The expansion saw strong participation in value-added services.

[Mayia]

Funny, since everyone complaining that "WoW is dying" are using that same logic : "I saw x post, video of people ranting, hence everyone must be mad and quit"

you realize people who are mad but are still playing do post videos? people who quit are far less likely to keep showing up to do something about a game they've cut your example is wrong just like you, good job.

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Ahhh, the Internet - where hyperbole and anecdotes are considered perfectly fine substitutes for actual data

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This forum is FULL of people who apparently "unsubbed months ago" yet still post here regularly about exactly why they dislike BFA.

and your evidence of that is? talking out your butt?
i guess "Full" = 789 people? Does that sound right? lol.

[Arenis]

This call shows little to be optimistic about from a consumer/player perspective:

World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth set a new day-one franchise record with more than 3.4 million units sold-through.

Which probably means their marketing did a damn good job at advertising their product. I also wouldn't be surprised if the increase in digital (instant) versus physical (delayed) games sold acts as a confounder to this (source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/190225/digital-and-physical-game-sales-in-the-us-since-2009/):

World of Warcraft engagement grew strongly quarter-over-quarter.

Comparing an arbitrary measurement that represents player engagement (that they can condition in any way or shape that is feasible to them and are allowed to change quarter on quarter, as long as they don't lie about it) between the end of an expansion and the very start of the next one :/. A new one that brings unprecedented amounts of RNG mechanics screaming "bad luck, try again" with it. Zero metrics on any type of player enjoyment, feedback, polling, sentiment.. Nothing. Even though it could be easily gathered and shown as a very strong supplement of game health. They also aggregate all forms of monetization in their results, making any form of interpolating individual game metrics near impossible. For a very optimistic and 'enthusiastic' developer/publisher, they show quite the uncertainty about mentioning individual game metrics apart from a handful of very vague terms.

The expansion saw strong participation in value-added services.

Mounts, pets, race changes, boosts... This is not a positive thing for us. It's a forebode that this will only be extorted more and more in the years to come as they present it as a positive to their shareholders.

[Xalea]

How else do you expect them to spin a 60% sub loss since August? They're still in damage control mode and scrambling to rush 8.1 out. The problem is they're still unwilling to do the things necessary to keep people subbed (I won't list them all here, we all know what they are). Good lord even random internet peeps know how to stop the sub loss, look at these forums, Wowhead, the official forums, etc. People post very well-written comments making suggestions that continuously fall on deaf ears.

The problem is Acti-Blizz has $52 billion so of course WoW won't ever "die" it'll just be total rubbish to play.

[Deleted]

And the forums is of course representing the mass of players accurately. As does people posting on YT.

You don't even need to go that far. That poll says nothing about satisfaction. It asks a question to the universe of people who have unsubbed. Everytime a poll has been created asking if you are satisfied or not, the unsatisfied have always been the minority. That is why that poll is the only "ammo" they go to progress their drama.

[Thetruth1400]

It depends on your perspective - they had noted income from WoW was at an all time high a few earnings calls ago...

I don't doubt that they're making money hand over fist at all; the cash shop and token systems have been huge money makers for them.

WoW as a healthy, thriving game though, that I doubt is doing well.

[kail]

You get a guaranteed gold amount when you place your token on AH. You can't cancel. You are right - I need proof to corroborate my claim. Thinking ain't cutting it.

And yet there are moments where it token sales are disabled and prices fluctuate. You think blizz is trying to micromanage the economy via fixing token prices? And why would blizz want to offer real money value for some digital currency in their game they have no use of?

Get fucking real.

[Niwes]

I like the game, and I'm supporting it. That is it, and I see no reason NOT to do that just because somebody on some forum doesn't like something about it

See, the problem is that people who still enjoy WoW pay for it and support it, and people who keep whining on forums....also keep supporting it because they can't just stop playing something, even though they don't like it. Sure, you can now give me a lecture on how criticizing the game while still playing it is good for its longevity and what not, but the reality is you aren't showing them you don't like the game by continuously playing and paying for it. Even if that's not the case for you, there are plenty others doing the exact thing I described.

When I don't like the game...I just quit it. I would recommend doing the same. Or else you're supporting them as much as I do, only you do it while constantly whining and feeling miserable playing the game.

I'm starting to think some people believe themselves martyrs. Just do something you enjoy instead of griefing in virtual world, while wasting your own free time during which you could be having more fun.

i agree to over 90% what you said. totally the same oppinion.

but you missed the point. thats not what i said or whats going on here.

my statement was: when you give blizz a lot of money for literally doing nothing, or help them earning much money for cheap, cost effective stuff, you not only support that mentality, but you also show them that they should do more of that stuff, instead invest in content or a good game.

here is where you fail: you think you support them and by supporting them, you support the game that you and i love. but you do not support them. you do not help ion hazzikostas to make a better game. you support the walllet of the share holders, that see how less money blizz invested and how much they gained. and the first step of the management will be telling ion, that he have an even lower budget, because blizz can earn the same profit with lower investment in wow.

this is not good. feeding them, for nearly no investment, with money for high priced stuff, IS NOT GOOD. not for me. not for you. not for ion.

[HuxNeva]

The Gold from Tokens is not generated by the game, someone has to farm that gold and then buy a token in the Auction House.

What if I told you all gold is 'generated by the game'

[fengosa]

i agree to over 90% what you said. totally the same oppinion.

but you missed the point. thats not what i said or whats going on here.

my statement was: when you give blizz a lot of money for literally doing nothing, or help them earning much money for cheap, cost effective stuff, you not only support that mentality, but you also show them that they should do more of that stuff, instead invest in content or a good game.

here is where you fail: you think you support them and by supporting them, you support the game that you and i love. but you do not support them. you do not help ion hazzikostas to make a better game. you support the walllet of the share holders, that see how less money blizz invested and how much they gained. and the first step of the management will be telling ion, that he have an even lower budget, because blizz can earn the same profit with lower investment in wow.

this is not good. feeding them, for nearly no investment, with money for high priced stuff, IS NOT GOOD. not for me. not for you. not for ion.

I paid for a character xfer recently because I wanted to run mythic dungeons with my guild mates and I want to do that because it's quality content that I enjoy. It really has nothing to do with shareholders at all.

[Cracked]

Could we have a mod fix the title/OP.

In the front page it says:


Or are we assuming that engagement is with the shop? Because the only thing they released was that boat mount with the 6 month sub.

If anything this is proof that the haters are hatin and WoW is fine as always.

Of course it grew quarter-over-quarter lol, Q2 was Legion draught and Q3 was new xpack launch. Clearly people were going to spend more time in game, regardless of other variables.

[Aggrophobic]

I'm personally buying a lot more blizz store goodies just to vote with my wallet. Love BfA, got 2 pets and 1 mount in the last 2 weeks.

Yeah, thats what the OP was saying. Less and less people are playing the game and the few that are left pay more for it.

[Deleted]

You don't even need to go that far. That poll says nothing about satisfaction. It asks a question to the universe of people who have unsubbed. Everytime a poll has been created asking if you are satisfied or not, the unsatisfied have always been the minority. That is why that poll is the only "ammo" they go to progress their drama.

Please provide links to those polls with the majority of satisfied BfA players. I’m curious.

[Oblider]

It's been dying since 2004...

After all, we've been dying from our first breath.

[Deleted]

And yet there are moments where it token sales are disabled and prices fluctuate. You think blizz is trying to micromanage the economy via fixing token prices? And why would blizz want to offer real money value for some digital currency in their game they have no use of?

Get fucking real.

You mean moments when Blizz has to micromanage the game economy even more to avoid a stall in token purchases? Can be done with simple triggers based on simple data too. Why would they want people to spend money on tokens ... no idea how to tell you ... I need to get fucking real (in your world) it seems and I am not interested in that, even though fantasy worlds do appeal to me. Not your though. Sry.

[Deleted]

Blizzard savagely rips players off for their "services" and then say that a character boost is the same price as a game to make people think twice about buying them, because clearly you want to incentivise players to NOT buy a service you are selling as a business...

The reality is they know that there are a LOT of players that will pay a ton of money on all the shit like boosts plus pets.

It's actually quite shocking when you look at how much players will spend on whatever so called optional stuff you can add to a game. People have spent a silly amount on Star Citizen, although I guess you can say they just want to support vapourware and when I played Mechwarrior Online it was not uncommon to see players spend over 200 Euros/Dollars on mech packs.

The only thing that doesn't really make sense is the token system, as the last few guilds I've been in have had many people that have covered a year if not more game time by farming gold through various means. Unless the subscription fees are no longer considered important and it's all about the number of units sold plus "services" thereafter.

[Deleted]

Please provide links to those polls with the majority of satisfied BfA players. I’m curious.

I have better things to do than search forum history for you. If you had more ammo, you would be throwing it around, everone knows that.

[HuxNeva]

I'd say you deliberately missed his point

I get what he is saying but we have been over this before. Blizzard is rather 'frugal' when it comes to splashing out dev resources on WoW, yet here we find them developing a complete market making arbitrage facility with several control safeguards, yet we are somehow to believe that they are not going to use any of it, while at the same time every game dev knows that economy control is one of the hardest things to get right/maintain in mmo's.

It's like discovering your most stingy uncle suddenly splashed out on an SLI dual 2080ti rig and then only playing minesweeper.

[Marrilaife]

The only thing that doesn't really make sense is the token system, as the last few guilds I've been in have had many people that have covered a year if not more game time by farming gold through various means. Unless the subscription fees are no longer considered important and it's all about the number of units sold plus "services" thereafter.

Token system makes A LOT of sense because:
- there are many people from poor countries that would rather farm gold to buy their gametime / expansions / other blizzard games
- there are hardcore nolifers that spend all day playing wow and they boost m+ / raids / arenas / etc. now they can do it legally and spend that excess gold on extra goodies from hearthstone packs or overwatch lootboxes
- there are rich whales that would rather throw $$$ at the game to buy boosts, boes and whatever else so they can parade with top gear without any effort put, same with expensive mounts and whatnot

Circulating gold from whales to farmers and boosters gives Blizzard 5$ gain from every transaction (whale pays 20$ gold farmer gets 15$ balance back).

It also legalized goldselling and boost selling competing with all the black market, since years of banning didn't seem to get rid of it.

[kamuimac]

Blizzard savagely rips players off for their "services" and then say that a character boost is the same price as a game to make people think twice about buying them, because clearly you want to incentivise players to NOT buy a service you are selling as a business...

The reality is they know that there are a LOT of players that will pay a ton of money on all the shit like boosts plus pets.

It's actually quite shocking when you look at how much players will spend on whatever so called optional stuff you can add to a game. People have spent a silly amount on Star Citizen, although I guess you can say they just want to support vapourware and when I played Mechwarrior Online it was not uncommon to see players spend over 200 Euros/Dollars on mech packs.

The only thing that doesn't really make sense is the token system, as the last few guilds I've been in have had many people that have covered a year if not more game time by farming gold through various means. Unless the subscription fees are no longer considered important and it's all about the number of units sold plus "services" thereafter.

no its actually not shocking at all .

people in west are earning relatively a lot of money and dont mind to throw away 50-100 euro/dollar a month on stupid stuff .

maybe if idea of spending 50 euro a month on in game goods seems really this bizzare to some people its time to spend time on pursuing different carrier then burger flippers and spending less time on "progressing" virtual bosses and spend time on "progressing" irl which "drop" you your salary each month instead of pixels that you will replace every 2-3 months.

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Yeah, thats what the OP was saying. Less and less people are playing the game and the few that are left pay more for it.

this is complete bs. you pay for sub as much as you paid 14 years ago

if anything im honestly surpised that wow sub isnt around 20$ already monthly because inflation.

you pay relatively less then you paid when wow was launched.

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I don't get the warfront/island expedition thing.

Okay yes i do understand that there is probably a big quiet majority of casuals in the game that does this content, but... a lot?

How does someone enjoy autowin content?.. like.. for real? sure the first time because its new fine but repeatedly? q up and always win??

heh every time i read comment like this im like ... "have you ever played clickerheroes ? " try it and you will see how addicting it can be ^^

[Marston]

Well, I unsubbed because the game became boring. But I have done that since classic. Legion was actually the only expansion (including classic) where my sub never ran out. But even there I paused, it's just that I got the urge to play again before the sub ran out.

I am sure I will be back in a few months anyway. I am already hyped for the next raid and especially the next Mega-Dungeon.

As far as Cash Shop stuff goes, I haven't bought anything besides presents for other people in there (and also received presents). I only paid for 2 Server transfers since release of the game. I can totally understand if people like the mounts and pets and want them - heck, I do the same in some mobile games or other games.