Elemental 8.1 PTR Changes

[Diatribe]

.........................and this is why I've parked my Shaman and have been playing my Monk exclusively for weeks now. Thanks Blizz.

[zito]

So the buffs don't do anything for gameplay or dps and only nerfs pvp and movement. My shaman gonna be on hold for awhile

[Triggered Fridgekin]

It's pretty impressive how disappointing these latest notes are. Not just for Elemental but for Shadow as well since they were more or less told that it would take a content patch in order to address class mechanics.

Surge of Power is the most interesting design decision they've made in BfA but that and the damage shuffle in no way makes up for the overall state of Elemental. This is the one step forward they've made after taking ten steps back.

[Ragnarocket]

It's pretty impressive how disappointing these latest notes are. Not just for Elemental but for Shadow as well since they were more or less told that it would take a content patch in order to address class mechanics.

Surge of Power is the most interesting design decision they've made in BfA but that and the damage shuffle in no way makes up for the overall state of Elemental. This is the one step forward they've made after taking ten steps back.

The talents I get but honestly aside from that nothing here screams "Major Patch Class Changes". I think a lot of people were expecting more considering that they are making us wait till 8.1 to be decent.

[Voltsmasher]

Kinda disappointing to see the upcoming changes. As an ele shaman I perform rather good on Zul but really poorly on Mother. If they could fix mobility somewhere in the range of a mage (Blink while casting) it would get better.

I don't want a mages tool kit though. I would rather us get a few turret totems to improve damage consistency when we have to break out cast is like that better than blink.

[micgre8162]

I'm coming into Elemental cold, having never leveled or really played Ele. When I played Shaman, I mostly played Enhance and dabbled in Resto. I'm at 117 now, and so far, I've found it to be an OK experience. I don't feel like I'm playing a gimped spec. I've noticed a couple spots where the class seems clunky, such as cleave and movement. The six second CD on FS is just awkward, because while I'm waiting for it to come back, I'm still hammering away, and when it does, my other target is often low enough that I don't know whether to use FS or just keep hammering away. I'd like to see the FS cooldown reduced to four seconds. That would allow me to cast FS, Lava Burst x 2, and maybe a LB in between shocks. It would also make keeping FS up on three targets easier.

My second complaint is regarding cast while moving. I think that could be mitigated by giving Ele access to Spiritwalker's Grace, just like Resto. My third complaint is minor. The troll lava burst animation looks like I'm cheering. It just looks dumb. Blizzard should put making a new lava burst animation at the top of their to-do list because it's obviously the most important issue to fix.

[Nyel]

In other words, if you stand still, you generate Maelstrom to cast ES and benefit from the LB buff, if you're moving, you're obviously not casting Lightning Bolt and therefore not generating a lot of Maelstrom for ES.

How are you benefitting by this buff when it's +-0% without being talented for this specific LB build?

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hi guys, where do you have the information from with 15% ES nerf and 40% lb buff? Is it already one the live servers?

PTR build for 8.1.
_________

Honestly the 8.1 "buffs" show a major lack of actual gameplay experience from Shaman developers. How is it possible to be so disconnected from your playerbase and the actual "in game spec feeling". Their changes are horrible in parts and in parts... questionable/okay. But that's what they plan for Elemental? LOL just quit this spec.

[Kralljin]

How are you benefitting by this buff when it's +-0% without being talented for this specific LB build?

By beneffiting i mean that you obviously cast LB, as LB got buffed, which is then offset by the ES nerf.

Of course, it's still a zero sum gain (Whether the indirect buff to Mastery yields any benefit remains to be seen), however your movement dps does not significantly suffer as the number of ES is pretty much linked to the amount of Maelstrom generators you can cast.

Basically, No LB means No ES.

[Nyel]

By beneffiting i mean that you obviously cast LB, as LB got buffed, which is then offset by the ES nerf.

Of course, it's still a zero sum gain (Whether the indirect buff to Mastery yields any benefit remains to be seen), however your movement dps does not significantly suffer as the number of ES is pretty much linked to the amount of Maelstrom generators you can cast.

Basically, No LB means No ES.

Ah, now I see your point and I agree. Maybe I emphasized the "we actually get worse" part a bit too much but... the "changes" for Elemental Shaman are so f* useless I don't know what to say at this point. I mean seriously, THIS IS IT? Why was the ES nerf even necessary?

[Venziir]

ehm sry but ele was utter garbage in legion all the way. all of your dmg depended on 20 or so different procs and if you didnt get like 15 of those procs you were dead last every single target fight.

.... Bullshit

[micgre8162]

With what you just said, why would anyone bring an Ele shaman to anything that matters?

Well, I don't know why you'd bring a shaman at all to anything that "matters". Ele has damage problems, Enhance is fragile, and Resto can't put out consistent healing compared to priests and druids.

Unless you're chasing world firsts, or otherwise on the bleeding edge, it shouldn't matter too much what people want to play. I wouldn't stack a raid full of ele and enhance shamans, but if someone wants to play one, then it should be fine.

The point I was attempting to make was that leveling as elemental isn't the "omg the sky is falling" experience that other people have said. From the perspective of someone who's just now learning the spec, it's playable, but a bit rough in some areas. I leveled an Arms warrior first, and I feel like I'm leveling at about the same rate. In some ways, I'm faster with the Ele because I'm able to deal with AOE packs easier with stuns and better self-healing.

If Blizzard smooths the spec out a bit and bumps the damage to be on par with mages and locks, I see no reason why ele wouldn't be a fine choice for raiding and mythics.

[Nyel]

Should not be able to bring all specs to all content?

I'd be happy if one Shaman spec is top, one is middle of the road and the third is at the bottom. That's still quite bad but at least the class is useful. Right now we have two middle of the road specs (with one of them tending to be bottom, Resto) and one that's bottom.

[micgre8162]

Should not be able to bring all specs to all content?

That's debatable. For a long time, you'd never consider bringing a Fury Warrior to PVP, that was the PVE damage spec. Likewise, you'd leave the Prot Warrior spec out of PVP as well. Some specs just don't work for every content area. Shamans are different than warriors. All three of their specs should be viable for all content. Enhance needs attention to be less of a glass cannon. Ele needs to be brought up to par with mages and warlocks. Resto should be fine, but it isn't and I don't know why. I'm not really a healer.

I'm enjoying the Ele spec. Tactilely, it just feels better than my Arms Warrior. There's more to do. It's more engaging. Arms feels a bit like a damage bot. What Elemental is missing is raw damage, and that's something Blizzard can address. They could even get creative and do something like reduce the cast time of Lightning Bolt, which would help our movement needs and increase our resource generation for more Earth Shocks, which would go a ways towards increasing our damage output.

[Kralljin]

Ah, now I see your point and I agree. Maybe I emphasized the "we actually get worse" part a bit too much but... the "changes" for Elemental Shaman are so f* useless I don't know what to say at this point. I mean seriously, THIS IS IT? Why was the ES nerf even necessary?

I've said it before, without any serious changes, Blizzard is going "All in" that Surge of Power changes the spec, as those changes do not affect the PE / Asc build seriously.

However, we could speculate about further changes due the LB buff.

First off, some hotfix buffs are semi confirmed at this point, Ion explicitly stated they are looking at Shaman Dps in the AMA, Lore said that another Balance Hotfix is coming soon.

Second, due the LB buff, CL buffs are bound to happen in my opinion, whether it receives the "LB/ES" treatment with some damage from EQ being redirected into Cl or just straight buffs to CL are quite likely, with the PTR numbers they could buff CL by 100% and it would still be below Lb in terms of raw damage numbers.
Even if they want to keep the CL/LB damage relation the same, it would still mean a 40% Buff to CL.

Furthermore, due to LB buff, you could also talk about buffs to FrS, as there is a lot of wiggle room between FrS and LB with those buffs, FrS does currently like 45% compared to ~50% LB.
With LB doing 70%, you could Buff FrS to something like 60%, which would be a 50% buff to FrS.
With current FrS numbers, i'd argue that using Icefury & FrS will be a minor dps increase at best, FrS just dealing 90% SP vs. 70% LB does not sound really attractive, despite FrS being instant.

Lastly, Lvb doing *a lot* less than LB crits is also a thing, so Lvb buffs might also happen.

Obviously, nothing of that promised or bound to happen, but the massive buff to LB breaks so many things in regard to CL,Lvb & Icefury that there are additional changes neccessary to keep a basic function going.
CL just barely being worth more than LB even on three targets is something i just can't see going live this way.

[mysticx]

Should we not be able to bring all specs to all content?

The issue is that when you go high-end enough (mythic raids, mythic+), there will always be specs left behind by the top-end guilds, and that trickles down to the mediocre guilds and players too, because they need every (real or imagined) advantage they can get.

That’s not to say it doesn’t suck to play those ostracized specs, especially as a shaman (Druids too, come to think of it), where if you want to play caster and the caster-spec is in the dumpster, there’s no recourse other than switching class, classes like mages or warlocks usually have at least one very good spec (Still not optimal regarding playstyle, but better than starting over on another character)

[BlueRemedy]

The issue is that when you go high-end enough (mythic raids, mythic+), there will always be specs left behind by the top-end guilds, and that trickles down to the mediocre guilds and players too, because they need every (real or imagined) advantage they can get.

Doesn't have to be, that's why you design these games with actual utility and niches in mind instead of removing them all and lying about it when your entire game is solely number based and there are only have and have nots.

[Kalisandra]

I'm pretty sure this was the case at the end of ICC, can anyone confirm?

It was the case until Legion.

[Straga21]

Well, I don't know why you'd bring a shaman at all to anything that "matters". Ele has damage problems, Enhance is fragile, and Resto can't put out consistent healing compared to priests and druids.

Unless you're chasing world firsts, or otherwise on the bleeding edge, it shouldn't matter too much what people want to play. I wouldn't stack a raid full of ele and enhance shamans, but if someone wants to play one, then it should be fine.

The point I was attempting to make was that leveling as elemental isn't the "omg the sky is falling" experience that other people have said. From the perspective of someone who's just now learning the spec, it's playable, but a bit rough in some areas. I leveled an Arms warrior first, and I feel like I'm leveling at about the same rate. In some ways, I'm faster with the Ele because I'm able to deal with AOE packs easier with stuns and better self-healing.

If Blizzard smooths the spec out a bit and bumps the damage to be on par with mages and locks, I see no reason why ele wouldn't be a fine choice for raiding and mythics.

"From the perspective of someone who's just now learning the spec"
yeah maybe you shouldnt advertise us being fine if you barely know the class when many people who are complaining about it have played the class for years throught expansions and know what they lost what changed and how it actually would work in mythics

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.... Bullshit

did you play on a mythic level with equally skileld palyers? cause it aint bullshit it was a well known fact that the amount of rng made the class not only brain dead since a good glove rng raid finder player would beat out a experienced mythic raider who got 1 or zero glove procs and with more and more gear the gap increased further and further in dps

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Not true, you could go gambler build, you could play with icefury, you has a few legendary potions that changed how you played as well. I admit I did not do mythic raids, but heroic raids we were fine and into high keys (20,21,22) damage was not the issue, it was the lack of defensive CD's.

the gambler build is exactly what i meant by being dependent on 20 procs and yeah if you dint do mythic raids you didnt notice the dog shit damage cause it started to ramp up with more experienced players and more gear creating a huge gap when you faced mythics skilled palyers with mythic gear
if you wanted to raid heroics sure it got the job done , you were still bottom if you went up against anyone who knew their classes but heroics were doable without that
but i for one did not enjoy knowing that on any other class i would be more usefull for 19 other people and bringing them down and not having any skill interactions with my class since every fight was ok how many times did my ascendance gloves procs? how many times did my tier set that was nerfed to 15% chance or something procced ? how many times did my legendary boots procced and how many were those crits? you could go with a i forgot dmg numbers since then so imma make up random numbers but lets say earth shock 10k crit 25k boots +1 crit 35k, boots + 2 crit 50k boots proccing back to back and proccing the 15% tier set 150k and did any of those porocs the gloves? and that was it. You rolled a dice 20-30 times and your skill had very little to do with your dps

[bonewax]

all classes on the ptr were buffed except ele sham lol. pack it up boys and roll the fotm

[Guyviroth]

I admit I don't play shaman and thus don't know their underlying issues. But if Blizz wants them to be the turret caster but with barely any tools to offset the fact that most bosses require movement, then they need to give them tools that accentuates those benefits.

I dunno if this is OP or not, but I thought of the following ability:

Earthguard
Insant cast
1 minute cooldown
Shield yourself in an earthen barrier, reducing all damage taken by 60% and becoming immune to knockback effects for 4 seconds.
Max 2 charges.

I think this would allow shamans to not only be able to absorb major AoE mechanics, and thus allow them to just stand there and cast spells, but also gives them an alternate roll of being able to manage soak effects (think Kil'Jaeden meteors).

I dunno, sounded good in my head. Probably not as good in practice.