Can anyone explain how RnG has materially gotten worse since Classic?

[Gaidax]

It's infinitely easier. The most simple example is people not completing their key sets for months or rocking shit weapon just because of atrocious RNG.

Why I personally at the start of TBC used blue weapon for months simply because literally nothing dropped at all, it was a guild joke at some point. Vanilla was even worse.

What we have now is a luxury.

[rohoz]

It's infinitely easier. The most simple example is people not completing their key sets for months or rocking shit weapon just because of atrocious RNG.

Why I personally at the start of TBC used blue weapon for months simply because literally nothing dropped at all, it was a guild joke at some point. Vanilla was even worse.

What we have now is a luxury.

I remember using the illhoof mace well into hyjal, because the talon of azshara would never drop. Good times.
I think my paladin used a blue healing weapon all the way to tbc, since you were doomed to either get aurastone hammer or have to compete with mages for azuresong mageblade. lok'amir il romathis never dropped and the caster sword from aq40 dropped off viscidus. Bloodcaller from ZG was also another fight vs mages and warlocks, and the other paladin eligible sp weapon was the blue mace off random bosses. Good times indeed.

[Deleted]

For me personally about half of the current content back then. Right now.... Never. There is always one m+ more, always one procc more.... So i don't even try anymore.

I stopped running anything higher than m+4 as well because that cancer.io quit monitoring me. I can't spend hours searching for a grp thats willing to take me, even with 360 ilvl.

This modern wow is garbage. Can't wait for vanilla servers

Bullshit. without the help of friends I did 13+ keys in tos before argus, and 18-20keys during antorus as a dps. Instead of complaining about others restrictions you should Make your own groups.

[Beaker]

Thanks for letting me know that playing the game the way I want to play (in a way that was perfectly fine before) is wrong. The current loot system is repugnant, leaning heavily on pure luck rather than effort these days. Being able to target gear, make an effort to get it and then properly enchant and gem was much more satisfying that this crap. The irony is that blizzard wanted to “simplify” gear and it’s worse than ever now. I’ve got a lot of love for this game but I think it’s time to go do something else. Unfortunately a huge chunk of the gaming industry has the same attitude as blizzard do these days. Randomising rewards in attempts to keep people playing or paying for longer. Small indie companies just struggling to make profits I guess...

[Deleted]

Its just the azerite armor, the rest is farmable pretty easy. Got 380+ in dvery slot exept one trinket ring and cloak.
Not doing mythic uldir.
Only azerite is bad.. 370 helm 385 shoulder and 355 chest.
If you didnt got lucky by the small amount of 355+ azerite drops your way behind.

[Daedius]

Multiple layers of RNG on an item says HI, ontop of the RNG for said item to drop.

[Uurdz]

The only theme with validity is: Getting BiS is now more RnG due to Titanforging.

However, this is not new to BfA. Given the game-changing aspects of Legendarys I would argue that BfA is better Legion with regard to the RnG of Legendaries dropping given Azerite traits are not close to as game changing as BiS legendaries

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Its just the azerite armor, the rest is farmable pretty easy. Got 380+ in dvery slot exept one trinket ring and cloak.
Not doing mythic uldir.
Only azerite is bad.. 370 helm 385 shoulder and 355 chest.
If you didnt got lucky by the small amount of 355+ azerite drops your way behind.

Azerite gives raiders a leg up here over M+

[fengosa]

Because even if you can farm your BIS drop, it can still warforge, titanforge, roll secondary stats, and roll a socket it.

So if you play mythic, then you need a +15 titanforge, with the most beneficial secondary stats, and a socket. So basically you will never be done because you need need to meet 3 rng checks on single piece of gear, on top of waiting for it for it actually drop in the first place.

This is factually incorrect. Raids aren't balanced around TF gear or sockets and aren't needed whatsoever. T

[Deleted]

Players just want agency over their character progression.

Nowadays you just use whatever random gear you are given through your RNG boxes, or the items that randomly decided to titanforge. Even tho no two characters are the exact same because of this, nothing feels unique.

Currently the Azerite system is garbage. But since it cannot warforge, if they made it such that it drops from M+ then it would feel alot better. If the piece I wanted dropped from Atal'dazar, I would run that dungeon a whole lot, and when the piece drops I will be done.

[glowpipe]

so 8 kills and you complain? Tell when you get your pefect mythic+ azerite piece from your weekly chest. You can stop trying after a year.

8 kills for ONE item. The first item i got from a raid period. Rest of the gear was blue from dungeons. Gearing to a decent level, not BIS could take up to a year. Needless to say. i was far into bwl progression before i got my nightslayer set. Getting bis gear just didn't happen back then, you took what you got and was happy with this. And you complain it take a long time to get bis m+ azerite gear, well, it should take long time, why should you be handed bis stuff within the first weeks ?

Now you enter uldir and is more or less guaranteed 1+ item every single raid

Also. Don't see this post as me trashtalking current wow and praising vanilla, im not. Classic is an abomination that should NOT happen. Gonna fuck over wow and do way more harm then good.

[vsb]

Raiders were isolated from RNG with master loot. I don't know about classic, but since WotLK at least you could get any BiS item from the raid. There were some unlucky people who didn't get that trinket no matter what, but it was rare.

[Frolk]

Biggest RNG lvl was added in BFA, forced PL.

Kinda miss raiding, but PL is a total turnoff.

[Roxyfoxy]

There is 3 factors for distributing gear.
Content difficulty, grinding, and RNG.

To have a fun experience, you need a good balance of those 3.

Vanilla had a good balance of those 3 factors, though the amount of loot per player ratio was very low,(2-4 /40) so it took a lot of time
But in classic, loot from previous raids werent made obsolete the moment a new raid released, so a bad rng wasnt as impactfull as it is now. Even in naxx gear, there was certain items from MC that was still relevant. And not only thunderfury.

Late vanilla, rng was reduced with the introduction of tier tokens, so instead of a 1/8 chance to get your set drop, it was now 1/3 (100% in AQ cause bosses always dropped both the tokens)
Tbc contined to reduce RNG with good crafted items, badge items and good gear from reputation farming) but this increased grinding A LOT.

Wotlk reduced rng with a 2 / 4 raid lockouts (10N,25N and after ToC 10Hc and 25Hc)

Wotlk had a good balance of the 3 factors. Outside of the 4 raid lockouts were a bit too much for the semi hardcore guilds that felt forces to do all difficulties every week.

The problem with the current system, is Titanforging, making all the gear you get have a chance to proc as high or higher than what the hardest difficulty raid can drop without forging. Meaning, you need to constantly grind to get the best gear possible.

RNG, is the least fun factor in gear distribution, after years of blizzard trying to reduce rng, they suddently made the entire gearing process about RNG.

Grinding, can be a fun and rewarding method to aquire gear, but only if you can target a spesific item that you want the most and clearly see your progress moving closer towards the goal.

With mythic+ and titanforging together, you made a hardcore grinding game based purely on RnG. And that is simply not fun at all, in addition to all the other Rng elements such as azerite traits.

Titanforging is a factor that depends a lot on what kind of player you are. For players focusing on low difficulty content such as lfr and low mythics, titanforging can be a pleasant suprise and very fun when it happens, for medium difficulty players doing normal mode raids and medium high m+ it can be extremely frustrating, cause your item level is important for wether you get into groups or not, especially of you pug m+.
For semi hardcore guilds its both good and bad, your item level isnt important for getting into groups, cause you usually have guldies to do it with, and your general item level is higher than what pugs require. But bad rng can severly reduce your contribution in organized raids compared to someone with good rng.

For extremely high level players (world top20) it can be completely devestating when competing for high rankings, cause a good titanforge on key members can be the difference between a good and a bad ranking.

So rng is simply not fun, and the last 3 expansions have just increased the rng factor more and more.

[Playintrafic]

Uhm it still isn't best without tf, socket, and tertiary..

[StayTuned]

Bullshit. without the help of friends I did 13+ keys in tos before argus, and 18-20keys during antorus as a dps. Instead of complaining about others restrictions you should Make your own groups.

How is that related to anything I wrote?
I literally don't have the time to spend an hour each evening just to form or find a group for one run. That's how long it takes to get people for anything above +4. If cancer.io would at least log my +7 and +8 runs, it would be a better experience but it doesn't anymore, as that doesn't score in top 500.

[Magical Mudcrab]

So all it takes to satisfy you is giving each +5 +10 etc its own name and color model variation and you are satisfied?

Sword of Looting ilvl205 drop chance 10%
Sword of Looting (warforged) ilvl210 drop chance 3% TRIGGERED!

Sword of Looting ilvl205 drop chance 10%
Sword of the Spoils ilvl210 drop chance 3% All is well here?

No, I don't think you quite get it because what you just said isn't even remotely close to representing what I said. The problem is that your personal character progression is now based on RNG because warforging and titanforging both make it so that the items that would have previously been obvious character upgrades aren't the best iteration of an item and it demotivates people who want to optimize their characters. If I had Mythic Khor's Hammer drop from Taloc at 385, that is horribly diminished by the fact that the WF/TF system can have it currently scale up to 395, and the fact that I've seen heroic versions of it drop for pugs at 390. It's a stupid hamster wheel that's meant to artificially extend play time and make older difficulties relevant, but just makes you feel bad if you don't get the titanforged variant with socket.

[Volendrung]

How long did it take in Vanilla to get all the bis gear? How about now?

Not sure of the math behind it, but now you technically don't have a BIS piece unless it's the best stat distribution, titanforged to max, has a gem slot, and a tertiary stat. That's a lot of RNG to throw in there. In vanilla, at least it was simply waiting for the piece to drop and hoping you won the roll. *shrug*

[rohoz]

Not sure of the math behind it, but now you technically don't have a BIS piece unless it's the best stat distribution, titanforged to max, has a gem slot, and a tertiary stat. That's a lot of RNG to throw in there. In vanilla, at least it was simply waiting for the piece to drop and hoping you won the roll. *shrug*

It's now doing the dungeon on the appropriate difficulty and getting the drop. TF doesn't change anything until you get a TF'ed drop.

[Sarevokcz]

dunno how people think its worse when vanilla was two items for 40 people and 1% bis drops

this is true.
I can complain all I want that I didn't get my azerites from weekly chest, but I was waiting for 4 months before I got the bee shoulders from geddon I think for my eleshaman (yes, I was playing ele, and it looked terrible on tauren) and there was no real alternative until they introduced tier 0,5 (horray terrible itemization) Thankfully, I was second in line to get ZHC, so I didnt wait too long for that, but I never got my NAC or the caster mace from BWL and played the rest of vanilla with the rep/scarab AQ20 mace. I also remember ZG not having any epic rings for quite a while and only introduced in one of the later patches to sweeten the loot table in ZG.

Yeah, getting the true BiS is now way harder with all the random WF/TF, sockets, azertie traits, etc so its not really achievable, ever, but actually GOOD ENOUGH gear is far, FAR more accesible than before. I was actually really suprised when they tried 10man and 25man equal in difficulty in Cata and instead of getting 2/3 higher ilevel items in 25mans, they started to give 5! items per each boss, something common now, with 1 item per 5 people, but absolutely nuts back then and reserved only for end bosses of old.

We got it easy now tbh.

[FelPlague]

Back in the days, getting a legendary item meant something.
Today in 90% of the cases i instantly sell or shred it. And over the course of a day i get about 10 or 20 just by doing arena.

Fuck off with versatility on items.

wait what kinda hacks are you using that gets you 20 legendaries a day from arenas?