Vol'jin an lich king.

[eurojust]

Arthas put the helmet on with the Lich King's permission... Unless you are going to try to declare that the Rise of the Lich King novel is non-canon (which would be laughable, since you do not have the power to do so), Ner'zhul did not take over his body. That novel wasn't third party accounts of things that people in universe assume happened, it was a word-of-god account of the events that resulted in Arthas himself becoming the dominant personality of the Lich King. The only thing it isn't clear on is whether or not Arthas actually destroyed Ner'zhul's spirit, Arthas "killed" him in the dream the same way he killed Matthias Lehner, but Matthias was still around for us to find later, which to me says the Ner'zhul just went dormant after Arthas became dominant... With Arthas now dead and the helm passing to a new owner, Ner'zhul could be playing the long game, slowly and subtly corrupting Bolvar as his new host.

The writers already stated that Ner'Zhul and Arthas were gone for good.

[Deleted]

lol why is everyone in this thread bitching about human potential as if bolvars power fuckin comes from within or some cheesy fucking captain planet feel good bullshit?

did everyone just retroactively forget the lich kings powers came from one of the strongest beings in the cosmos 2nd only to the dark titan himself and his weapons and armor were forged by the nathrezim?

if bolvar somehow does something to someone it isnt because hes fucking human, its because hes the god damn lich king like wtf

M8.
Bolvar is the sole being at the moment who 1. has a strong connection to the light 2. survived the blight long enough 3. survived the red dragonflight cleanse fire (literally has fire running through his veins) 4. withstood Arthas tortures 5. weaves the LK powers.
U know why ?
Human potential

[Synros]

Bolvar is Bwomsandi's boss I'm guessing.

Edit: Looks like Bwomsandi helps us escape Bolvar. So if Bolvar did somehow subjugate him, Bwomsandi isn't on his side.

Bwomsandi has been around since before the trolls were even created. The Lich King was first created around 25ish years ago (lore wise), and Bolvar has been the LK for maybe around 5 years. There's no way Bwomsandi is working for the Bolvar, or the Ner'zhul.

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The writers already stated that Ner'Zhul and Arthas were gone for good.

They've said that both, but then they both showed up again in the DK Frost artifact questline... Just saying, Blizz has a habit of bringing back characters that they say are gone for good...

[Hellishreaper]

Don't forget the part where he kept Jaina's locket even though he destroyed EVERY humainty left in him, including his own heart. Or the fact that his soul was supposed to be imprisoned with the other ones in frostmourne but somehow it wasn't there anymore.

it WAS there, thats why he says "is it over" after frostmourne is shattered, thats when he gets his soul back
the entire lore in game of the lich king makes 0 sense because of that they talk about how he destroyed his humanity when he already had none because his soul was the very first one claimed by frostmourne.

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Bwomsandi has been around since before the trolls were even created. The Lich King was first created around 25ish years ago (lore wise), and Bolvar has been the LK for maybe around 5 years. There's no way Bwomsandi is working for the Bolvar, or the Ner'zhul.

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They've said that both, but then they both showed up again in the DK Frost artifact questline... Just saying, Blizz has a habit of bringing back characters that they say are gone for good...

those werent the characters, those were just the echo of them left over

[Kagthul]

helm of domination = essence of nerzhul. Also I'm sure the Shadowlands is big enough place for new villains and entities to step up as Bwonsamdi's boss, but I'm sure Nerzhul is also tied to that place.

People should read Chronicle. Seriously.

Ner’zhul was destroyed (completely) by Arthas, and Arthas became (fully) the Lich King.

Bolvar took his place. There is only Bolvar. Nothing of Arthas or Ner’zhul remains.

[Jastall]

The lore of Arthas/Lich King became something of a clusterfuck that the writers themselves had no idea how to wrap properly. Hunt down the Lich King.

-Arthas and Nerzhul fuse into one being, The Lich King at the end of Frozen Throne. Cool.

-In the novel which happens afterwards, Arthas dreams of making his little boy self (his humanity) and Nerzhul go poof

-Yet The Lich King in WoW keeps getting refered to as Arthas

-We learn from a quest in Icecrown that he cut his own heart out, which is said to be the last piece of his humanity. Wait, didn't he already make it go poof in the novel? So the dream was clearly symbolic in nature, no? There should be no Arthas nor Nerzhul anymore, only Lich King

-The Lich King reminisces during a quest how he was once a shaman. Nerzhul was supposed to have gone poof, the fuck he's talking about!

-Spirit of Uther says, Arthas is only an imagination of the Lich King and is unredeemable

-When the Lich King dies, he becomes an emotional fucking human Arthas again, despite having carved out his heart and poof'd his humanity/soul out of existence. Doesn't that indicate that the Helm had power over him?

Don't forget the part when the Scourge that we spanked all the way back to its HQ somehow becomes more dangerous without an intelligent leader directing it (what was the point of the Lich King then?), or the part where Bolvar is apparently unable to order the undead to jump into the ocean or stand in line in front of Wyrmrest waiting for the Red Dragons to incinerate them all. The entire thing is a kind of a mess.

I'm also wondering what interest Bolvar could possibly have in Vol'jin. Maybe as a potential weapon against Sylvanas who is starting to compete with him in the sphere of death? Weakening his other potential rival Bwonsamdi?

[Deleted]

People should read Chronicle. Seriously.

Ner’zhul was destroyed (completely) by Arthas, and Arthas became (fully) the Lich King.

Bolvar took his place. There is only Bolvar. Nothing of Arthas or Ner’zhul remains.

Ppl dont like it because Bolvar is a crappy character compaired to Ner'zhul and Arthas.
Next to that only Bolvar should not be very powerfull, Arthas gained his power from Ner'zhul if you only have Bolvar then you got a burned dude with a nice looking helm nothing more.

[Hellishreaper]

Don't forget the part when the Scourge that we spanked all the way back to its HQ somehow becomes more dangerous without an intelligent leader directing it (what was the point of the Lich King then?), or the part where Bolvar is apparently unable to order the undead to jump into the ocean or stand in line in front of Wyrmrest waiting for the Red Dragons to incinerate them all. The entire thing is a kind of a mess.

I'm also wondering what interest Bolvar could possibly have in Vol'jin. Maybe as a potential weapon against Sylvanas who is starting to compete with him in the sphere of death? Weakening his other potential rival Bwonsamdi?

the lich king was holding them back, the entire story of WOTLK was arthas's master plan to bait the most powerful heroes of azeroth to face him then raising them as his commanders to lead the scourge into conquering azeroth

[Synros]

those werent the characters, those were just the echo of them left over

They were fragments of their souls, that were both complete aware of your presence. That implies they weren't just "echos". We know Arthas is completely gone now, but Ner'zhul IS the Lich King. Where do you think Arthas got his powers from, and now Bolvar? As long as the Helm of Damnation remains, so will Ner'zhul.

Blizz does these fakeout deaths all the time, and the lore behind what exactly the LK is/can do is full of holes and contradictions. Just watch. Ner'zhul is still alive, and I'm willing to bet we're going to officially find out in game at some point during BFA.

[Kagthul]

Ppl dont like it because Bolvar is a crappy character compaired to Ner'zhul and Arthas.
Next to that only Bolvar should not be very powerfull, Arthas gained his power from Ner'zhul if you only have Bolvar then you got a burned dude with a nice looking helm nothing more.

Uh, no. The power comes from the Crown. Always did.

[keyboardshinobi]

Human potential, even demi gods trolls bend the kneel toward their new overlords

You mean ORC soul potential. The human is just the vessel. :P

[Hellishreaper]

They were fragments of their souls, that were both complete aware of your presence. That implies they weren't just "echos". We know Arthas is completely gone now, but Ner'zhul IS the Lich King. Where do you think Arthas got his powers from, and now Bolvar? As long as the Helm of Damnation remains, so will Ner'zhul.

Blizz does these fakeout deaths all the time, and the lore behind what exactly the LK is/can do is full of holes and contradictions. Just watch. Ner'zhul is still alive, and I'm willing to bet we're going to officially find out in game at some point during BFA.

this is just factually inaccurate according to both the book AND chronicle, nerzhuls soul was destroyed

[Aeula]

Bwomsandi has been around since before the trolls were even created. The Lich King was first created around 25ish years ago (lore wise), and Bolvar has been the LK for maybe around 5 years. There's no way Bwomsandi is working for the Bolvar, or the Ner'zhul.

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They've said that both, but then they both showed up again in the DK Frost artifact questline... Just saying, Blizz has a habit of bringing back characters that they say are gone for good...

Just because the Lich King is younger doesn’t mean he couldn’t have forced Bwomsandi into servitude somehow. Not that I want the story to be like that, this is just how I see Blizzard doing things.

[Synros]

Just because the Lich King is younger doesn’t mean he couldn’t have forced Bwomsandi into servitude somehow. Not that I want the story to be like that, this is just how I see Blizzard doing things.

Except for the fact Bwomsandi mentioned he had lost a soul a long time ago, which would imply he's had this boss for a lot longer than the Lich King has existed... It's NOT the Lich King...

[Jastall]

the lich king was holding them back, the entire story of WOTLK was arthas's master plan to bait the most powerful heroes of azeroth to face him then raising them as his commanders to lead the scourge into conquering azeroth

That's also a stupid plan. Why does he need us at all if he needs to hold back to let us win? And why would the Scourge that we severely depleted be more dangerous without his leadership and pretty much all its most powerful champions?

Plus that still doesn't cover why Bolvar does not use his control over the Scourge to end the threat. The entire plotline is poorly thought out and only exists so that they can recycle the Lich King somewhere down the line.

[Hellishreaper]

That's also a stupid plan. Why does he need us at all if he needs to hold back to let us win? And why would the Scourge that we severely depleted be more dangerous without his leadership and pretty much all its most powerful champions?

Plus that still doesn't cover why Bolvar does not use his control over the Scourge to end the threat. The entire plotline is poorly thought out and only exists so that they can recycle the Lich King somewhere down the line.

he IS using his control over the scourge to end the threat its why theres barely any undead on the rest of azeroth hes keeping the majority in northrend im 99% sure this is stated somewhere

[Jastall]

he IS using his control over the scourge to end the threat its why theres barely any undead on the rest of azeroth hes keeping the majority in northrend im 99% sure this is stated somewhere

But if he can keep them in Northrend, why can't he make them kill each other? Or order them to jump off a cliff? walk into the freezing ocean and stay there until they rot?

[Elestia]

I suddenly feel like playing through Zul'Drak for clues... I know the frost trolls were betrayed from within, yet you never saw troll undead...

[Hellishreaper]

But if he can keep them in Northrend, why can't he make them kill each other? Or order them to jump off a cliff? walk into the freezing ocean and stay there until they rot?

who knows ask blizzard

[Zandalariprelate]

I suddenly feel like playing through Zul'Drak for clues... I know the frost trolls were betrayed from within, yet you never saw troll undead...

You see a lot of undead trolls in zul'drak and drakkuru itself becomes a death knight, maybe that is why Samedi says: I haven't lost a soul since....which could mean the last time that happened something like that, it was because Arthas was stealing his troll souls