We will steamroll the content and does it bother you?

[Deleted]

I believe that one poor guy (playing a shaman, invited to heal), who threw a psychotic tantrum when i (a druid) rolled need on a 2-handed str BoE mace (somewhere from SM) after everyone else (2 warriors and another shaman) also rolled need on it (with intention to sell). I won it, this guy stopped for about 2 minutes and unleashed a dense stream of verbal vomit in my general direction, then left the group and proceeded spaming /1 until he got either banned or kicked or told to shut the fuck up. I've got couple of whispers from strangers, that, basically, asked me what did i do to that guy and what did i "ninjaed" from a fucking SM for him to go into berserk mode. He then proceeded bombing me with ingame main, on one of which i responded with "if you want this mace so hard you can buy it for 80s off AH, i just placed it there". Jesus it was fun experience that will stay with me for my whole life

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I say that it takes a special amount of effort to die in dungeons, one of this special amount - grabbing underleveled and undergeared players. A healing druid with no int whatsoever maybe will handle healing at 20-30 levels, but at 40-60 it's a suicide. Even at 20-30 levels said druid will have to drink after every pack of mobs and you all will die on any accidental pull.

It's not a matter of skill (aka, with current wow, when a group can't manage encounter with all the tools they have), it's lack of tools in the first place. You don't have powerful defensives, healing cooldowns, DPS cooldowns to burst something down or get your group up quickly, it's just literally impossible to heal a tank in SM-lib who pulls a houndmaster with all his fucking dogs with his back and gets crushing blows couple of times, not necessary that thunderclap threat will be enough to hold a single healing spell and doge will run towards your healer. And if you had audacity to put a shield on your tank - he is left with no rage, so the very first batch of heals will make all 4 targets to run towards you.

Most of the time, if you can't do something in a dungeon, it's either because you aren't geared to do it, or underlevelled, or have wrong classes. It's usually not something you can wipe on couple of times and get it, again, unless, someone is literally crazy and keeps charging into 5 mob packs and die from first set of swings. Every. Fucking. Time. So, there is simply no point in staying with a group, because nothing good will come out of it, eventually people will get tired, will break their gear, will have to go back in town, return to dungeon and do it again because thrash has respawned. Not a good perspective to keep in mind when you get into not prepared (again, not geared, not leveled, with wrong classes) group.

So how do you do that then? You just split damage to your group, or use CC until shit gets manageable (aka, dogs die). So you basically have fear and poly as CC options here (unless you brought a druid that is not going to heal and dump all mana into 10 second hibernates instead), but in case you didn't brought any of that - i hope your healer has a lot of mana potions, because he will have to heal multiple people with his heal(rank 3).

Or as an alternative, you invite 35 level players and rush through it like its a modern dungeon, with everyones favorite "gogogo"

interesting
thanks for the reply!
seems like is going to be fun either way

[Protean]

24 hour AV definitely won't be a thing anymore - Not because it's impossible, but because it's inefficient.

You can finish AV on private servers in 15 mins - Why wouldn't you? You DO get a small reward for losing, and that reward still outdoes sitting and attempting to turtle for days. People CAN choose to turtle - You said it yourself, and they could hold a game going for several hours, and who knows, maybe when people are max level and max geared that'll be what they choose to do.

But for the start, while everyone still has rewards to get, people will take the path of least resistance to gearing. And losing AV in a rush will be more efficient than turtling it.

I remember farming hks in AV until i reached saturation and most players gave nothing anymore, then i left and joined a new. I remember that being far superior to winning, which awarded nothing.

[MalfLFT]

Guilds in retail aren't managing 40 people not to stand in stupid. look how long it takes them to do this stuff with less. Sure mechanics aren't as hard as Mythic+ stuff now but these characters are setup like characters in retail are now. Lot less to work with but the mechanics can still kick you in the butt with that many people to manage.

Yea ofc it can still go wrong and some people Will wipe, sure. Just saying, Id like to see New mechanics or buffs to bosses overall but that said, vanilla is not about the Hard raiding but about the Journey to get there

[Ganksinatra]

I have always said they made a mistake in games like this with not keeping the "death tax".

In EverQuest, we couldn't "steamroll" through difficult content because each death cost us xp, and sooner or later, some of us literally deleveled and needed to leave to level again and get a "buffer bubble". The fact of the matter is that while what these world first guilds dois neat, it's not really that difficult. They just slam their heads into the concrete wall over and over for 12 hours a day until they break through. World firsts (of which I was part of in EQ, not to beat that old, dead horse) used to mean something because you had to learn, and quickly, how to do the encounters. If it wasn't bad enough that you might lose a level raiding that night, you also SHARED the raid zone with other guilds. Yup, you literally had to schedule when your guilds would be in there. Because there were no "raid saves" or instances. A guild could literally come in and steal your final raid kill. They would be forever hated and shunned on the server and need to basically restart the game (because community actually mattered back then), but they could in theory do it (never had it done....wasn't until WoW world bosses did I see guilds kill each other on purpose over boss kills).

I'm not trying to take anything from Method and the rest, but what they do is basically the raptors probing the fence for weak spots. If they put in a mechanic wherein there was a definite drawback to death outside of a handful of gold for repairs, then there would be a marked slowing of content consumption at the end game. But everyone expects their WoW raid loot pinata at this point, so any ramping of the difficulty will no doubt be met with cries of "catering to the hardcore" or whatever.

[Deleted]

I have always said they made a mistake in games like this with not keeping the "death tax".

In EverQuest, we couldn't "steamroll" through difficult content because each death cost us xp, and sooner or later, some of us literally deleveled and needed to leave to level again and get a "buffer bubble". The fact of the matter is that while what these world first guilds dois neat, it's not really that difficult. They just slam their heads into the concrete wall over and over for 12 hours a day until they break through. World firsts (of which I was part of in EQ, not to beat that old, dead horse) used to mean something because you had to learn, and quickly, how to do the encounters. If it wasn't bad enough that you might lose a level raiding that night, you also SHARED the raid zone with other guilds. Yup, you literally had to schedule when your guilds would be in there. Because there were no "raid saves" or instances. A guild could literally come in and steal your final raid kill. They would be forever hated and shunned on the server and need to basically restart the game (because community actually mattered back then), but they could in theory do it (never had it done....wasn't until WoW world bosses did I see guilds kill each other on purpose over boss kills).

I'm not trying to take anything from Method and the rest, but what they do is basically the raptors probing the fence for weak spots. If they put in a mechanic wherein there was a definite drawback to death outside of a handful of gold for repairs, then there would be a marked slowing of content consumption at the end game. But everyone expects their WoW raid loot pinata at this point, so any ramping of the difficulty will no doubt be met with cries of "catering to the hardcore" or whatever.

You do realize that world first WoW guilds are per your wording "underleveled" as fuck when they tackle that content? They have an itemlevel that is by no means fitting for the content they do and yet they still manage it without the option to "go out and level again". You can't simply compare two very different games mechanicaly and say "they have it easier".

[Zigrifid]

Will classic be steamrolled?? no,will it be cleared easier than 2006? yes,gear plays a huge part and when you have 40 people and only 4-5 pieces drop per boss....well good luck gearing everyone fast.

[Deleted]

Anyhow, I think people massively underestimate the difficulty in maintaining 40 man raiding guilds and also massively overestimate how quickly people will burn through content. High end players will certainly burn through it, but that's maybe 5% of the people who will play the game, IMO.

There was a blue post once that more or less stated that 1% of the population actually raids the 40 man dungeons. And 0,0something% even set foot in Vanilla Naxx. It's why they decided not to make content for the 1%ers anymore but give the 99% their QoL stuff.

[dayne87]

You have to remember that of the original players from 2004/2005/2006 who played Classic there may or may not be many who still play. Yes, there are still some who played in Classic that still play, and I'm sure some will come back at the announcement of Classic, but there are also MANY new players (time marches on).

As others have pointed out, there will be genuine Classic noobs who are Wrath babies or Cata babies or whatever and for them they've never known the systems and the way Classic and even BC worked. So unless you have a core group of people who raided in Classic or at least played to 60 in Classic your struggle with steamrolling will be acclimating the people used to new features in WoW back to the systems of Classic WoW.

I mean, I started in May 2005 and I got to 60 some time in 2005 but I never raided at all in Classic. So for me, I would not be able to steamroll raid or even high-end dungeon content in Classic reboot. Even Naxx would be different from what I experienced in Wrath raiding. Granted, without group finder or LFR I won't be raiding in Classic as a casual player, so it doesn't matter.

[Deleted]

If the world first lv 60 happens after 2 days and MC is cleared within a month...I kinda think Classic will just die, fold and fail

Well this is a thing. The race will be between those who skip the Ubrs fire ress buff and those who dont skip it. When wipe occures more will rush Ubrs and secure a kill.
Mc isnt hard to start with. Just to find the right buffs. How to use them and not stand in simple mechanics. Download Decursive for a few bosses.

[Kruzan]

I suspect that if I play Classic, I will play it for the leveling experience more than the endgame. That was the appealing part of WoW for my back when I played vanilla. I feel that the endgame experience is much better in live than it was back then anyways, so it wouldn't bother me at all.

[Whiskra]

Naxxramas is the first instance with notably very high dps requirements, like Maexxna sub 30%, Thaddius' 5 minute enrage, Gluth's enrage after 3 decimates, keeping up with add spawns on Gothik, Kel'Thuzad p3 and of course Loatheb's infamous soft enrage that for most guilds required world buffs, every alchemy elixir, flasks, every dps enhancing potion etc.

When I did Naxx on private server, I had this feeling of awe, not because the instance was super tough for us, but because it was the first instance to actually challenge us to some extent (besides C'thun). It was like I could finally see the full context of the difficulty spike that players back in the day had to face in this instance, and it felt like it was a massive leap over all previous raiding content. I felt that if even we, who already knew all the strategies and did several times more DPS than people did back in the day, got overwhelmed and struggled with some bosses, the players who cleared it back in the day must've been truly amazing to be able to deal with it all, especially considering their previously hardest challenge would've been AQ40 which is a joke in comparison. Patchwerk's enrage timer in that context feels more like "Oh, your raid has some potential to maybe survive in this raid, congrats!" rather than "your DPS is amazing".

[Nyel]

Rushing Classic raids. Yeah sure. Obviously you've never played Vanilla. Have fun rushing reputation, resistance gear farming, questlines for attunements etc. That you know what to do know makes it maybe easier but def not fast or "steamroll".

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If the world first lv 60 happens after 2 days and MC is cleared within a month...I kinda think Classic will just die, fold and fail

How should this be possible? If Blizzard keeps the things as they were in Classic nobody is going to 60 within 2 days.

[Mulled]

I will be here, watching this space if it is so

First indicator: When will somebody hit "world first classic reboot lv 60"
-then MC clear
-then BWL clear

etc

If the world first lv 60 happens after 2 days and MC is cleared within a month...I kinda think Classic will just die, fold and fail

server first 60 on past servers have been within 4 days which is pretty crazy, generally its a hunter thinnk the past 3 servers have had the same person getting 60 practicing for live servers.

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Uhm, any decent guild with retail experience will one shot it? Unless they enter undergeared ofc.

lol retail experience wont help you, the guilds that cleared it in 1 day on past popular realms had practiced on their guild servers for weeks/months and had everything down to a T.

[Wermys]

Content will go down faster but I wouldn't say its going to be steamrolled. MC will but after that gear checks are going to start happening. So it will take time to build up necessary DPS because of gearing chokepoints.

[Luciferstwin]

Simple, they launch Burning Crusade.

This is what I would like to see. Something like Rift's PRIME servers. They start at vanilla, after a certain timer period they released the first xpac, and so on and so on.

[Sprinky]

I'm all for the 100% authentic experience, but my hope is that they will make 1 concession and add a hardmode to all raids. The hardmode should share a loot lockout with the regular version so that no upper hand can be gained on gearing. This would create an area for more hardcore guilds to compete but without ruining the overall vanilla feel.

[Revamp Man]

Don't change anything
Let the community cannibalize itself
Let them steamroll raids
Let groups of players like the devilsaur mafia control the market
Let little Tommy roll a shadow priest because he saw a video stating how strong they are
Let people play true classic
The broken unbalanced game they love and cried for
P.s.
Totally going to do the pally build that solos

[Deleted]

Been in the private scene for some time now and in vanilla and what I can share that is a struggle to vanilla guilds is the fact that it takes so long time to gear people for next content while people ninja quit the game or guild for better ones and constantly have to gear new people where at the same time ou're trying to clear Naxx, you also try to clear AQ, Bwl and mc in 1-2 nights (hopefully offdays if you got the people for it) and also split the raid for multiple 10man onyxia runs. Also want to make sure that people farm Zul Gurub rep and doing runs in Aq20 for spellbooks and some gear pieces that are really good to some classes. It's gonna be tiring to many people out there.

[Nomads]

Didn't Blizz already confirm they're going with patch 1.12? If that's the case, of course MC and most of BWL will get steamrolled. You're using end-of-expansion patch on start-of-expansion content.

[BSwitch]

At first I was disappointed. I don't want to go back to a Classic where everything is so damn easy that there's no point to playing. However, back in the day, I loved my guild, but we were slow. We raided a LOT - many hours, and very little progress. I'm looking forward to being able to play the game, see the content, have challenge, but also not have to devote 40 hours a week to clear raids. If things go more smoothly because we're better gamers, I'm not too concerned.

The fact remains that, as good as we are, there are mechanics in the game that will limit our ability. Gold is a surprisingly limiting mechanic. Mana is a much more harshly limiting mechanic. 40 people are far more difficult to manage than a flex team of 10-30. Resistances are a hugely time-consuming mechanic. Attunements aren't terribly penalizing in Classic (certainly compared to BC), but it remains that they do exist and will delay some people from just jumping into raids. Then, when we look at Naxx, there are reputation limitations that also exist as a barrier to entry (can be overcome with enough gold, but again the economic barrier is in place). We have all these things to slow down progress, then we need to discuss actual gearing. 40 people, 5-8 or more people competing for the same pieces of gear each week, and only 2-3 pieces drop per boss. Gearing will slow us down.

Yes, things will go much more smoothly than originally, but I don't think the majority of us will experience a day 1 steamroll - most of us undoubtedly will experience a progression path. If that progression path goes more quickly this time around, I'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing.

Like others have said, life has changed in 15 years. Back then, I literally was a basement dweller - I lived in my parent's basement while I took a year off from college to work. I went to my job, and ALL my free time was spent playing WoW. I put in at least 40-50 hours a week playing the game, and much less time working (I worked cafeteria/catering for a College, and summer was much slower than the school year). Now, I'm lucky if I get 2 hours a night during the week, and 4 hours each during the weekends. I have far, far less than half the available time to play today than I did when I was 19-20. It's going to take a while for me to hit 60. Then I need to find a guild that raids adult hours, meaning likely one day, a few hours on the weekends. Personally, I'm not sure I'll feel like I'm steamrolling, so if (when I get there) raids progress more smoothly than 15 years ago, I don't think I'll mind anymore.