Which side is canon at ICC?

[Archmage Alodi]

Paragon did it.

[Deleted]

It's not a assumption it's written there, he challenged them, just that, no more no less.

The only person making wild assumption here is you OP.

Read Chronicles and close the thread.

- - - Updated - - -



Jaina, Illidan, Malfurion, Tyrande, Rexxar, Thrall (more or less), Khadgar, this will take days should I really keep going?

Basically there is a infinite amount of older characters that have a near infinite amount of story to be told.

Lore is basically the only thing keeping Blizzard alive today, there are many more capable and better developers out there, with products as good as the ones Blizzard is currently providing. Yet lore is holding them back (CD Project Red).

This trend is only made more visible by the fact that Blizzard is recreating old success as remasters.

Chronicles doesn't say much so we can throw your opinion out of the window too

[Nnyco]

That's interesting... besides Sylvanas, what relevant WoW character is actually left? And by relevant, I mean characters introduced in WC1 to WC3. Because that's canonical material, not the crapshoot that's been introduced since 2006.

beside your stupid comment about any character not bein relevant who got added after wc3, we still have jaina, rokhan, voljin, illidan, rexxar and more

Chronicles doesn't say much so we can throw your opinion out of the window too

truely spoken like someone that is clueless

[FelPlague]

Seriously? Does Horde even matter at all without bringing in faction conflict if there are no bad guys to kill?

Horde did most of the stuff in vanilla actually, aswell as in i think cataclysm...

[Aeula]

The Horde one, obviously.

Stormwind Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Night Elves and Draenei have next to nothing to do with the scourge.

Blood Elves and Forsaken had their entire culture shaped by the scourge. Obviously they and their allies in Horde are going to be the ones going full ham against Arthas.

[Xloudman]

Paragon did it.

Ensidia #GameMechanics

[Beerbill Society]

The Horde one, obviously.

Stormwind Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Night Elves and Draenei have next to nothing to do with the scourge.

Blood Elves and Forsaken had their entire culture shaped by the scourge. Obviously they and their allies in Horde are going to be the ones going full ham against Arthas.

Someone should replay Reign of Chaos, just saying.

Ask Muradin what he thinks about that.

And humans are humans, Hillsbrand, Tarren Mill, Scholomance belong to humans, Forsaken where humans, desolated council members families still alive in Stormwind and historical debt that SW has with Lordaeron that helped it's reconstruction after the second war.

Jaina as actively part of it, but hey let's ignore all that for the sake of argument.

Just a heads up Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, Goblins don't have anything to do with Scourge too. Easy to strawman a narrative right.

[keyboardshinobi]

As the chronicle puts it, both sides played a strong hand in his defeat, but the honor goes to a mixed band of horde and Alliance heroes who took Arthas down

[Easo]

OP, what is wrong with you? Chronicles clearly stated that both sides took part in the victory, as have been stated by others in this thread.. Just deal with it instead of the fantasy Alliance bias supposedly going on.
What the fuck is that "us vs them mentality" you have?!

[AlmightyGerkin]

Tirion was exiled from Lorderon for protecting an Orc from humans. He's not even remotely linked to the alliance. He's was also best pals with Eitrigg.

Fixed it for you.

[Raelbo]

*That's because you want to interpret that way, because he was allied with the alliance heroes in Wrathgate as well, they really did it up to interpretation didn't they?

It has nothing to do with how I want to interpret it. It has to do with a logical analysis of known facts.

The alliance and horde were never "allies". They had a common enemy at the wrathgate and pragmatically put their differences aside to deal with the immediate threat.

At best you might say that they were briefly allied. It might not be entirely technically incorrect to call them his former allies, but, really, of all the possible ways to describe them, it's still a lousy description. In other words, if the author had been intending to tell us that he fought against a group of alliance heroes (ala the deathbringer encounter from the alliance perspective) one would expect the author to have used a different description. It seems pretty obvious that the intent was to say that at least some of those he fought against were Horde.

The source i posted is about Chronicles 3 that they released recently, if for some weird turn of events Blizzard wanted to retcon their shit because they don't care about their open horde bias it's fine, but even in the new lore is never stated that the Horde defeated Dranosh alone or was part of it as Horde entity, but as members of Ashen Verdict.

Yes, that's fine, and if you'd read what I wrote, that would be my first choice. Which means that neither the alliance nor the horde version of events in ICC is actually canon. Somehow though, you seem to have completely ignored the part I wrote in italics: "if you have to choose 1 of the ingame versions of events" then by logic, it would have to be the horde version since we know he fought against horde.

And people call alliance players whiny, Saurfang and Varian interaction is amazing and people went ape shit because who killed his son, it doesn't even matter.

Dude, calling me whiny is just puerile. As I already stated, it doesn't really bother me what the canonical version is. I have absolutely no need for it to have been Horde, and as I already stated, my interpretation is that the group was a combination of horde and alliance champions based on what makes the most sense from analysing the facts that we do have at our disposal.

[

Alliance gunship was destroyed in Stormheim, your queen cuckold did it with like 3 bats.

In there are many Gunships I thought they were all the same but nope.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Gunship

You should really read your references before quoting them.

The Alliance gunship used in Icecrown and during the battle at ICC is the Skybreaker
The Alliance gunship destroyed in Stormheim in the unprovoked attack on Sylvanas which resulted in the current war, was the Skyfire. It's the same gunship that was used to assault Deathwing.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Even back then we considered the alliance version canon because it's the one where something more interesting happens that also affects more characters.

[Louz]

There there... Alliance aren't relevant in PvP and PvE... or any gameplay in general since you guys have to play without warzone enabled... But daddy Blizzard will make sure he will write you as the greatest heroes that ever lived, don't worry!

Hordelet so triggered he had to start two different threads on the literally same topic.

Loling out loud irl.

[Beerbill Society]

*Snip*

Yes, that's fine, and if you'd read what I wrote, that would be my first choice. Which means that neither the alliance nor the horde version of events in ICC is actually canon. Somehow though, you seem to have completely ignored the part I wrote in italics: "if you have to choose 1 of the ingame versions of events" then by logic, it would have to be the horde version since we know he fought against horde.

Yeah I ignored it, because you don't get to choose. I'm here to discuss lore not fanfic.

In my first deliberation I haven't had access to the quote from Chronicles 3, only after I posted it, so currently I believe his defeat was the outcome of a joint force of alliance and horde under the banner of Ashen Verdict.

Dude, calling me whiny is just puerile. As I already stated, it doesn't really bother me what the canonical version is. I have absolutely no need for it to have been Horde, and as I already stated, my interpretation is that the group was a combination of horde and alliance champions based on what makes the most sense from analysing the facts that we do have at our disposal.

It wasn't for you, but if the shoe fits...

Just saying there is not point in faction bias in this event, at least not enough to make a post about it, that's is my opinion.

You should really read your references before quoting them.

The Alliance gunship used in Icecrown and during the battle at ICC is the Skybreaker
The Alliance gunship destroyed in Stormheim in the unprovoked attack on Sylvanas which resulted in the current war, was the Skyfire. It's the same gunship that was used to assault Deathwing.

I've read it, my previous comment was posted without the knowledge about the gunship article.
Immediately after I went to look for it and created that post edit, where I link the reference.

Maybe it wasn't clear enough that it was a post edit and even my writing looks terrible on it. So I apologise.

I meant to show that many other Gunships were destroyed over the years and were completely different from the ones used in Icecrown.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly it would be more interesting lorewise if the Alliance version of Dranosh happened because the Horde lore part can also happen concurrently (as he retrieves his son's body), while if the Horde did win, there is no alternative for the Alliance continuing upwards in the citadel.
But if War Crimes mentions Saurfang fighting him, then that is canon I guess.

Only mentions he issued a challenge, if you remember the fight he indeed does that to both factions and render people useless during the whole fight. (ICC had a whole crap of people who loved their monologues.)

Even if it is vague, Chronicles address that alliance members were present in the fact too.

[Malikath]

It's still in game so it's still canon

while no, that's not true.
it is canon that the horde stopped aiding in the war against the lich king after wrathgate, totc was an attempt to broker a new peace treaty and co-operation between the factions again since varian hadn't yet followed through with his proclamation of war against the horde made at the end of the battle for the undercity.
the fact this storyline's terminus is the alliance version of the instance along with chronicle 3 are why the alliance's version of the instance is canon, not just the fact it exists in game.

after all there's half the starting undead quests that have been de-canonized since cata.