Can anyone explain how RnG has materially gotten worse since Classic?

[Uurdz]

I see threads
I heard guild mates complain
Over
And over

But I don’t understand why they do it. In classic loot had horrible drop chances, with some guilds going 6+ months without getting a right for their left or a left for their right.

At worse it hasn’t gotten better but it certainly isn’t worse.

Am I missing something or am I right to conclude that WoW, 14 years later, is still full of people whining about dice rolls in a Dungeons and Dragons-esque game?

[chazus]

It's a few things.

Better gear is easier to acquire now, but for those who like to min/max, it's gotten harder. Items with multiple stats, and things like Azerite Traits has made 'targetting' the best difficult.

It's also a case of the carrot. Before, you knew that X item that you need dropped off X boss. You run it again, and again, until it drops. Just like mounts. But now, it's becoming difficult to determine where that best/next item may come from.

[ls-]

Well, while it's true that gear is more available these days, the problem is that getting BiS gear is quite hard because instead of simply dropping from a boss/chest/etc, it also has to TF, pref also get a socket to be truly BiS.

So drop chance is one layer of RNG, but WF/TF is another layer on top of the first one, then you have sockets, yet another layer, and so on.

Getting a normal version of a supposed BiS item is quite disappointing, when you get it multiple times, you sometimes start wishing that it didn't drop in the first place.

[Schattenlied]

with some guilds going 6+ months without getting a right for their left or a left for their right.

Let's not be so absurd as to compare legendary drop chances to normal loot drops, ok?

It's RNG, and then there's RNG inside that RNG, and RNG inside that RNG. That's how it got worse... In Vanilla shit dropped one way, that was it, there was only one version of that item. There was no warforge or titanforge crap, random gem slots, there was no getting "rewarded" with AP instead of loot... What we have right now is a system of RNG stacked on top of RNG to create a neverending treadmill for loot, with no goal at the end.

[BlueRemedy]

Game is harder than it was in classic. The gear grind helps a lot in mythic.

Classic wasn't super gear intensive, I mean it didn't hurt but it was more about wrangling 40 people who weren't idiots, and when you got to Naxx, poaching Warriors from other guilds.

[Doomchicken]

As an RPG Vet I'm not against RNG itself but more against the way Blizzard implement it. I don't have a problem with a chance of X item dropping off Y boss in Z instance. I do however have a problem with a chance of X item dropping and then having a chance to be higher ilvl and then a chance to be socketed and then another chance to have extra stats. That's craptacular levels of RNG. I mean, it's not as bad as what legions RNG was at the end of the expansion, but that still doesn't mean it's any good.

[ping-pong]

It's easier to blame rng than admit you're not good enough. It's ego problem. People see guilds finishing mythic in few weeks and can't accept that they're still struggling on 3rd boss, or even hc. Don't worry, rng is here to take the blame. "It's the system screwing little me and preventing me to be up there." If the rng is that big of a deal, you wouldn't see the same guilds in top10 over and over.

People need to understand that it's really ok if your progress, farm and having BiS gear takes longer. Race is only meant for a handful of guilds who really go the full distance to get there.

[Nnyco]

dunno how people think its worse when vanilla was two items for 40 people and 1% bis drops

[ping-pong]

Let's not be so absurd as to compare legendary drop chances to normal loot drops, ok?

It's RNG, and then there's RNG inside that RNG, and RNG inside that RNG. That's how it got worse... In Vanilla shit dropped one way, that was it, there was only one version of that item. There was no warforge or titanforge crap, random gem slots, there was no getting "rewarded" with AP instead of loot... What we have right now is a system of RNG stacked on top of RNG to create a neverending treadmill for loot, with no goal at the end.

How long did it take in Vanilla to get all the bis gear? How about now?

[Terahertz]

It's because it's a never-ending kind of RNG. You used to farm a dungeon for a specific trinket and be satisfied when you finally got it. Nowadays however you'll never really feel like you're done unless you get a WF/TF version of that trinket.

Another thing is that many concrete ways of obtaining gear were replaced in favor of RNG gear drops. Prime example being PvP gear which you used to obtain by spending honor and conquest points. Nowadays however it's 1. RNG whether you get a gear drop, and 2. it's RNG whether you get a gear drop that you actually want. In the past you could buy any piece of gear you wanted and needed while nowadays it's random when and what piece of gear you get.

[OreoLover]

Worse if you:
- want a well-defined end goal
- dislike the goal posts moving

If you got even one piece of BiS, it was likely for months, and after months or weeks.

[ToxicFlame]

dunno how people think its worse when vanilla was two items for 40 people and 1% bis drops

yet people who raided regularly got their bis stuff eventually. for some reason that doesn't happen anymore. Connect the dots

[StayTuned]

How long did it take in Vanilla to get all the bis gear? How about now?

For me personally about half of the current content back then. Right now.... Never. There is always one m+ more, always one procc more.... So i don't even try anymore.

I stopped running anything higher than m+4 as well because that cancer.io quit monitoring me. I can't spend hours searching for a grp thats willing to take me, even with 360 ilvl.

This modern wow is garbage. Can't wait for vanilla servers

[Mic_128]

It's also a case of the carrot. Before, you knew that X item that you need dropped off X boss. You run it again, and again, until it drops. Just like mounts.

Which got a lot wors ein Legion. Rather than getting a mount when you maxed out the rep, like every other expansion, some brainchild decided that rather than you actually being able to cap rep and done, added 'Paragon Rep' so you could keep grinding it afterwards and stuck mounts in those instead.

So rather than get to exalted and buy your mount, you had to grind to exalted, grind *more* rep and then you'd get given what was effectively a loot box that might contain a mount. If it didn't? Back to the grind you go!

Thankfully they got shit on a lot for that system and mounts were put back as exalted rep rewards.

[Deleted]

Outside of raiding, you could almost negate the RNG just by farming it over and over, Like I have had Ironfoe on 3 different characters on private servers. By doing over 600 runs of BRD. Inside of raiding you had masterloot which instead of the shit system that is RNG PL. Which meant that 4 items dropped of the boss and we could chose where they'll go. There are some items that wasen't really usefull for raiding but could be used for offspec/farming/pvp etc. Most of the time shit dropped that people could utilize. Now a days when a piece drop it might not be an upgrade for you. And you might be unable to trade it to someone whom it would be an upgrade for. Then there is titanforge, warforged, socket, extra stat etc. If blizzard would've added Masterloot and adding azerite to M+ I Don't really think people would complain that much.

[ls-]

Which got a lot wors ein Legion. Rather than getting a mount when you maxed out the rep, like every other expansion, some brainchild decided that rather than you actually being able to cap rep and done, added 'Paragon Rep' so you could keep grinding it afterwards and stuck mounts in those instead.

So rather than get to exalted and buy your mount, you had to grind to exalted, grind *more* rep and then you'd get given what was effectively a loot box that might contain a mount. If it didn't? Back to the grind you go!

Thankfully they got shit on a lot for that system and mounts were put back as exalted rep rewards.

And now people are asking to bring that system back because in BfA after you hit exalted w/ all factions there's no point in doing any content that primarily rewards rep, e.g., mission table :P

[Tradu]

How long did it take in Vanilla to get all the bis gear? How about now?

Shorter in Vanilla than now, considering BiS gear now would be 395 socketed(meaning at least +10 ilevel warforge) on every slot apart from azerite, which would likely involve M+ azerite, which you can only get at most 1 of per week, with a 1/100 or so chance(with some BLP, so eventually it might be a 1/20 or however many azerite pieces there are).

- - - Updated - - -

It's a trend to cry about RNG because people think they will achieve something for a thing that exists since the dawn of the game.

There's degrees of RNG, and MoP started a trend that went completely out of control in Legion and now BfA.

[NerfDPS]

There are now more layers of RNG ontop of RNG.

Look at azerite amour, personal loot, the re-roll system, most traits, most talents, anything proc based. The difference between pulling good dps 1 pull and bad the next for no reason of your own.

[Tradu]

dunno how people think its worse when vanilla was two items for 40 people and 1% bis drops

I mean, even if it's not worse than Vanilla(which I think it is), that's not saying much, considering by Wrath and especially Cata(and T14) we had the closest thing to a perfect loot system the game has ever had, and then it started going down hill again. So over 14 years the loot system improved over time for the first half or so, and then started getting worse again, to the point where I'd argue the current system is worse than Vanilla.

[Lochton]

Overall, RNG is much better but if you want to min/max/seek that one right piece, it has become tougher.