Has "Lost Honour" Affected Your Respect For Saurfang?

[Super Dickmann]

Why would someone reasonable even treat Anduin with contempt and distrust? Thrall obviously wouldn't. The boy does not wish harm upon anyone unless forced to.

Because he is not the Alliance as a whole. Even Saurfang acknowledged this in saying that there would be no peaceful resolution this time and the Alliance would have their pound of flesh at the end of A Good War. The characters in the story don't know that Anduin is a radiant god who no one in the Alliance will defy and who will bring peace and love if we just let him. No, what they know is they started this war with genocide and people like Genn and Tyrande are rightly pissed at the Horde as a whole. Compromise or surrender at this stage would be the end of the Horde. These same people were in a room not along having Varian inform them of this in clear terms.

Baine and Saurfang should be laughed out of the park in-story for suggesting surrender and for hoping their own side loses and more die to appease their ego respectively.

One of Saurfang's most consistent traits is his complete abdication from any responsibility. He spares Anduin, but he also doesn't warn Anduin of the trap that he views as so dishonorable it's worth quitting the Horde over. A lot of apologists forget this, but Saurfang didn't even quit because of the Blight, he quit because the idea of blowing up an evacuated city was ideologically offensive to him. He wants to get rid of Sylvanas and bring 'his' Horde back, whatever that is, but he doesn't want to do anything until the God-King grants him freedom.

[Wildmoon]

Because he is not the Alliance as a whole. Even Saurfang acknowledged this in saying that there would be no peaceful resolution this time and the Alliance would have their pound of flesh at the end of A Good War. The characters in the story don't know that Anduin is a radiant god who no one in the Alliance will defy and who will bring peace and love if we just let him. No, what they know is they started this war with genocide and people like Genn and Tyrande are rightly pissed at the Horde as a whole. Compromise or surrender at this stage would be the end of the Horde. These same people were in a room not along having Varian inform them of this in clear terms.

Baine and Saurfang should be laughed out of the park in-story for suggesting surrender and for hoping their own side loses and more die to appease their ego respectively.

One of Saurfang's most consistent traits is his complete abdication from any responsibility. He spares Anduin, but he also doesn't warn Anduin of the trap that he views as so dishonorable it's worth quitting the Horde over. A lot of apologists forget this, but Saurfang didn't even quit because of the Blight, he quit because the idea of blowing up an evacuated city was ideologically offensive to him. He wants to get rid of Sylvanas and bring 'his' Horde back, whatever that is, but he doesn't want to do anything until the God-King grants him freedom.

That's beside the point though. Why would you hold contempt for such a boy though? It does not have anything with stop waging war.

[Super Dickmann]

That's beside the point though. Why would you hold contempt for such a boy though? It does not have anything with stop waging war.

Because this teenager who doesn't know shit about shit and has never given anything in his life was lecturing 'muh honor' in the flesh, Saurfang, on how to reclaim orcish honor. Obviously Saurfang would tell him to go fuck himself.

That this is later exactly what happens is as funny as it is sad.

[Gunnery Sgt Hartman]

All these fucking edgelords, holy shit. Saurfang has only gotten better.

My thoughts exactly... At least some of the crap are somewhat entertaining to read.

[Freaking Frumpy Frak]

Guess what ? He had 20 opportunities to behead Sylvanas in Lordaeron alone.

That's a great way to destroy the Horde without achieving anything else.

We don't know if he's even strong enough to kill her temporarily, let alone kill her and prevent her from coming back.

He needs to gather enough support among the Horde so that he can actually remove her from power.
He needs someone loyal to him to take Sylvanas' place within the Forsaken so they don't rebel or fracture from infighting.
He needs to kill Sylvanas' Val'kyr so she can't be rezzed or find another way to remove her from the picture.
He needs to remove everyone loyal to Sylvanas from power so the Horde doesn't break into a civil war.
He needs to find an actual warchief to replace Sylvanas (he would be a good fit but I'm sure he's too humble to consider himself a worthy candidate).

If he doesn't do all of these things, the Horde will just shatter.

[Wildmoon]

Because this teenager who doesn't know shit about shit and has never given anything in his life was lecturing 'muh honor' in the flesh, Saurfang, on how to reclaim orcish honor. Obviously Saurfang would tell him to go fuck himself.

That this is later exactly what happens is as funny as it is sad.

Just because he hasn't commited atrocities like Saurfang does not mean he does not know the concept of honor though. On personality level, Anduin is set up in such a way that unless you are fucked in the head like Sylvanas or twilight cultists then you can't really hate him as a person.

[Super Dickmann]

Just because he hasn't commited atrocities like Saurfang does not mean he does not know the concept of honor though. On personality level, Anduin is set up in such a way that unless you are fucked in the head like Sylvanas or twilight cultists then you can't really hate him as a person.

On an in-story level this is the first time Saurfang sees him. Anduin's still a teenager and it's not about his committing atrocities, it's that he simply lacks experience and he's not an orc, so he can't put himself in Saurfang's shoes. Saurfang doesn't scoff at him out of hate, he treats him with mocking disdain because Anduin pretends to have a frame of reference that he doesn't really have. Then he pulls a 180 and is enlightened by Anduin, but that's beside the point.

[Wildberry]

The mmo champion forums are sylvannas fanboy territory after all

If they're Sylvanas fanboy territory, why was Saurfang beating her pretty handily in a poll prior to Lost Honor?

[Itisamuh]

Unchanged. I was with Sylvanas from the start. Nothing against Saurfang but Sylvanas better represents the Horde that I like.

[steelballfc]

'to the better' ? I don't know anyone who consider that point

won't the draenei have to first face the crimes they did by bringing extinction to countless planets (Velen says he lost count how many planets burning legion destroyed chasing them) in first place instead of stand and fight them like what literally their lightforged brothers did ?

- - - Updated - - -

guess i was wrong, seems quite few had more respect from that cinematic, oh well it is fantasy world anyway, u have ur own opinion

give this Horde Symbol, a cookie.

[Xaviaton]

Some people might be mad about Saurfang's personal issues, but I (and I assume others) would be willing to overlook this entirely, perhaps even embrace it, if sorting them out didn't involve the Alliance.

I actually agree with this. While I could agree with this "I hoped Anduin would stop her" thought due to Saurfang not wanting to actually pick up arms against the Horde, "Lost Honour" should have been a different sort of turning point. When Anduin says "I cannot stop her alone", Saurfang's thought (in my opinion) should not be "okay let's team up" but "Obviously you are weak so if the Horde is to be saved I need to break out of here and stop Sylvanas myself."

[Deleted]

With all his flaws, I still respect the guy. I'm going to be so happy if Saurfang gets to "cleave" Sylvanas' head off. But it doesn't matter how sylvanas gets killed, her time is nearly up, I hope.

[Doffen]

It's a game, so no.

[Deleted]

It is no secret that with the arrival of "Lost Honour" that a lot of people's perceptions of Saurfang have swayed

Bullshit coming from a Sylvanas fanboy. Still in denial and desperately trying to save your Lich Queen?

[Astalnar]

I lost respect for Blizzard.

[Deleted]

Bullshit coming from a Sylvanas fanboy. Still in denial and desperately trying to save your Lich Queen?

Hmm still salty that Saurfang's approval rating has plummeted since this cinematic has come out, even with all his Alliance support huh? Well colour me surprised

[Aucald]

This warning is simply an attempt to curb the current outbreak of bad disposition and rancor due to the heightened passions caused by this faction war. Remember that your fellow posters are real people behind their screens, too - it's fine to have different opinions, but let's be respectful and constructive in our discussions and debates.

[KrakHed]

because Anduin pretends to have a frame of reference that he doesn't really have. Then he pulls a 180 and is enlightened by Anduin, but that's beside the point.

Enlightened? I think Anduin lacking a frame of reference to fully understand Saurfang is literally the point of why Anduin's plea works. Other than the admission that Saurfang can't rely on him, Anduin is another young man who has never truly known war headed for his first battle. Begging for Saurfang's help, because "he can't beat her" despite being very much having the means to beat her. Apparently in "weeks".

Lost Honor starts with Anduin vocalizing his fear of losing his "War for Peace" and having it become "just another war". This is what Saurfang can understand, because that's what happened to Saurfang. Saurfang looks at Anduin, too afraid to bloody his hands but who will inevitably be forced to.

Anduin not having the frame of reference to understand Saurfang is something Anduin wants to preserve, and something that makes him sympathetic to Saurfang. He's someone who shouldn't have to go through this shit. No one should.

WoW is written by sickeningly optimistic people.

[Super Dickmann]

Enlightened? I think Anduin lacking a frame of reference to fully understand Saurfang is literally the point of why Anduin's plea works. Other than the admission that Saurfang can't rely on him, Anduin is another young man who has never truly known war headed for his first battle. Begging for Saurfang's help, because "he can't beat her" despite being very much having the means to beat her. Apparently in "weeks".

If that is their intent, then that really fails to endear me to Saurfang all the same. We already have a surrogate son figure, someone who's a victim of this war with no place to go but forced to go on, attached to many of the same principles as Saurfang and looking up to him for answers because he doesn't know what to do. That's Zappy. Saurfang's ending in Old Soldier is that he'll stand by the Horde because there's more than Sylvanas to it and people like Zekhan need someone like him to look up to.

Except that moment is gutted by what we learn later. Saurfang was willing to let memeboi and the other soldiers die on the off chance that Anduin defeated Sylvanas. He ditches Zappyboi and what he represents and without Anduin he would've remained a moping sadsack in a cell instead of one in a swamp. It's Anduin appealing to him and letting him go that has him change. He's inextricably tied to Anduin as the point where he decides to bring in 'his' Horde, because he left his own Horde and his own Horde left him. It's an appalling narrative servicing only Anduin in this arrangement. Everyone else - Saurfang, Genn and the Horde comes out worse than they did before.

[Doffen]

Hmm still salty that Saurfang's approval rating has plummeted since this cinematic has come out, even with all his Alliance support huh? Well colour me surprised

One more got more respect for Saurfang than less as of now(as much respect you can get/lose to a fictional character) Even the two polls made show that they are very much at 50/50.

Plummeted is not a word who describe that, at all.