Where BFA goes wrong - a slightly different angle

[melodramocracy]

I'll try to skip the already well - documented azurite issues in this expansion, and move onto a few other items. Maybe.

World PvP:

1. Blizzard really seems to be trying to dip its toe in the water, or gently introduce this element when the better idea would have been to just toss folks in head first. Opting out of it is fine and dandy, but making people truck back to their mainland capital cities to do so.... what was the reasoning behind this? Seems to me that you need to either say "the game is now like this" or not bother, because the current approach simply seems half assed.

2. Kul Tiras and Zandalar are physically too far away from each other. A great opportunity was lost here in terms of having the islands closer together, perhaps able to be traversed by strider or an old school boat ride that didn't simply involve a loading screen, and having the fronts themselves become attractive fight points. Granted, we do see a little bit of this now and then, but it tends to manifest itself with folks taking advantage of folks who just dropped in from a flight point.

3. War Fronts: Why, in gods name, do I not see a single solitary opponent player in either the scenario or the numerous quests that appear leading up to the war front? Maybe this will change when Darkshore arrives, but this is, again, a dropped ball in terms of getting players to fight each other, and pushing the red vs blue thing. War fronts are a completely missed opportunity from a PvP perspective, and they're a completely missed opportunity from even a profession perspective, where players could have been (and should have been) introduced to capacity to collect materials for all manner of siege weapons etc outside of the war front itself. Instead, players quickly discovered that the timer simply proceeds regardless of your factions input.

4. Island missions: Again, back to point 2... why aren't there islands in between the 2 continents where I don't actually engage other players? More on this below however...

Class design and GCD:

I've only tried 3 classes this expansion, but holy shit, every one of those is decidedly worse due to application of GCD to abilities that previously didn't have that constraint. What was the goal here exactly? Waiting for auto attacks to build resources isn't fun. Ever. Waiting for GCD for something that should be an instant isn't fun. I'm trying to think of some advantage that is gained by implementing this, and don't see it. Is it the desire to reduce reliance on macros? Was this change simply for the sake of change?

Miscellaneous:

Professions requiring expulsom for higher recipes feels an awful lot like Cataclysm's chaos orbs, which was one of the dumbest implementations the game has had to professions aside from garrisons in WoD. In case Blizzard is unaware, players enjoy having alts that are capable of running numerous crafting services, but might not be fond of feeling forced to run instanced content on every one of them to do so. Granted, we have the scrapper that can generate expulsom on occasion but that really doesn't help as much as simply removing the silly BoP element.

Mission Tables:

Why is this still even a concept? Non-interactive play in this game simply drives home the time-gating factor, yet, this is the 3rd expansion in a row where, come hell or high water, players are expected to utilize this element or feel set back on some level. The real kicker is that Blizzard had the PERFECT recipe in terms of Withered Training in the last expansion, and decided not to move forward with it.

Hell, current followers could have even been acquired, buffed, and sent out with the player on various island expeditions in this expansion, and it would have been fucking amazing.

/flame away.

[zlygork]

The mission table that we have now is barely a token for those who enjoyed it. There is absolutely no reason to feel forced to do it, haven't even touched it since week 2... And I used the hell out of these im legion to pay my sub with no effort.

I fully agree that solo scenarios like withered training and mage tower challenges are pretty fun options to have when activity is low on the guild or such.

[Lime]

I'll try to skip the already well - documented azurite issues in this expansion, and move onto a few other items. Maybe.

World PvP:

1. Blizzard really seems to be trying to dip its toe in the water, or gently introduce this element when the better idea would have been to just toss folks in head first. Opting out of it is fine and dandy, but making people truck back to their mainland capital cities to do so.... what was the reasoning behind this? Seems to me that you need to either say "the game is now like this" or not bother, because the current approach simply seems half assed.

2. Kul Tiras and Zandalar are physically too far away from each other. A great opportunity was lost here in terms of having the islands closer together, perhaps able to be traversed by strider or an old school boat ride that didn't simply involve a loading screen, and having the fronts themselves become attractive fight points. Granted, we do see a little bit of this now and then, but it tends to manifest itself with folks taking advantage of folks who just dropped in from a flight point.

3. War Fronts: Why, in gods name, do I not see a single solitary opponent player in either the scenario or the numerous quests that appear leading up to the war front? Maybe this will change when Darkshore arrives, but this is, again, a dropped ball in terms of getting players to fight each other, and pushing the red vs blue thing. War fronts are a completely missed opportunity from a PvP perspective, and they're a completely missed opportunity from even a profession perspective, where players could have been (and should have been) introduced to capacity to collect materials for all manner of siege weapons etc outside of the war front itself. Instead, players quickly discovered that the timer simply proceeds regardless of your factions input.

4. Island missions: Again, back to point 2... why aren't there islands in between the 2 continents where I don't actually engage other players? More on this below however...

On Point 1, I kind of get why they did it. They don't want people switching whenever convenient. I do think it was the wrong approach, but quite frankly, I don't know how they'd do it aside from making it cooldown based, which seems like an even worse system.

I agree on Point 2. There really shouldn't be a loading screen between the two. I get why there is now, because of how far they are due to this decision. Ultimately, though, I chalked it up to that it's not a huge issue because sharding would ruin the seamless transition in PvP, like what we currently see.

I do have hope that they've been listening to players who want PvP in Warfronts. I'm usually not hopeful in this regard, but for some reason, I do think it's something they're going to try.

Class design and GCD:

I've only tried 3 classes this expansion, but holy shit, every one of those is decidedly worse due to application of GCD to abilities that previously didn't have that constraint. What was the goal here exactly? Waiting for auto attacks to build resources isn't fun. Ever. Waiting for GCD for something that should be an instant isn't fun. I'm trying to think of some advantage that is gained by implementing this, and don't see it. Is it the desire to reduce reliance on macros? Was this change simply for the sake of change?

They made an April Fools joke about this a long time ago. I'm sure you've seen it, but it was a joke because the idea was so bad. Turns out, they were right.

FF14 gets a bad rap due to it's long GCD, but at the moment, it's flow of abilities should far outshine WoW's thanks to their numerous off-the-GCD abilities they have to weave in. I say "should" because I haven't played it in a while, but I assumed it still works like that.

[Nnyco]

gcd change is overexaggerated as fuck on this forum, its a minor change that people just dont like because you have to change your muscle memory abit

and the complain with table is so minor considerin how lackin and not mandatory the rewards are right now

[Lime]

gcd change is overexaggerated as fuck on this forum, its a minor change that people just dont like because you have to change your muscle memory abit

What would you say the argument for the change was?

[Weeps]

GCD change was to help with world pvp.

Which sucks

[melodramocracy]

gcd change is overexaggerated as fuck on this forum, its a minor change that people just dont like because you have to change your muscle memory abit

and the complain with table is so minor considerin how lackin and not mandatory the rewards are right now

Can you point to a class / spec that you currently run and say "this feels better now that it's slower."? I'm genuinely curious.

[tru]

gcd change is overexaggerated as fuck on this forum, its a minor change that people just dont like because you have to change your muscle memory abit

and the complain with table is so minor considerin how lackin and not mandatory the rewards are right now

Because a system forcing you to play slower is fun?....gotcha

One of the highest apm in the game is what bear druids? Yea sounds fun. Nearly every spec feels similar to a slow we monk rotation you know exactly what to press....
There's no hectic button pressing and little interaction anymore. Yes FF14 system is more sound and fluid than what we have now. And that's sad their combat system is the only thing that kept me from playing the game past the story quests.

[melodramocracy]

On Point 1, I kind of get why they did it. They don't want people switching whenever convenient. I do think it was the wrong approach, but quite frankly, I don't know how they'd do it aside from making it cooldown based, which seems like an even worse system.

I agree, and I get that as well. Still, there seems to be no reason why folks simply couldn't go back to their BfA main bases to switch. It's a pretty trivial detail, but a nagging one nonetheless.

- - - Updated - - -

The mission table that we have now is barely a token for those who enjoyed it. There is absolutely no reason to feel forced to do it, haven't even touched it since week 2... And I used the hell out of these im legion to pay my sub with no effort.

I fully agree that solo scenarios like withered training and mage tower challenges are pretty fun options to have when activity is low on the guild or such.

Objectively, players will acquire pathfinder faster by utilizing the mission table than not. While you certainly aren't "forced" to do anything, those followers could absolutely be utilized in a more compelling fashion. Even the prior bodyguard approaches were more entertaining than what we have now.

[Neverafter]

World PvP:

1. Why do I have to go back to the main capital to Opt in/Opt out of Warmode?
The idea is to make PvP actually mean something. If you are able to just turn it on and off whenever you want, a lot of people would leave it off, gather up all kinds of quests, switch it on, turn the quests in for the extra 10% boost, then turn it back off.

I do agree, however, that maybe there should be a middle ground. Maybe being able to toggle Warmode in major cities? (Racial Capitals and Cities for Expansions like Kultiras or Zandalar).

2. Kul Tiras and Zandalar are physically too far away from each other.

I feel like if they were any closer then they would have to justify in the Lore why they are so close geographically but never engaged in trade or warfare before involvement from the Horde or Alliance. I'm sure they will add areas for people who want to PvP to do so.

3. War Fronts: Why, in gods name, do I not see a single solitary opponent player in either the scenario or the numerous quests that appear leading up to the war front?

Warfronts aren't meant to be PvP. They said all along they may add that in the future, but for now it is purely a PvE activity. As for professions mattering in gather resources and all that, I do think that part of the system should be looked at.

Class design and GCD:

Part of it is macros. Part of it is pacing. When you can hit 1 button to activate potions, trinkets, racials, and abilities and then go into a full rotation, its not exactly compelling gameplay. Now you have to actually think about the order you use abilities in.

Professions requiring expulsom

Players do like having alts that can craft professions not on their mains. Blizzard however, wants players who are crafting materials to be engaged in the activities they are doing. It's part to do with just timing, you can't just buy materials off the AH, send to an alt, make it, send it back. But it also from a logic stance. If I am going to be making raid gear to tackle raid bosses, shouldn't I have to be getting materials from such raid bosses? I dunno, that's how I always looked at it. Regardless, Blizzard wants there to be some barrier to using alts as profession tools. Usually when it comes up in a Q&A they answer something like, well, why do you want alts? Fundamentally, blah blah blah. It boils down to players like easy, developers want you to work for it.

Mission Tables:

Like someone mentioned earlier, mission tables hardly even seem worth it anymore. I may log on when I'm bored at work and do some on my phone, but as far as when I'm actually playing, I can't even tell you the last time I went to the mission table to do them.

[melodramocracy]

World PvP:
Class design and GCD:

Part of it is macros. Part of it is pacing. When you can hit 1 button to activate potions, trinkets, racials, and abilities and then go into a full rotation, its not exactly compelling gameplay. Now you have to actually think about the order you use abilities in.

But you aren't really thinking, as you're still trying to push everything right after a pull, etc.

Professions requiring expulsom

Players do like having alts that can craft professions not on their mains. Blizzard however, wants players who are crafting materials to be engaged in the activities they are doing. It's part to do with just timing, you can't just buy materials off the AH, send to an alt, make it, send it back. But it also from a logic stance. If I am going to be making raid gear to tackle raid bosses, shouldn't I have to be getting materials from such raid bosses? I dunno, that's how I always looked at it. Regardless, Blizzard wants there to be some barrier to using alts as profession tools. Usually when it comes up in a Q&A they answer something like, well, why do you want alts? Fundamentally, blah blah blah. It boils down to players like easy, developers want you to work for it.

Make them BoA then? Is that an acceptable middle ground?

/Excellent back / forth from everyone so far, it's nice to see.

[Neverafter]

But you aren't really thinking, as you're still trying to push everything right after a pull, etc.

That's up to you. I don't know what class you play, but I main a frost dk. So when I'm playing at the top of my game, I've got Orc Racial, Pillar of Frost, Potion, and maybe an on use trinket.

Before, I could macro all or most of that to one button, then immediately go into my rotation.

Now, I try to kind of do pre pot (of coarse), while I am running to get into melee range use Howling Blast, use Pillar of Frost right before I am in range, do a move or two, racial, couple moves, trinkets. From that point on it's pretty much whack-a-mole when something comes off cd.

I haven't raided anything harder than LFR since Nighthold, but I know there are nuances that I have probably missed and that all classes aren't equal when it comes to the GCD change. In my experience, it hasn't been that large of an issue. The classes that I have played (very limted) I haven't noticed a change in the GCD, but like I said, I'm not pusing Mythics, so I concede that at higher levels it may be more of an issue. I just feel people have over exaggerated how impactful the change actually is though.

Make them BoA then? Is that an acceptable middle ground?

I would be perfectly fine with that, Blizzard though seems to only want to do that sort of thing either at the end of an expansion or sometimes not at all. Maybe they have some sort of metrics they can look at that us poor common folk can't, I dunno. Maybe it would affect the economy in some way that I can't foretell, I have no idea. I myself have an army of alts (that I haven't got to play due to work and life issues) so I do wish there were some concessions in this area, but do kind of understand the reasoning.