Raids are dead. M+ is the future. This is an epic statement by JDOTB

[Raven]

Simple if you like the raiding more in lets say final fantasy go play final fantasy instead of wanting to change Wow to final fantasy.

[Kaver]

Epic statement by JDOTB

Raids are dead. M+ is the future.

Finally, and on a kind of unrelated note, I’d like to address Ion’s point that M+ should have loot disadvantages because “the activity requires four other people as opposed to coordinating and scheduling a full raid group.” I couldn’t disagree more vehemently with that line of logic, and it feels like the player base is being punished for the sins of the developers. The idea that players should be extra rewarded for putting up with the headache of finding 20 players that can all commit to playing at the same time is questionable at best. If Blizzard recognizes that the raid format is burdensome and onerous, maybe try fixing the raid format instead of incentivizing players to put up with it by throwing more loot at them. Part of the reason M+ has ascended so rapidly is because *gasp* it’s accessible. You don’t need five officers, a webpage, a Discord server and a recruitment post that you bump daily to do a +16 key. Blizzard has struck gold with M+, and rather than lean into it, Blizzard has decided that it needs to prop up raiding with favorable loot systems. Raiding is an anachronism from an era where massively multiplayer was actually the selling point. Now every game has persistent massive online worlds, and raiding has ceased to be spectacle and instead turned into homework. Let it die. M+ is the future.

Source: https://www.wowhead.com/news=287612/...ted-and-teemin

I looooove raiding and I will always see this as the main content of wow. I also like mythic+ but for me that is more like an extra activity for when I’m not raiding. But everybody has their own preferences

[Craaazyyy]

Mythic Raid is boring, easy, and barely anything changes or is difficult, outside of more damage and more health. You pray your DPS know how to DPS, and your healer and tank can handle the mechanics.

okay it can be boring to you but still while it could be easy its still harder than M+ there are more mechanics, and more things change when the difficulty goes up(besides just numbers).. so more mechanics for healers, dps and tanks..

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Someone who probably derives most, if not all, of his personal income from streaming M+ is promoting M+.... color me shocked!

In all seriousness I agree that penalizing loot in M+ doesn't make sense in the current environment anymore. They can do whatever they want to make sure that certain loot isn't spammable (weekly token/points cap that you can exchange for Azerite pieces or whatever).
Penalizing loot in M+ these days is akin to the old Hybrid tax, nonsensical and out of place.

i mean why shouldnt it be penalized? like unless you do an insanely high key(and even then its still probably not as complicated as mythic raiding) you should receive worse gear. Its 5 people going into a dungeon that is much easier than mythic bosses(most of them at least) where you need 20 people.. it also takes way less time on average as well..

with this logic you can say that solo content should also give insane gear cuz why the fuck not, am i right?

[demonyaa]

i mean why shouldnt it be penalized? like unless you do an insanely high key(and even then its still probably not as complicated as mythic raiding) you should receive worse gear. Its 5 people going into a dungeon that is much easier than mythic bosses(most of them at least) where you need 20 people.. it also takes way less time on average as well..

with this logic you can say that solo content should also give insane gear cuz why the fuck not, am i right?

Your argument about solo content is a strawman argument so I won't even dignify it with a response.

As for M+, ask any high end raider and the pretty much unanimous opinion is that the really high keys are harder than mythic raiding; which by definition makes alot of sense. Mythic raiding is a fixed difficult and M+ scales infinitely in difficultly.

Comparable difficulty and time investment should yield comparable rewards. I don't think the system is too bad as of right now, however azerite pieces should definitely be lootable from M+, either directly, with a weekly cap, through points/tokens, or whatever limiting mechanism Blizzard can think of to keep the system balanced with the character progression you can obtain from Mythic raids.

[Azerate]

Just had a quick look on youtube, it's a guy with like 6000 followers. No idea why interviews with him are posted on wowhead. Also, Method "NA" sounds like a joke

[Deleted]

what it should be is that raids are the ultimate form of pve and pve loot, dungeons being the gateway to raids + badges so ideally for me m+ wouldnt exist but yolo. this time of WoW is long gone.

[elaina]

Couldn't disagree more.

[tikcol]

Your argument about solo content is a strawman argument so I won't even dignify it with a response.

As for M+, ask any high end raider and the pretty much unanimous opinion is that the really high keys are harder than mythic raiding; which by definition makes alot of sense. Mythic raiding is a fixed difficult and M+ scales infinitely in difficultly.

Comparable difficulty and time investment should yield comparable rewards. I don't think the system is too bad as of right now, however azerite pieces should definitely be lootable from M+, either directly, with a weekly cap, through points/tokens, or whatever limiting mechanism Blizzard can think of to keep the system balanced with the character progression you can obtain from Mythic raids.

Another week, another non-azerite piece. This is what? The 4th week? Still not a single piece from either m+ or pvp. I know this is rng but it should definitely exist a way to contradict bad luck in form of tokens of points of some kind. It's ludicrous that there's people running around with 3 m+10 385 pieces (with good traits mind you) and I'm stuck with some measly 340 shoulders for 4 weeks in a row.

We're also doing the exact same piece of content and looting the same bloody chest at the end of the week. I can't farm that weekly chest, it's a weekly reward.

[Otimus]

okay it can be boring to you but still while it could be easy its still harder than M+ there are more mechanics, and more things change when the difficulty goes up(besides just numbers).. so more mechanics for healers, dps and tanks..

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i mean why shouldnt it be penalized? like unless you do an insanely high key(and even then its still probably not as complicated as mythic raiding) you should receive worse gear. Its 5 people going into a dungeon that is much easier than mythic bosses(most of them at least) where you need 20 people.. it also takes way less time on average as well..

with this logic you can say that solo content should also give insane gear cuz why the fuck not, am i right?

Wouldn't the solution there be to make other things that offer a similar difficulty as a mythic raid contain said similar rewards? You probably can't ever make anything comparable to the organization difficulty, but the literal actual difficulty probably could be done, right? --- if it can't, then that's kind of just bad design IMO.

[Zephre]

And JDOTB is who? I'm serious, I have no idea who you are talking about.

Same, never heard of him and considering he runs his mouth like this, I'm glad I haven't.

[Revamp Man]

I do think, at the very least, lower difficulty level raids should scale down to at least 8 people. Less would be even better, but I don't see how that'd be possible without a fundamental design shift. But 8 seems doable. (Maybe 6 or 7? I don't think 5 would be possible.)

So let's look at raid bosses with raid teams of 8
You want 2 tanks and 2 healers
So you have 4 dps
Well some mechanics are melee or ranged base
So lets say you only have 1 melee because all non monk healers get targeted by ranged mechanics.
Well that makes melee specs worse off because it would always be rogue.
Well why need more than 1 healer...well with only one healer you would need to limit the raid and tank damage. Think mother room switches with a single healer. We could make it possible to solo tank everything. This means fights with tank swapping wouldn't exist and adds would be hp blocks basically.

You can't balance it neck the 10m version was enough of a pain

[Tradu]

What a surprise, a primarily M+ player thinks M+ is the future.

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Just had a quick look on youtube, it's a guy with like 6000 followers. No idea why interviews with him are posted on wowhead. Also, Method "NA" sounds like a joke

It's one of the best and most popular M+ pushing teams, Method just sponsors basically all of them(just like they do with PvP)

[xcitng]

Ofcourse he would say that, hes an e-sport player for Method NA in mythic+....

[Volitar]

He is pissed he has to do raids to gear for his mythic plus.

I'm pissed I need to do mythic plus to gear for my raids.

[Deleted]

the day raids are dead is the day i stop playing wow

[Mojo03]

They both serve a purpose.

What more is there really to discuss?

Is he saying resources should be shifted more towards M+ than raiding? If thats the case, then I agree, but I also hate raiding because of the time investment, guild politics, and it's just being tedious.

[xcess]

As dps I get invited into raids way easier than m+. Not everyone likes M+ cos of the speed element

[Tradu]

He is pissed he has to do raids to gear for his mythic plus.

I'm pissed I need to do mythic plus to gear for my raids.

Yup. Really wish they'd implement some sort of system that separates the gear from different sources more. Like how in WoD PvP gear had higher ilevel in PvP content, but applied to everything. That way your PvP gear isn't garbage in M+, but it's worse than M+ gear. M+ gear would be worse than raid gear in raids etc. Too bad they won't do that, because Blizzard for some reason wants gear from every source to be equally good everywhere, even though we already have AP as the "generic reward from everything".

[Revamp Man]

So he doesn't see that loot wise m+ is faster and easier

Norm uldir 355+ 8 bosses once a week
M+6 355(might be off) 10 dungeons unlimited farm

M+ doesn't give azerite gear outside of weekly chest (agree that is retarded) but you can farm everything else up to mythic level constantly while raids have a weekly lock out

[Very Tired]

Sure are a lot of people who didn't take the time to fully comprehend his point but quick to call him the idiot.