Saurfang is an SI:7/Alliance asset

[Super Dickmann]

Also, Genn's clearly not Anduin's puppet going by 8.1

Oh, you poor thing. I'm sorry I have to be the one to show you. The new dialogue is:

Anduin Wrynn says: Of course. You know you can always speak your mind.
Genn Greymane says: I cannot stand idle as they endure the same fate as we did. Gilneas will fight by their side.
Genn Greymane says: I don't mean to defy you. But if I didn't give the order, I think Mia would charge off to battle without me.

Jaina also sees the error of her ways:

Jaina: Press the attack as the zandalari mourn their fallen king? that would make us no better than the banshee

The Horde may be either schizophrenics, idiots or war criminals, but at least our entire faction isn't a circlejerk around a teenager. At least not until Saurfang, Calia and Baine take over a few patches from now then we're as fucked as you are.

[f3llyn]

Yes, it actually does make a difference. Because you're flatout lying.

I swear, the Sylvanas fanboys have only two rigid definitions of a topic where no nuance exists whatsoever.

He's not a puppet. Either way. He would actually have to be pursuing an Alliance agenda or working with them. Which isn't happening. At all.

None of the "evidence" you keep screaming about implies nothing what you're claiming whatsoever.

Dividing the horde and sowing dissent benefits the horde how exactly? Because that's what Saurfang is trying to do and the alliance know it. They probably figured that much out when he didn't leave when we went in to get Talanji.

He may not be doing it on purpose but that doesn't change the fact Saurfang being out and about only helps the alliance.

[Ahrean]

if he refuses to be rescued when the horde comes to break him out but is completely fine with anduin and mathias using him then he’s a traitor and a spy.

Nothing in this thread proves that he's even aware of the SI:7 allowing his escape, if that is indeed what happened. Even if he is aware that they're letting him go, he's not spying for the Alliance unless he's actually, yaknow, spying for the Alliance.

[Artelia]

Varok and Baine are exemplars of the true Horde heroes, they're what our characters should strive to become.

You mean....Alliance dogs?

[f3llyn]

The Alliance backed the Horde rebels during the siege on Orgrimmar and none of the Horde leaders were called traitors for accepting Alliance help. Saurfang seems to be building up a similar resistance and he is called a traitor for accepting Alliance assistance?

This chain of events isn't new. The Alliance gets to help the Horde beat the Horde! It's tradition!

He's a traitor because he abandons the horde during the battle of lordaeron. The resistance or whatever he's doing is secondary.

[Ramz]

I did say 'assuming his aware' so addressed that. And I didn't mention Zappiboi in this post. So not sure why you're brining him up? But still I regret a promising character is being tied to someone who is very possibly a tratior, regardless if it makes sense.

It's worse since Varok is very possibly getting help from the greatest enemy of the Horde. Slyvannas isn't a great leader and I'd happily see her replaced but not by saurfang now.

Oh but you mentioned Zappy in previous post so I wanted to adress it, I also find this plot to be unsatisfying. Same goes with "Justice to the fallen" continuation of Vol'Jin quest chain which is super random and weird.

As for Saurfang he doesn't even seem to be aware that SI:7 was involved. I'd rather not jump the bandwagon without seeing full picture yet.

[LazarusLong]

He's a traitor because he abandons the horde during the battle of lordaeron. The resistance or whatever he's doing is secondary.

Remind me, when did he abandon horde during the battle? Was it before or after Sylvanas plaguebombed our own troops and then raised them as mindless ghouls?

[f3llyn]

Why does everyone who talks about honour have no idea what it means. Everyone thinks that Saufang working with the alliance (knowingly or not) is an act of dishonour, in fact its quite the opposite. Honour is earned through respect, for yourself, your enemy and your allies. Its about doing the respectable thing, even if that means working with your enemy. Yes there is also honour loyalty, but that has to be earned or it means nothing. Galiwix can buy the loyalty of as many goblins as he likes, but there is no honour in the loyalty, they would betray him in an instant if they would think it would help there bank balance.

Sylvanas is the traitor to the horde no saufang. Saufang is putting the honour of the horde before his own, in this sence he is a true hero of the horde. The best thing for the horde is for Saufang and Anduin to share a bottle of wine over Sylvanas's broken corpse, and then go there separate ways, next time they meet may well be in battle.

The horde he abandons at the start of a war? Yeah totally the honorable thing to do.

[Gungnir]

At this moment, I'd put my money on Saurfang being unaware of Shaw "orchestrating" his escape and Alliance trying to use him to stir shit up for Sylvanas and destabilize the Horde. I also think this is probably what'll bite them in the ass later, when/if Saurfang learns he's being used. It could potentially be what makes Alliance lose advantage they gained after Siege of Zuldazar.

Saurfang is literally one of the oldest living war veterans within the entire orc race.
Why do people think he's apparently unaware of being let out?

[f3llyn]

Remind me, when did he abandon horde during the battle? Was it before or after Sylvanas plaguebombed our own troops and then raised them as mindless ghouls?

After you leave the under city in the scenario he completely disappears. Before the end of the scenario he reappears again and admits he sat out to watch what was happening. After that he goes on to fight the alliance in an attempted suicide where he is captured instead of helping everyone else get out.

https://youtu.be/7IFxwlcSo4w?t=1317

[Verdugo]

Why do people think he's apparently unaware of being let out?

Because BfA portrays him as a fucking idiot.

[Trbn]

Remind me, when did he abandon horde during the battle? Was it before or after Sylvanas plaguebombed our own troops and then raised them as mindless ghouls?

she raised skeletons not troops. skeleton is mindless animanted dead with no will and generally spirit is untouched when skeleton raised

[andrewjoy]

The horde he abandons at the start of a war? Yeah totally the honorable thing to do.

"I was only following orders" is not a defence for war crimes. He did the right thing.

[Heladys]

Saurfang is joining the Horde!

Or.... maybe he's just using the Alliance to oust Sylvanas, Garrosh-style. Yeah, that's it. Any other interpretation would be nonsense.

[Deleted]

Oh but you mentioned Zappy in previous post so I wanted to adress it, I also find this plot to be unsatisfying. Same goes with "Justice to the fallen" continuation of Vol'Jin quest chain which is super random and weird.

As for Saurfang he doesn't even seem to be aware that SI:7 was involved. I'd rather not jump the bandwagon without seeing full picture yet.

I did. But from the quote it seemed out of no where. It's more I like zappy boi and his association with Varok will only taint him. It's a shame to drag him down saurfang.

Tbh regardless of Saurfang knowledge his compromised. Also he had the option to leave with the Horde but he only 'escaped' after the Allaince made it easy. It's suspicious at the very least.

[Raven]

this reeks just as western democratic governments do with non cooperative governments, they secretly dethrone the rightful leaders and replace them with puppets.

In short, alliance's favorite game

Hey if it works for Murica! it should be fine for Alliance.

[Deleted]

Saurfang is joining the Horde!

Or.... maybe he's just using the Alliance to oust Sylvanas, Garrosh-style. Yeah, that's it. Any other interpretation would be nonsense.

If so he did it on the allys terms. He had literally no cards to bargain with when his in their prison. And it's saurfang here his not gonna go back on a promise.

Also in general this scenario is very different then SoO. Slyvannas hasn't theayen the Horde yet. Saurfang would be weakening the Horde benefiting only the Allaince.

To quote darkest hour

You cannot reason with a lion when your head is in its mouth

[Keihndeth]

Man, the Horde fanboys tears are a flood. Wonder whats going to happen when they make High Elves playable for the Alliance in the Siege of Silvermoon patch being that 50% of the Horde is Blood Elves. Saurfang is likely being assisted by Anduin to overthrow Sylvanas to restore your precious honor. Either that or have Sylvanas as your leader and be the evil faction you were originally built to be (WC1 and WC2).

[Vakir]

This thread backlash just further highlights that the community vision of the story is so heavily at odds with what the developers have thematically intended for upwards of 14 years. Plus that over-passion for either faction usually comes off as creepy nationalism.

If someone expected anything other than this to happen, Mists rehash or not (which IS a valid complaint), and thinks that it's "zomfg treason against muh fictional group," I have bad news - you're supposed to be playing a hero, and as such are supposed to be siding with the character that isn't evil. Even if said character is pulling an enemy of my enemy situation.

If your banner, symbol, or easily trademarked catchphrase takes precedence over like...empathy, or pesky things like that, I have troubling news for you.

If you want to murderhobo or aid and abet war crimes and NOT go down a scripted narrative where you oust shitty people, go join the group of other 19 year olds playing Chaotic Evil edgelords at a tabletop game. You get to loot things AND be an asshole...and it helpfully quarantines those people from the rest of us.

[Trbn]

Man, the Horde fanboys tears are a flood. Wonder whats going to happen when they make High Elves playable for the Alliance in the Siege of Silvermoon patch being that 50% of the Horde is Blood Elves. Saurfang is likely being assisted by Anduin to overthrow Sylvanas to restore your precious honor. Either that or have Sylvanas as your leader and be the evil faction you were originally built to be (WC1 and WC2).

hey, I came to troll and shitpost but I made it so cringe so I didn't beleive in it myself