Woltk the medicore expansion which became famous as the best

[ArenaDk]

Lets talk about Woltk. Woltk is famous for being the best wow expansion of all time, while other expansions are most of the time flamed for every little thing.
Why is that so, even so Woltk had nothing to make it self stand out.

1. Leveling:

Leveling in Woltk was something special , people loved it for being a new adventure, following arthas and trying to cross his plans, while fighting of the natives, nature and other dangers. I can understand compared to Classic and TBC the leveling was awesome. The zones were great , and most important there were alot. But in todays time we have every expansion less zones with better quests. There is a reason why people hate leveling in Woltk today. Compared to what we have today the quests are boring, bad designed and repatative. No one would level there if he had the choice.

2. Dungeons:

The Dungeons in Woltk were a joke until the pre dungeons for ICC. Heroic or normal, all dungeons had little to now mechanics, reused assests over the whole expansion and after getting the gear there was almost no point in visiting them again. The pre ICC dungeons were challenging for most casuals at the start, but became easier over time and got abused realy fast to equip for ICC which we will talk later about ( which is part of the problem of the dungeon).

3. Raids

The addon had probably the worst first Raid of all time. Naxx was heavely undertuned, Onyxia was a 1 Boss raid which dropped far to good gear , obsidian was also too easy, if you did not go for the 25 mount.
Ulduar was the beacon of Woltk. Hands down the only Raid which can be considerd as ,, good´´. Fun from begining to end, tactical fights, good tuning out site of Yogg alone in the darkness and lots of player reponsibility.

We dont need to talk about the next raid i guess. The pre dungeon was fun, but too easy and way to good gear again. The raid was tuned fine, but boring outsite of two boss fights and a meme.

Now we come to ICC. ICC was a special kind of Raid. It was probably the Raid the most People playing Woltk did. The fights were alot of fun, but at the same time mostly no challenge. Lich king was probably the only fight which saved the Raid from being considerd Naxx level. At one point i hate Icc for being this easy, on the other hand ICC gave people a good way to play after completing the pre dungeons.

4. PvP

Awesome world PvP with thousand winter. But Dks, Tanks, Legendarys ruined almost all arena seasons. And with the Cata bug making the tabard worthless, giving it the last nail in the coffin.

5. Lore

Lichking had more Plotarmor than Sylvanas and she died three times already. Like the only reason the Lichking was allowed to exist this long was because no bigger being like Alextrasza had time or interest to even kill him. (useless nexus war )

It may not sound to bad you will say. But remember in todays time expansions get judged for every little mistake and Woltk was full of boring fights /quests / gameplay. If Woltk would come out today, it would be regarded as even worse than WoD.

Most people will hate on the classic three Expansions: WoD, Cata and Mop.

WoD: no content , while having fair pvp and few of the best raids

Cata: because at the start it was to hard and in the end it was to easy until Spine

MoP: Kungfu Panda

But all this expansions had better dungeons/raids/leveling/pvp and bonus features which were better than Woltks. Okay not Ashran. But Woltk was not the prime of Wow, it was just lucky to ride on a famous character, released before the competition like lol, csgo and other came out and while wow was still famous as hell.

tldr: Woltk was not as good as people act

[Vargur]

I actually did play in WOTLK for at least a few months (concurrent TOC and ICC), so maybe it's just nostalgia when I'm saying that things were simpler = the game was better.

[StationaryHawk]

Like the only reason the Lichking was allowed to exist this long was because no bigger being like Alextrasza had time or interest to even kill him. (useless nexus war )

That's a pretty big, baseless assumption.

[gcsmith]

WOTLK was a good expansion for many reasons

1) Brought back a large, rather fun raid that very few people saw, but used it as the intro raid so it didn't feel to bad as a rehash.
2) Had a multi raid opening tier.
3) Was the first expansion to have a proper well thought out storyline right from the start, building on the story telling from the end of TBC.
4) Introduced vehicles and phasing. Two pieces of new technology, or at least new uses of old technology for vehicles. But Phasing was a big big thing for the questing.
5) Interesting bring back of known characters, such as Mal'ganis who we've not seen since, beyond legion invasions in pre patch.
6) was the last expansion that really felt like there was no faction bias.

[Pua]

tldr: Woltk was not as good as people act

TLDR: You don't get to decide what other people prefer.

[tyrlaan]

WOTLK was a good expansion for many reasons

1) Brought back a large, rather fun raid that very few people saw, but used it as the intro raid so it didn't feel to bad as a rehash.
2) Had a multi raid opening tier.
3) Was the first expansion to have a proper well thought out storyline right from the start, building on the story telling from the end of TBC.
4) Introduced vehicles and phasing. Two pieces of new technology, or at least new uses of old technology for vehicles. But Phasing was a big big thing for the questing.
5) Interesting bring back of known characters, such as Mal'ganis who we've not seen since, beyond legion invasions in pre patch.
6) was the last expansion that really felt like there was no faction bias.

Lol at point 6.

The rest of your points are sound though.

[ArenaDk]

WOTLK was a good expansion for many reasons

1) Brought back a large, rather fun raid that very few people saw, but used it as the intro raid so it didn't feel to bad as a rehash.
2) Had a multi raid opening tier.
3) Was the first expansion to have a proper well thought out storyline right from the start, building on the story telling from the end of TBC.
4) Introduced vehicles and phasing. Two pieces of new technology, or at least new uses of old technology for vehicles. But Phasing was a big big thing for the questing.
5) Interesting bring back of known characters, such as Mal'ganis who we've not seen since, beyond legion invasions in pre patch.
6) was the last expansion that really felt like there was no faction bias.

1. Rehash today outsite of timewalking would be called cheating by the community
2. So did other expansions which are proclaimed as the worst of all time
3. which one? Because the bosses are somehow connected? Illidan, Kil , Arthas didnt saw each other for an eternity
4. point taking, even so vehicle fights are mostly hated even so for me they are fun
5. They didnt really bring him back since he had no story which we didnt knew already
6. I would have said cata for people who read all lore

[Nikkaszal]

6) was the last expansion that really felt like there was no faction bias.

There's no such thing as faction bias

Merely nitpickers who see the slightest deviations as massive favouritism

[gcsmith]

There's no such thing as faction bias

Merely nitpickers who see the slightest deviations as massive favouritism

I'm sorry, but Blizzard have faction bias, and it's come across through several key events. Including development for cataclysm where they purposely cut alliance content to be able to spend more time on Horde content.

[Tiwack]

You're free to have your opinion, just keep others out of it, to me it was great, but what do I know now, it's 2018.

[gcsmith]

Lol at point 6.

The rest of your points are sound though.

Started playing in TBC, and up until Cataclysm everything seemed fine. Then you had Alliance content cut from Cataclysm development, Alliance content cut from MOP development (trial of high king). It doesn't help that the 2 heads of wow story, Metzon and the current one see themselves in Horde leaders.

[Brisnger]

But it was Arthas! The Lich King! It was all just so epic.

[Tiwack]

I'm sorry, but Blizzard have faction bias, and it's come across through several key events. Including development for cataclysm where they purposely cut alliance content to be able to spend more time on Horde content.

Easy to say with nothing backing it up. Who do you think got the better deal between goblins and worgens? Each side got stuff, same as always.

[Saverem]

Lets talk about Woltk. Woltk is famous for being the best wow expansion of all time, while other expansions are most of the time flamed for every little thing.
Why is that so, even so Woltk had nothing to make it self stand out.

1. Leveling:

Leveling in Woltk was something special , people loved it for being a new adventure, following arthas and trying to cross his plans, while fighting of the natives, nature and other dangers. I can understand compared to Classic and TBC the leveling was awesome. The zones were great , and most important there were alot. But in todays time we have every expansion less zones with better quests. There is a reason why people hate leveling in Woltk today. Compared to what we have today the quests are boring, bad designed and repatative. No one would level there if he had the choice.

2. Dungeons:

The Dungeons in Woltk were a joke until the pre dungeons for ICC. Heroic or normal, all dungeons had little to now mechanics, reused assests over the whole expansion and after getting the gear there was almost no point in visiting them again. The pre ICC dungeons were challenging for most casuals at the start, but became easier over time and got abused realy fast to equip for ICC which we will talk later about ( which is part of the problem of the dungeon).

3. Raids

The addon had probably the worst first Raid of all time. Naxx was heavely undertuned, Onyxia was a 1 Boss raid which dropped far to good gear , obsidian was also too easy, if you did not go for the 25 mount.
Ulduar was the beacon of Woltk. Hands down the only Raid which can be considerd as ,, good´´. Fun from begining to end, tactical fights, good tuning out site of Yogg alone in the darkness and lots of player reponsibility.

We dont need to talk about the next raid i guess. The pre dungeon was fun, but too easy and way to good gear again. The raid was tuned fine, but boring outsite of two boss fights and a meme.

Now we come to ICC. ICC was a special kind of Raid. It was probably the Raid the most People playing Woltk did. The fights were alot of fun, but at the same time mostly no challenge. Lich king was probably the only fight which saved the Raid from being considerd Naxx level. At one point i hate Icc for being this easy, on the other hand ICC gave people a good way to play after completing the pre dungeons.

4. PvP

Awesome world PvP with thousand winter. But Dks, Tanks, Legendarys ruined almost all arena seasons. And with the Cata bug making the tabard worthless, giving it the last nail in the coffin.

5. Lore

Lichking had more Plotarmor than Sylvanas and she died three times already. Like the only reason the Lichking was allowed to exist this long was because no bigger being like Alextrasza had time or interest to even kill him. (useless nexus war )

It may not sound to bad you will say. But remember in todays time expansions get judged for every little mistake and Woltk was full of boring fights /quests / gameplay. If Woltk would come out today, it would be regarded as even worse than WoD.

Most people will hate on the classic three Expansions: WoD, Cata and Mop.

WoD: no content , while having fair pvp and few of the best raids

Cata: because at the start it was to hard and in the end it was to easy until Spine

MoP: Kungfu Panda

But all this expansions had better dungeons/raids/leveling/pvp and bonus features which were better than Woltks. Okay not Ashran. But Woltk was not the prime of Wow, it was just lucky to ride on a famous character, released before the competition like lol, csgo and other came out and while wow was still famous as hell.

tldr: Woltk was not as good as people act

Each expansion is a product of their time. Compared to today's tech and the way gaming has evolved, yes, it's not a good expansion. AT THE TIME tho, it was fun.

It's like how FF7 is still my favorite RPG of all time, but if I went back to play the game again I'd be bored and quit before I even left Midgar.

[gcsmith]

Easy to say with nothing backing it up. Who do you think got the better deal between goblins and worgens?

Nothing backing it up? Blizzard themselves said they cut Worgen content to develop Goblin content. There was meant to be worgen content in darkshore similar to Azshara for goblins. They also cut the Twilight Highlands entry cinematic/cutscene/gameplay.

[Sastank]

ITT: Opinions stated or presented as facts.

Typical MMOC post about Expac rankings.

Nothing to see here.

[Enkrypt]

tldr: Woltk was not that good in my opinion

Fixed that for you.

/thread

WotLK was fucking awesome, except for that ridiculous Trial of the Crusader dungeon on horses. That was stupid. Everything else? Fucking awesome.

[Teri]

Wotlk wasn't bad but it was a big contrast between the first half and second half, systems and raids changed drasticly.

The story was great , even better if you played WC3, but the systems went downhill after Ulduar imo. (added dungeon finder and up to 4 raids a week until the Cata pre-patch)

The first tier was fairly easy on normal tactics, Immortal/Undying and Sarth 3d were pretty cool, but then community complained about removals of Plagued (added back via black market)/Black Proto Drakes.

Malygos was just annoying with the vehicle part but still doable.

Still as a whole expansion, system wise, TBC was more consistent.

[Lulbalance]

4. PvP

Awesome world PvP with thousand winter. But Dks, Tanks, Legendarys ruined almost all arena seasons. And with the Cata bug making the tabard worthless, giving it the last nail in the coffin.

Arena seasons were actually pretty good in that xpac outside of the first really. Some random stuff, like every season.

I don't really care enough about the topic to go into the rest of it.

[Eapoe]

1). Leveling has been fun in every xpac. They also become boring and tedious after the next xpac comes out. This isn’t a burden on WotLK alone, and honestly it’s one of the xpacs that has the simplest and quickest leveling compared to visiting other xpacs you can now skip with the current leveling system.
2). Dungeons had mechanics. You just outgeared them to where you could ignore them. Hell, one of the most complicated mechanic ridden dungeons was actually heavily avoided because of the mechanics required in it.
3). Raids were fine. OS, Ony’s lair, and RS were companion raids, introduced as another gearing path. OS was released with Naxx, Ony’s I cant remember, and RS with ICC. Personal opinion, Ulduar is way to overhyped. Yes, it was fun, but that was because Blizzard tried something new that they never have since: a raid difficulty that changed based on how you handled boss mechanics. It had branching paths? So did ICC, yet ICC is never talked about as a bonus. Same as Naxx. Ulduar was something new that hadn’t been seen before, of course people will be like “it’s the best!” without realizing the only thing that separates it from other raids is a boss mechanic to change difficulty and loot drops.
4). Pvp has never been a selling point with WoW. Every xpac is something different that ruins it.
5). You call it plot armor, Blizz calls it story. Either way, as it stands now, the scourge have been made and at this point can not be stopped. LK needs to exist to control them and to keep them from running rampant all over Azeroth. Kind of summed up in Arthas death cinematic.

I’m not arguing that WotLK doesn’t have issues, but some of the reasons you state it is bad completely overlooks the things that made it good, while also stating problems it has are worse or the same before and after WotLK.