Teachers Substandard Pay - Solution

[Deleted]

Welcome to the Amazon school of ____________.

I honestly do think this is a likely future for education in the US.

[Kokolums]

Welcome to the Amazon school of ____________.

We might go back to a one room schoolhouse format. Something simple and inexpensive just for the rudiment of classroom tasks. But nothing pricey and the bulk is done at home on the internet.

[Crissi]

We might go back to a one room schoolhouse format. Something simple and inexpensive just for the rudiment of classroom tasks. But nothing pricey and the bulk is done at home on the internet.

Given that would dramatically shift the burden to the parents, its unlikely. That would require at least 1 parent to stay home, unless the kid is put in some sort of care center. Like... a schoolhouse.

[Deleted]

Welcome to the Amazon school of ____________.

great idea, if we can get kids on kindles aged 5 we can start the mass data collection on them early and then follow them for the rest of thier lives allowing for better gosplanning.

#nukebezos

[Machismo]

Renters pay property taxes via rent because the landlord includes it as part of the cost of the property and passes it on to the renter.



It could be because the public hears more about Teachers going on strike about pay, and benefits more than they do about Police and Military personnel.

If you ask me the worst abusers of pensions are other public officials, Congressman, Judges, some state/federal employees. You know the ones we hear about cashing in years of unused sick/vacation time. The ones making $80k a month in pensions.

Yes, if it were up to me, I'd get rid of all publicly-funded pensions. Congressmen often get it, even after a single term. If you look at PA state police, they get like 90% of their max salary (average of highest 3 years), and they get to include overtime pay.

The military is just more noticeable, because I was in, and I saw guys start collecting 50% pay before their 40th birthdays. Many military retirees will make more in retirement (as a total), than they did their entire careers.

[ToZion]

Teachers are over paid with stupid crazy retirement plans and tons of days off, that's why you don't have a teacher shortage. The three best reasons to be a teacher is June, July, and August.

This is the definition of having an opinion on something you know nothing about. Stick to complaining about WoW.

Teacher retirement system taxes more than federal and you can't opt out. No, you have no choice whether that 300+ comes out of your check even if you already contribute to an IRA or 403B. Teachers work 9month contract. Pay is just spread over 12 months. Teachers do not get paid over the summer in the way you think. There are many teacher shortages. Do your research. In South Louisiana, they were hiring nurses to fill teaching positions. Where I am, teachers are REQUIRED to attend summer professional development. So dude, please know what you're talking about before you talk about it.

[Nynax]

OT:
Schools are funded by the state and local levels, Defense is funded at Federal levels. Stop making asshole ignorant statements about what gets funded and where when they aren't even the same money pools.

Very accurate statement. However, it's also possible for the Fed to provide grants to specific state programs when need arises. Such as part of a major initiative to improve education across the country. So the "defense spending" argument is also not entirely wrong.

In general though, public perception has been way to focused on what the Fed does, while demanding lower and lower local/property taxes...which is usually what funds schools.

The irony is that the arguments for low property taxes in the hopes of encouraging affordable housing, tend to have the double edge sword of destroying education budgets.

[Animalhouse]

Well, I cannot comment on all teachers but where I work the teachers make $42k a year to start and they only work 9 months a year! If they work summer school then they can make $10k over the summer, summer school is only 4 days a week and some weeks in between there is no school at all. They are off ALL the damn time for every little thing. Seems like every other week they are off a day for one reason or another. I personally like this as I can finally get some peace and quiet but teachers have it made here. This is at high school level btw.

Again, I don't know how it is everywhere but I have no sympathy for teachers in this state. I have spoke with several teachers who have resigned and went to public schools and they make the same or better. So maybe teachers need to move to ND.

[Nihilist74]

I supposed it depends on what state they teach in. I can imagine a state like Oklahoma or other southern states cheaping out on teachers pay. In my home state, the average pay for teachers is 50k a year. Considering they do not have to work in the summer and holidays, seems like good enough pay. I would rather that education money was spent on hiring a larger amount of teachers than paying teachers more money. I would rather they hire a larger amount of teachers for a lower student to teacher ratio.

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2018/04/...ries-colorado/

[petej0]

The irony is that the arguments for low property taxes in the hopes of encouraging affordable housing, tend to have the double edge sword of destroying education budgets.

Which is why townships love senior communities. They get the property tax revenues without the added burden of more students. Which is why we need to change the funding model so that we can offer good quality affordable housing without fucking up education budgets.

[Dwarfhamster]

Do like in Singapore--pay teachers a good wage, require they take 100 hours of training each year, and hold them accountable for their students' education. Expect a lot of the investment the government puts into them.

[Unholyground]

Take 1%-4% per pay from everyone rich or low income and anywhere in between and redistribute it evenly every month. Problem solved and I would gladly do that in a heartbeat.

[Zyky]

It also doesn't help much that most students are coddled, opinionated, arrogant little shits that have more rights than the teachers and would rather start silly arguments and waste time on their social media idiocy than actually study. Its a vicious cycle, the teacher doesnt care so why should they care and so on.

Teachers are at risk, not to mention if a student assaults or causes harm to a teacher, the teach is still at fault and harassed by the school system. Last year a family friend, who teaches 1st grade, was tripped in the lunch room. She hit her head on a lunch table and twisted her ankle, doctors told her to stay up 2 weeks to recover and gave her the note saying so as well. The school system told her to be back on the 4th day or pack her things and not return.

That is pretty bad. I was making 30k working part time at Oracle while going to school full time in 1980s.

My mother just recently quit teaching after 17 years to pursue a more specialized field of education, with private practices. She has a Masters in ESL and a Doctorate in Math, she was making $62,000 a year before taxes. People don't understand what the public education system is like, they think all teachers are bad, but the truth is most of them are burnt out of being underpaid and overworked and they either spend their life miserable teaching and losing the passion after a few years, get married to someone who makes good money and doesn't have to worry about the stress, or leave the field and use their education experience to get a job in the private sector or work with specialized schools.

- - - Updated - - -

Do like in Singapore--pay teachers a good wage, require they take 100 hours of training each year, and hold them accountable for their students' education. Expect a lot of the investment the government puts into them.

They do require a minimum set of hours every 4 years to renew your teaching licence. If I'm not mistaken it's like 250 hours during those 4 years. The problem is most of the in-services never see use because they don't fit the programs that districts are forcing onto teachers and the pay doesn't equal the amount of work and effort they require of teachers.

[Adam Jensen]

Teachers are over paid with stupid crazy retirement plans and tons of days off, that's why you don't have a teacher shortage. The three best reasons to be a teacher is June, July, and August.

In what bizarro world do you live in where teachers are "overpaid?"

[ToZion]

In what bizarro world do you live in where teachers are "overpaid?"

He still hates his teachers.

[cubby]

I supposed it depends on what state they teach in. I can imagine a state like Oklahoma or other southern states cheaping out on teachers pay. In my home state, the average pay for teachers is 50k a year. Considering they do not have to work in the summer and holidays, seems like good enough pay. I would rather that education money was spent on hiring a larger amount of teachers than paying teachers more money. I would rather they hire a larger amount of teachers for a lower student to teacher ratio.

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2018/04/...ries-colorado/

I don't agree 50k is enough. And the "summers off along with holidays" is more myth than reality. Teachers also work more than 40 hours a week - usually 50-60.

However, I do agree with you about hiring more teachers. Getting the student/teacher ratio down is key. Very good idea.

- - - Updated - - -

He still hates his teachers.

He's still being taught?

His short diatribe (can you have that?) is just more of the same i-don't-care-to-learn-the-issues bs. It's too bad we have to put up with it, but in every discussion there are plenty of those.

[daytonbrown]

I agree they have an important job, but they only work 185 work days a year. I would kill for that. They have summers off, multiple other bs weeks off during the year like christmas-new years week, spring break, mid-winter break etc. And a bloated retirement package with a lifetime pension. Most private sector jobs only give 2 weeks vacation plus the 13 federal holidays off for the whole year.

If teachers want more money, they can get a part time job during all that time off they have.

[Crissi]

I agree they have an important job, but they only work 185 work days a year. I would kill for that. They have summers off, multiple other bs weeks off during the year like christmas-new years week, spring break, mid-winter break etc. And a bloated retirement package with a lifetime pension. Most private sector jobs only give 2 weeks vacation plus the 13 federal holidays off for the whole year.

If teachers want more money, they can get a part time job during all that time off they have.

Most good teachers work during their time off to create lesson plans, grade, train, and do summer school though...

unless you want lazy teachers.

[frogger237]

Fuck no. Teacher salaries fit median wages for their respective states. That seems fair enough for me.

Most parents can't deal with their own kids for 8 hours a day for four days. Now times that by 30.

Plus since most schools can't afford coaches and stuff they require teachers to do alot of after school stuff.

[Ashetaka]

Teachers are over paid with stupid crazy retirement plans and tons of days off, that's why you don't have a teacher shortage. The three best reasons to be a teacher is June, July, and August.

There's a national teacher shortage of over 88,000 currently. It's not uncommon for 1/3rd of a school's teaching staff to be temporary unqualified employees on an emergency intern credential. Why are June and August a good reason to be a teacher? I'm a public school teacher and I work both those months. Maybe you should talk about things you know about. Perhaps the optimal angle of examining your navel.

All teacher base salary is 75% of median income for the school district they work for with a floor of 50% of the state median income. Retirement is 401k type contribution plan with employer match up to 5%.

The ultimate goal is for students to graduate with some minimum knowledge/skill level so bonus structures should be set up based on this. Students must pass at grade level in standardized testing for each level of primary education - elementary (grades 1 thru 5), middle (grades 6 thru 8) and high (grades 9 thru 12) - in order to graduate to the next level.

So you want the floor for teacher's salary to be half of the middle income which is already those without a bachelor's degree. Only 32% of the country has a bachelor's degree which means you want to pay teachers half as much as people with less education. GREAT plan. We already have these retirement plans. 8% of my salary is deducted by the STRS retirement plan. That's something that's missed by these posters who complain about our lucrative retirement plans. We pay into them a significant chunk of our salaries. We also already have the option of contributing to 403b's, the public sector equivalent of a 401k plan. Your solution only divests the retirement plan from one pool into numerous smaller pools by independent financial managing firms. There's no evidence this is a superior solution.

Then you want to give teachers who work at schools with high income students and stable households even more money that teachers without those unfair advantages. EXTRA great plan. If only we knew what that looked like. Oh wait, we do. It was NCLB, the policy widely credited with making the U.S. have the worst education system in the developed world.

Fuck no. Teacher salaries fit median wages for their respective states. That seems fair enough for me.

So you admit teachers are paid less than people with substantially less education and still think it's "fair." Your definition of "fairness" seems a little off when you're requiring someone to achieve a higher standard of education than the median for the same or less pay. I take a paycut of around 40% to do my job. I've already been offered 6 positions in private sector that would increase my salary by $35,000 a year. One of the jobs I turned down would be seven figures in four years. I do this because it's a calling, not for the money. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people like you chomping at the bit to exploit my generosity. That's why many teachers don't care about their jobs anymore.

My wife is a teacher. Training is usually not a requirement during summer time, but when it is they get paid for it. Most districts/ schools don't open the schools for teachers to come into their classrooms until pretty close to the school year. They are not getting paid for any time they put in during the summer time if it's not on the "official" calendar for paid work days. Summer school is a mostly voluntary (100% voluntary, unless not enough people volunteer, at which point someone is getting voluntold to do it to meet the quota).

I have no idea what district your wife works in where she's paid for job training. I have 7 teachers in my family in 7 districts and 4 counties. Counting friends and colleagues, we know people teaching in 7 states. None of us get paid for our summer training. The most "compensation" we get is hours of district credit towards movement across the salary schedule. In my district this is capped at 8 credits per move when you need 15 credits to move over. In other words, it's impossible to get a pay raise EVER from exclusively doing summer PDs. My family friends in places like Oklahoma don't even get PD credit for advancement, it's a district mandate. That's before you get to the fact that there's a hard limit, usually hit very early, on how many raises you can get from PD. Good for you if your wife is getting paid for her summer PDs, but it's totally unheard of.

Some of the conservative posters just have me scratching my head. It's astounding to me for example that @Trust Trader Mittens doesn't understand that compensation attracts talents and somehow thinks keeping teacher wages low compared to people with similar education level (on the order of like a 20% paycut, 40% in math and science). When you underpay your staff, you get bad staff.