Why cant they go back?

[Deathquoi]

because why should i do a higher diffculty when an easier is availble

Why do players play Halo on Legendary when Easy is available? Some people like being challenged. If you don’t, then LFR is available for you.

[Deleted]

Why do players play Halo on Legendary when Easy is available? Some people like being challenged. If you don’t, then LFR is available for you.

single player games are different.
In an mmo where things matter, diffculty should not play such a big role.
Your telling me that the only reason you play wow is because of the challenge?

[Deathquoi]

obviously not beucase the highest gear comes from mythic. But my whole contention is that raids and being harder were hand in hand. So that part of the experince was actually seeing the raid and entering it. And becuase of that you got good gear. Now i can see the raid regardless of anything i do in the game and that destroys the whole process.

It clearly doesn’t because plenty of people still raid mythic. The people that raid mythic and the people that only do LFR are groups with zero points of intersection.

[Thirtyrock]

The whole thing with the raid diffculties is that raids used to be something to strive for and have as a goal. Thats what i want and thats what they originally wer. LIke doenst that make sense? Raids being harder baseline? Today its pointless. 2 difficulties was towards end of wotlk.

The thing with cross relam is phasing. The benefit would be to remove phasing but at the same time staying on the same server with factions being balanced.

Cross realm hurts warmode becuase of phasing. Really the problems with crz all boil down to phasing.

The phasing thing makes sense.

The thing you're missing is that ME getting to raid on an easier difficulty than YOU doesn't invalidate YOUR experience. quit worrying about what other people find fun and do you.

In what way does me having an easy raid invalidate you doing a hard one?

[d bunk a lot]

hamsters need new scenery.

sometimes.. they fawn for their old wheel.

I'd love to play WotLK enhancment shaman in today's game... just sayin. I liked playing wack o mole.

Speaking personally though classes should not change each xpac. IF they do need to change... we shouldn't have to WAIT for a new xpac for the change to occur. I would much prefer that work to be spent on either new specs or new classes. But design a class, polish it up, and leave it the fuck alone.

[Mindark]

because why should i do a higher diffculty when an easier is availble

Because of this:

The whole thing with the raid diffculties is that raids used to be something to strive for and have as a goal. Thats what i want and thats what they originally wer.

[Deleted]

The phasing thing makes sense.

The thing you're missing is that ME getting to raid on an easier difficulty than YOU doesn't invalidate YOUR experience. quit worrying about what other people find fun and do you.

In what way does me having an easy raid invalidate you doing a hard one?

its not about me worriyng about other people or vice versa. The whole problem is that raids used to be EXCLUSIVELY harder. And they made sense that they were harder because it was the biggest endgame pve content blizzard puts out and its part of the fantasy of raiding. Being able to enter a raid and experience it WAS part of the experience and reward. The fact that it waasnt easy was what made it so valuable and fun.

[Thirtyrock]

thats understandble that if you dont have time then you wouldnt be able to see the raids. But thats exactly the problem.
Like look, now uve seen the raids. Then what? Why gear? Why continue playing. Whats the point, you already saw the raids..

Well, first off, I enjoyed the Legion raids so much I decided to get back into a raiding guild, which I haven't done since MoP, so it was a good recruitment tool.

Second, I play because I like other aspects of the game too. I just didn't spend much time in Legion raiding, but that's not the only thing to do in the game. I farmed mats, crafted stuff, dabbled in Mythics, Leveled characters, worked on Mage Tower. I had tons to do. I just didn't pursue the harder raid difficulties.

[Deleted]

Because of this:

what?
10char

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Well, first off, I enjoyed the Legion raids so much I decided to get back into a raiding guild, which I haven't done since MoP, so it was a good recruitment tool.

Second, I play because I like other aspects of the game too. I just didn't spend much time in Legion raiding, but that's not the only thing to do in the game. I farmed mats, crafted stuff, dabbled in Mythics, Leveled characters, worked on Mage Tower. I had tons to do. I just didn't pursue the harder raid difficulties.

yea ofc, thats not a problem. atm im just talking about raiding.

[Thirtyrock]

its not about me worriyng about other people or vice versa. The whole problem is that raids used to be EXCLUSIVELY harder. And they made sense that they were harder because it was the biggest endgame pve content blizzard puts out and its part of the fantasy of raiding. Being able to enter a raid and experience it WAS part of the experience and reward. The fact that it waasnt easy was what made it so valuable and fun.

But this hasn't gone away. There are still hard raids to complete, but now you can at least get a [I]taste/I] in LFR. It's not the real thing, just a sample. Everyone knows this.

Really, the only REAL raiding in my opinion is Mythic, which I don't do. Everything else is easymode made for people who are more casual.

[Strakha]

its not about me worriyng about other people or vice versa. The whole problem is that raids used to be EXCLUSIVELY harder. And they made sense that they were harder because it was the biggest endgame pve content blizzard puts out and its part of the fantasy of raiding. Being able to enter a raid and experience it WAS part of the experience and reward. The fact that it waasnt easy was what made it so valuable and fun.

i think they had the issue of only 10% or whatever the # was at the time of their player base seeing the raids, and so they felt they were making these grand journeys for a niche audience of their own game which obviously is bad.

but i dont agree with their way of dealing with it. (I.e making lfr) at laest make LFR difficult or give the option of less players so its not a cluster-f mess for new players who might never raid with more than 10 ppl. going from 5man everything to 25 ppl is weird for new players.

[Deleted]

It clearly doesn’t because plenty of people still raid mythic. The people that raid mythic and the people that only do LFR are groups with zero points of intersection.

exactly. LFR people have no reason to do mythic.
Mythic players will always be mythic players, they wont care about lfr. but thats not the point
the point is it is actually pointless to raid higher than lfr cuz u see the raid regardless.

[Deathquoi]

single player games are different.
In an mmo where things matter, diffculty should not play such a big role.
Your telling me that the only reason you play wow is because of the challenge?

I’m telling you that people that raid mythic do it for the challenge. The fact that LFR exists has no negative impact on the level of challenge. In fact, adding difficulty levels has made it possible for Blizzard to make raiding both more accessible and more challenging at the top end.

[Deleted]

But this hasn't gone away. There are still hard raids to complete, but now you can at least get a [I]taste/I] in LFR. It's not the real thing, just a sample. Everyone knows this.

Really, the only REAL raiding in my opinion is Mythic, which I don't do. Everything else is easymode made for people who are more casual.

ur still seeing the raid tho. Whats the difference? an extra mechanic or two? No reason to complete harder raids when i can do it in lfr and be done with it

[Mindark]

what?

I'll break it down.

You asked: because why should i do a higher diffculty when an easier is availble
I said: Because of this:
And referred to a previous post where you said: The whole thing with the raid diffculties is that raids used to be something to strive for and have as a goal. Thats what i want and thats what they originally wer.

You asked a rhetorical question that you had already answered. I was pointing it out.

edit: and now you're suggesting that we ignore everything that conflicts with your claims and only focus on your claims and their supporting arguments here:

exactly. LFR people have no reason to do mythic.
Mythic players will always be mythic players, they wont care about lfr. but thats not the point
the point is it is actually pointless to raid higher than lfr cuz u see the raid regardless.

You're already acknowledging people will play on higher difficulties, but asking us to ignore that fact and say that there's no point in raiding beyond LFR. When you literally just stated a point against it.

[Deleted]

i think they had the issue of only 10% or whatever the # was at the time of their player base seeing the raids, and so they felt they were making these grand journeys for a niche audience of their own game which obviously is bad.

but i dont agree with their way of dealing with it. (I.e making lfr) at laest make LFR difficult or give the option of less players so its not a cluster-f mess for new players who might never raid with more than 10 ppl. going from 5man everything to 25 ppl is weird for new players.

yea im aware of why they introduced lfr and etc.. And it makes sense from a busineess point of view. You would want ur customers to play what ur creating. But at what cost. It makes the whole idea from the first place pointless.

[Thirtyrock]

because why should i do a higher diffculty when an easier is availble

Because I like the challenge?

[Deleted]

I'll break it down.

You asked: because why should i do a higher diffculty when an easier is availble
I said: Because of this:
And referred to a previous post where you said: The whole thing with the raid diffculties is that raids used to be something to strive for and have as a goal. Thats what i want and thats what they originally wer.

You asked a rhetorical question that you had already answered. I was pointing it out.

yea i understood what u did but i fail to see the connection between my posts . If u mean that striving is why i should do a higher diffculty then that is not what i mean

[Deathquoi]

exactly. LFR people have no reason to do mythic.
Mythic players will always be mythic players, they wont care about lfr. but thats not the point
the point is it is actually pointless to raid higher than lfr cuz u see the raid regardless.

But LFR players would never have raided mythic anyway. I mean what you’re saying makes literally no sense. Most LFR players will never be mythic players either. The ones that want to challenge themselves might get there, but it’s not like getting rid of LFR would somehow get them to go raid mythic, they just wouldn’t raid.

[Deleted]

Because I like the challenge?

so ur playing wow for the challenge?

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But LFR players would never have raided mythic anyway. I mean what you’re saying makes literally no sense. Most LFR players will never be mythic players either. The ones that want to challenge themselves might get there, but it’s not like getting rid of LFR would somehow get them to go raid mythic, they just wouldn’t raid.

But apart from the mythic people who will always raid mythic, what reasons is there for people to go beyond lfr. I mean the whole problem is that doing lfr is like completeing the game. whereas mythic is where it should be. I understand they dont overlap. but then the majority of the players will finish the game in like literally weeks when the raid releaeses and then they just dont bother anymore.