were set on suicide missions because no one likes them still.

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Here’s some real world citations for clarification: 1) Raising spirits is necromancy
2) Raised spirits are typically raised against their free will, hence why it is dangerous practice
3) Compare this to what was happening in Stromgarde

No, I don’t actually believe in any of this crap but people wanted definitions and clarifications so here’s some to get started. I’ll get my popcorn...

Real world sources are useless and not comparable at all to wow where there are many ways to interact with spirits other then just necromancy.

[Deleted]

Real world sources are useless and not comparable at all to wow where there are many ways to interact with spirits other then just necromancy.

I was using that as a starting point for discussion so people actually had some kind of definition to go on being as the WoW equivalent is apparently lacking. Unless you have some solid Warcraft lore than definitively spells out the difference between in-game necromancy and real world necromancy?

[Astalnar]

We got warlocks and void elves too so I say there's no holds barred :P

And still the Alliance claims the moral highground while playing in the same mud as its Horde counterparts. Horde at least is honest about it.