Is buying tokens and boosts from Blizzard considered cheating in WoW?

[Mafic]

It is legalized and monetized cheating.

It's really not that much different from plopping down the $50 you earned mowing lawns over the Summer for a brand new Game Genie.

90% of you whipper snappers probably don't even know what one of those is.

It is good that you recognize that you should not conflate legality and cheating. Indeed, what Blizz has done is made it legal to buy gold via real life money but the action is still cheating as it offers a competitive advantage.

[Laerrus]

If the token did not give players an advantage they would not do it as that is economics 101.

No, they would just go to Susan Express for their gold instead, just like they did before the token.

Personally, I would much rather them go buy a token than get constantly whispered by Susan.

[Mafic]

No, they would just go to Susan Express for their gold instead, just like they did before the token.

Personally, I would much rather them go buy a token than get constantly whispered by Susan.

Either way it just makes things worse for legit players. Let them play on their own self contained servers and have them compete with one another on the auction house for goods instead.

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no this is not cheating but i am not ok with it even if i need to do it to buy all this expensive pots .....

Yeah but legit players like you suffer thought with expensive pots. At some point legit players should realize that cheaters are the ones least complaining about the prices of pots...

[Deficineiron]

Purchase of level boost isn't cheating, for you don't buy the end-game level, nor do you get optimal gear for leveling in current content. It is a shortcut - it is more cheating to purchase a boost with gold from a group of players than that.

Use of Tokens, not really. You don't buy gold from Blizzard, you buy it from other players by selling your token which other players exchange for gametime/Battle Net Currency.

The boost is a service, the token is a tool of trade.

this is a good example of what I call goalpost-moving.

Later in past expansions, when boosts are available which DO go to max level, does that change things?

[Fitsu]

If the token did not give players an advantage they would not do it as that is economics 101. Cheating is using a competitive edge so yes you answered your own question as to what motivates people to do this despite damaging the health of the game and for other players.

Interesting how you completely skipped my question of explaining exactly how it gives an advantage or showing any sort of proof (given that nobody in the competitive scene has gained any sort of advantage from this).

Also how you totally skipped my response regarding how you could get pretty much every relevant BoE within ~30hrs of farming gold. Even though you claim you need to play "16+ hrs/day". Stop spouting nonsense about how xyz is "economics 101" and maybe give something to backup your comments.

Or perhaps you know your wrong, and are just to afraid to admit it so you give generic responses that hold no real argument?

Come on mr. 101, give an answer with some substance.

[Mafic]

this is a good example of what I call goalpost-moving.

Later in past expansions, when boosts are available which DO go to max level, does that change things?

Indeed this is what I am waiting to hear as well. Can't have it both ways because by moving the goal posts it shows it is not a very defensible argument in the first place.

[Lochton]

this is a good example of what I call goalpost-moving.

Later in past expansions, when boosts are available which DO go to max level, does that change things?

Well, when boosts do go max level, means you are at least half way through the expansion and thus the game of choice changes again.

[OMGTwitchTV]

this is a good example of what I call goalpost-moving.

Later in past expansions, when boosts are available which DO go to max level, does that change things?

By the time you boost at the end of the expac, you still have to complete shit, get gear, get good, and clear the raids. Hardly feesible in 2 weeks time, and hardly worth it at that point since the new greens will outweigh the old purples.

[Saverem]

Not cheating. The competitive parts of the game can't really be bought (high end pvp/raiding/m+/etc). You can argue that using the gold you get from selling tokens to buy high ilvl gear from the AH can be considered pay2win, but just having those high ilvl items doesn't mean you're a good player that can get into a competitive guild.

Just because you have gold to pay for a +10 carry doesn't mean you're a good player, in fact, it's quite the opposite.

[OMGTwitchTV]

Not cheating. The competitive parts of the game can't really be bought (high end pvp/raiding/m+/etc). You can argue that using the gold you get from selling tokens to buy high ilvl gear from the AH can be considered pay2win, but just having those high ilvl items doesn't mean you're a good player that can get into a competitive guild.

Just because you have gold to pay for a +10 carry doesn't mean you're a good player, in fact, it's quite the opposite.

Great post. You should explain it to @Mafic.

[Mafic]

Interesting how you completely skipped my question of explaining exactly how it gives an advantage or showing any sort of proof (given that nobody in the competitive scene has gained any sort of advantage from this).

Also how you totally skipped my response regarding how you could get pretty much every relevant BoE within ~30hrs of farming gold. Even though you claim you need to play "16+ hrs/day". Stop spouting nonsense about how xyz is "economics 101" and maybe give something to backup your comments.

Or perhaps you know your wrong, and are just to afraid to admit it so you give generic responses that hold no real argument?

Come on mr. 101, give an answer with some substance.

Actually I addressed in that you are not going to be able to farm $20 dollars worth of gold per hour in game. It is basic math that I feel comfortable with. Also, If you need 30hrs to farm that gold game then in real life you can buy eight times that value of gold via $20 dollars per clip working a job in real life. This is why RMT is considered cheating because the value of real life money invalidates the virtual gold and how it is made in game.

[Fitsu]

Actually I addressed in that you are not going to be able to farm $20 dollars worth of gold per hour in game. It is basic math that I feel comfortable with. Also, If you need 30hrs to farm that gold game then in real life you can buy eight times that value of gold via $20 dollars per clip working a job in real life. This is why RMT is considered cheating because the value of real life money invalidates the virtual gold and how it is made in game.

For one, that's simply not true. on EU a token is worth 175k and costs £17? The Minimum wage is £8/hr and you can easily farm 75k/hr... So on that wage you would earn £16 in 2 hours working or 150k from farming... Not that different. You would need to be earning around £65/hr for real money to have "8 times the value". That's 135k/yr... That is like a top 1% wage. So your first point is flat out wrong.

But that's irreverent because even if that was the case you can't "pay to win" with gold because there's a very small amount you can get from gold. There's a few BoEs and unless your going nuts buying 395 with socket ones then you'll get them all at around 370 - 375 within like 10 hours of gold farming. Even then, if we was for a moment to agree with this insane pay to win notion your talking a net gain of maybe 3 overall ilvls? That's what, 500 dps? How is that Pay to Win?

You can't pay excessive amounts of gold to get a decent: Helm, Shoulders, Neck, Chest, Weapon, Trinkets. Which are all your most important slots.

So I'll ask again, what exactly is this apparent "competitive edge" buying gold is giving people?

Oh on a side note, there are no top players that have bothered to buy these massive BoEs because they simply aren't worth it due to how little the gain would be compared to much cheaper or easier to obtain options which further proves how futile your argument is that the game is pay to win.

Also, tokens have greatly benefited the game because for the most part they have snuffed out a lot of online shops that abused bots & account hacking to gain materials effectively meaning that a player couldn't compete when it came to farming because the mass bots would sell everything at ludicrously low prices so ironically tokens have made the game even more accessible for a player who doesn't want to buy gold because they can again farm materials at a decent value.

[Cel]

This thread is still going?

Why?


Blizzard decides if you are cheating. If you want to look at it personally as cheating? Great, who cares? More power to you. Ignorantly think of it however you want.

In the end Blizzard's opinion on this subject is the only one of value, and they state its not cheating. You obviously wont be banned for using Blizzard's services.

/thread (except I am sure I'll see this pop up in another month's time with people still bitching at each other over a completely pointless topic).

[chrisnumbers]

That argument was made already if you read the thread or you can go a few pages back. Cheating as defined by the merriam webster? That is elementary. Anything that grants a competitive advantage or edge outside the intended purpose of the original game design is cheating.

Imagine what the token would do to the classic WoW and the how the gold would destroy server economies. And server economies are more personal and unique in classic compared to retail.

Once again, the token is not against rules, and therefore not cheating. That's a fact. It's indisputable.

[vashe9]

If only the cheaters had their own separate servers they can play on. That way legit players can play on servers not tainted by the boosts and gold token.

Obvious troll is obvious, in all my wow life, I've bought one token because I had no gold because I stopped for some time. 380K gold at the time, you could earn this in litterally hours if you had a ton of alts, I don't have alts.

You cant buy stuff (or you can the first week, then every BOE is useless) with gold and most importantly, you cant buy skill. But you can buy "PL" which I consider more "cheating" than any gold token... And these happen even without tokens.

Why are you raging ? Because people had to farm less to get gold ? I know a friend who sold a BOE the first day of BFA and got more gold than 3 tokens, with only LUCK. I've yet to loot a single BOE in bfa.

[GrinningMan]

Wow. What an incredibly inciteful post. Unless of course I am smelling sarcasm.

Dripping with sarcasm. Oozing with it.

Honestly I couldn't care less about the issue of 'cheating'. World firsts? High Warlord/Grand Marshal? Gladiator? Who cares.

It's a game people. If you get famous playing it, good on you, but otherwise it's just a game.

[Deleted]

It is legalized and monetized cheating.

It's really not that much different from plopping down the $50 you earned mowing lawns over the Summer for a brand new Game Genie.

90% of you whipper snappers probably don't even know what one of those is.

It's like going to a games competition then paying the organisers to put a game genie in the console to give you extra stats.

[Deleted]

No. Nothing in the game is free. You have to pay to play the game, so you are sort of right. The entire game is "pay to win" because you can't possibly win without paying.

Your mind is so tangled in nonsense that we're never going to convince you of how wrong you are, so there is no point in trying. Just know that the entire rest of the world knows that you are wrong.

You are too close to the game to objectively assess what the rest of the world thinks. The fact that you think getting in game achievements and levels that you didn't accomplish using a currency that is completely outside the in game world is somehow within game rules tells me that.

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do you never take a short cut on a track in racing game? the orginal super mario brothers had secrets / pipes that allowed you to skip levels was that cheating? you are entitle to your opinion but i suspect you will be in the minority

No it wasn't cheating because its part of the in game world.

[Mixxy]

It's like going to a games competition then paying the organisers to put a game genie in the console to give you extra stats.

... You know having a larger amount of Gold doesn't change your stats at all, right?

[Deleted]

It's not cheating, because it's available to everyone and provided by Blizzard.

It's probably pay to win depending on how you define this.